Bills D probably has 1 more year of running it back - and be good

[BillsFan130]

8 hours ago, appoo said:

That’s a hyperbolic way of describing the defense. It was flat out good when they had Von. Again look at the chiefs game or even the first Dolphins game 

Oh the bills defence is great every regular season, I’m not denying that haha . Only to fall flat on their face in the playoffs though every year.

 

Same thing in 2021. Great against the chiefs in the regular season- hold them to 20 points and force 4 turnovers. Only to let up 42 and choke 13 seconds away in the playoffs.

 

We have a pretty good sample size under MCD/Frazier that the bills can’t slow down great QBs in the playoffs. It’s not like getting crushed by Burrow is a one off type of game.

Edited January 27, 2023 by BillsFan130

[4th&long]

This defense feasts on weak teams. So stats can and do lie. If our offense gets a good jump on a team the D can go off. But when it’s a close game or they are playing a good team the D is a no show. It is usually like a 34-31 type of game, the O has to play lites out to pull out a win. When was the last time we won a game because of our D? The O didn’t show up Sunday and the D certainly was not capable of bailing them out! 
 

anybody remember the Denver playoff game in Buffalo during the Super Bowl years? Carlton Bailey picked off a pass for a td. The bills win the game 10-3 or something like that? That’sa good D bailing out the offense on a bad day. 
 

This current defense could do no such thing! if the offense don’t show up it’s a bad day at the office! No playmakers or no one put in position to make plays.

[Bferra13]

14 hours ago, appoo said:

I think where I’d like more complexity is disguising coverages, rather than anything to do with the front.  But that may have been partially why they let the safeties coach go

They were with Von. I mean you saw what they did to the chiefs right?

You act like they just steamrolled the Chiefs lol. Last drive stop win, and yeah that was nice. But October wins ain't the same as January ones. Different ballgame. My bar is set pretty low for this d going forward. To the point where I'd be fine just putting every asset into the oline and wr. 

[Charles Romes]

43 minutes ago, 4th&long said:

This defense feasts on weak teams. So stats can and do lie. If our offense gets a good jump on a team the D can go off. But when it’s a close game or they are playing a good team the D is a no show. It is usually like a 34-31 type of game, the O has to play lites out to pull out a win. When was the last time we won a game because of our D? The O didn’t show up Sunday and the D certainly was not capable of bailing them out! 
 

anybody remember the Denver playoff game in Buffalo during the Super Bowl years? Carlton Bailey picked off a pass for a td. The bills win the game 10-3 or something like that? That’sa good D bailing out the offense on a bad day. 
 

This current defense could do no such thing! if the offense don’t show up it’s a bad day at the office! No playmakers or no one put in position to make plays.

 

D shut down Lamar and the Ravens in the wind/sleet playoff game ‘20

[mjt328]

The Bills championship window has been open for 3 years now, and each year has shown the exact same trend:

1.  Both the offense and defense rank Top 5 in the NFL during the regular season

2.  Facing an elite QB in the playoffs, the defense totally crumbles to pieces and lets up 30+ points (happened all three years)

3.  The offense eventually slumps in the postseason due to poor blocking (happened in two of three years)

 

These are the hills that we must get over, in order to win the Super Bowl.

 

Thus far, the front office has seen our pass rush as the solution.  That's why we've poured so many resources into the D-Line.  After the first Kansas City loss, we drafted Groot/Boogie in the first two rounds.  After the second, we signed Von Miller.  Neither of these plans worked, and honestly I think our pass rush was worse against Cincinnati than either of the previous two games.  

 

It's time to go the other route, and work on improving the O-Line.  If we continue to pour resources into the defense and they continue to fail us, then we need to give the offense an opportunity.  Let them just try to outscore the opposition.  Fix the pass blocking and add another downfield weapon, and I think we can score 30-35 against the best teams in the league.  Besides, if Josh Allen is the most important piece on the team, we need to ensure he stays healthy.

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by mjt328

[Governor]

13 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

So we’re saying we have to wait through another statistically impressive seventeen game season just to find out that once again our team isn’t good enough to get to the Super Bowl? Fabulous! 

It’s what our fans do. Excuses, excuses, and more excuses.

 

If that’s where we’re headed I don’t want to see another draft pick go to that side of the ball for 3 seasons. The defense can’t be worse than it is right now in big games.

 

”If” this and “If” that. None of those things will happen. White is totally cooked. Von likely has nothing left. Hyde? Certainly not expecting much there. Hamlin? Really?

Edited January 27, 2023 by Governor

[Trogdor]

15 hours ago, appoo said:

Jordan would have been replaced by Damar Hamlin, and will now likely be replaced by Christian Benford, an inexperienced but athletic and big player at 6-1, 205, with a 4.55 40.

I keep seeing this as though Benford wasn't the better of the two rookies when healthy. He is more polished in zone and showed good athleticism. He also didn't need to grab in coverage so he didn't make stupid penalties. Why put him at safety when corner is still a weakness? 

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, BearNorth said:

This is Von's second ACL surgery, he's 33, will he be the same player, capable of playing at the same level?

 

Case in point - his running mate Odell Beckham.  White is not the same player a year after his ACL surgery.

DEs have historically produced far deeper into their careers - into their mid 30s - than players at other positions outside of QBs and some o-line positions. Bruce Smith’s best years were 1995-1998, and he had knee injuries too. Moreover, it sounds from what I’ve read that this was a pretty clean acl tear with little surrounding damage. I actually expect him to be 100 percent by October at the latest.

[damj]

We'lll still have Frazier and his defense is very good 95% of the time.

 

The problem is that when we absolutely need someone to make a play, they often fail. Perfect example: 13 seconds

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Oh the bills defence is great every regular season, I’m not denying that haha . Only to fall flat on their face in the playoffs though every year.

 

Same thing in 2021. Great against the chiefs in the regular season- hold them to 20 points and force 4 turnovers. Only to let up 42 and choke 13 seconds away in the playoffs.

 

We have a pretty good sample size under MCD/Frazier that the bills can’t slow down great QBs in the playoffs. It’s not like getting crushed by Burrow is a one off type of game.

I don’t you’re factoring in how big of a loss Von Miller was — maybe because it’s been so long since the Bills had an elite pass rusher. Bill Walsh always talked about 4th quarter pressure and how it decided tons of games. Miller is still that guy, and he was doing it this year. He pressured Mahomes into throwing that pick, and vs Cleveland he pressured Jacoby Brissett on virtually every play in the fourth quarter. He is also a guy who almost literally won Denver an AFC championship game in 2015 by himself by relentlessly getting after Brady, sacking him, and picking him off for a td.

1 minute ago, damj said:

We'lll still have Frazier and his defense is very good 95% of the time.

 

The problem is that when we absolutely need someone to make a play, they often fail. Perfect example: 13 seconds

As I said, Miller is that guy who can win his matchups late in games.

7 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I keep seeing this as though Benford wasn't the better of the two rookies when healthy. He is more polished in zone and showed good athleticism. He also didn't need to grab in coverage so he didn't make stupid penalties. Why put him at safety when corner is still a weakness? 

He is not nearly as gifted as Elam, and Dane Jackson was one of the lone bright spots vs Cincy. They don’t have a strong safety - a required position - and he has experience at it. 4.55 for a CB is too slow but it’s ok for a safety.

[BillsFan130]

45 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I don’t you’re factoring in how big of a loss Von Miller was — maybe because it’s been so long since the Bills had an elite pass rusher. Bill Walsh always talked about 4th quarter pressure and how it decided tons of games. Miller is still that guy, and he was doing it this year. He pressured Mahomes into throwing that pick, and vs Cleveland he pressured Jacoby Brissett on virtually every play in the fourth quarter. He is also a guy who almost literally won Denver an AFC championship game in 2015 by himself by relentlessly getting after Brady, sacking him, and picking him off for a td.

As I said, Miller is that guy who can win his matchups late in games.

He is not nearly as gifted as Elam, and Dane Jackson was one of the lone bright spots vs Cincy. They don’t have a strong safety - a required position - and he has experience at it. 4.55 for a CB is too slow but it’s ok for a safety.

If Von Miller is in, what difference does it make if our corners are playing 10 yards off the receivers and Burrow gets rid of the ball in under 2 seconds?

 

We could have had aaron Donald, nick bosa, Von Miller and Micah parsons and we wouldn’t win with that scheme we ran against the Bengals 

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Oh, nonsense, as usual.

 

The D weren't even bad this postseason, much less your continuing on with your other untrue generalization. The offense was a lot worse than the defense against these Bengals. Not that the defense was good enough, they weren't. But this group was devastated by injuries, many of them to key players. When you have to play Jaquan Johnson most of the game and Cam Lewis a bunch as well, things are not looking good for you.

 

The D was not good against the Bengals this year (again, with major injuries to important players), but they were very good against the Fins. In the Fins game they allowed 24 points (one TD was 100% on the offense, a Buffalo fumble the Fins picked up and ran into the end zone). Miami also had three drives start in Buffalo territory, resulting in 13 of their 24 points . Miami's offense managed 231 yards total. The D was damn good, though the offense put them in awful positions the whole game through.

 

Last year they weren't good against the Chiefs but were just dominant against the Pats. And how many defenses shut down the Chiefs?

 

The year before they were good though not great against the Colts (finished off the game shutting them down on that last Colts drive that began with 2:30 left on the clock and gasped to a conclusion on the Buffalo 47 yard line trying a Hail Mary) and excellent against the Ravens. Then their worst game, once more against the Chiefs.

 

So yeah, they haven't been good enough against the Chiefs and not especially good against the Bengals with far more injuries than would be expected this year. Other than that, good in the postseason, despite what you're claiming.

 

Wouldn't expect little things like facts to hold back a juicy narrative that fits your preferred conclusion, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow that’s a lot of excuses and history washing.

[colin]

40 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Wow that’s a lot of excuses and history washing.

 

bengals were down 3 linemen, and barely beat the ravens the week before, the ravens w the most athletic UPS driver alive playing QB.

 

the total gutless nature of our D and entire team shows a quit game, that's on the coaches.  if the schemes don't work at the highest level, and the motivation leads to a nice run for the bus every season, then why are the coaches not getting upgraded?

[DeltaDigital]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Build a wall in front of Josh Allen

Yeah that’s not the way ACL repairs work you have to detach it

Thought von was a partial tear? 

[appoo]

2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

If Von Miller is in, what difference does it make if our corners are playing 10 yards off the receivers and Burrow gets rid of the ball in under 2 seconds?

 

We could have had aaron Donald, nick bosa, Von Miller and Micah parsons and we wouldn’t win with that scheme we ran against the Bengals 

They played mostly man for about 3.5 quarters, with corners who were at a disadvantage against man and a Dline that was playing its worst game of the season.  They also started bringing a lot more blitzes 

 

What change would you have suggested of Frazier?

[BillsFan130]

12 minutes ago, appoo said:

They played mostly man for about 3.5 quarters, with corners who were at a disadvantage against man and a Dline that was playing its worst game of the season.  They also started bringing a lot more blitzes 

 

What change would you have suggested of Frazier?

Do you have a stat that shows they played a lot of man coverage?

 

To me and I think to basically everyone, it seemed like they were playing a soft zone coverage all game long.

 

Maybe  some man on early downs, but a ton of zone on 3rd downs

[Nextmanup]

19 hours ago, appoo said:

The bills pass rush was excellent with a healthy Von Miller - which has more to do with Von’s cascading effect than Von himself. He forces the attention of the oiffenses protection scheme, and that makes life easier for the other DEs, and especially Ed Oliver, who because he faces much fewer doubles, is more effective, which in turn makes life harder for the tackle he’s next lined up closest to him, and that really helps the other DE.  

This is a fallacy.

 

Watch Von, when he's actually on the field.  He loves to line up way wide off the offense's right tackle.  98% of the time he locks up in a 1-on-1 battle with that tackle, and they play their own little game of "get the QB/don't let you get the QB".

 

He is never double teamed and what he does way out left has nothing to do with the remainder of the line play.

 

99% of the time Von does not win his battle, and then quits on the play, figuring if he doesn't beat his man right away, he will not have time to get to the QB anyway.

 

I acknowledge our pass rushing stats were a lot better with Von around, and they did drop off when he went out.  That implies it's Von connected, but I honestly think there's more to it than that.

 

Correlation does not imply causation.

 

 

[damj]

Von Miller wouldn't have made a difference against Cincinnati, the ball came out too fast. We needed to play tighter coverage and not loose. Sure, we didn't give up chunk plays, but Burrows nickle and dimed is to death

[BarleyNY]

13 minutes ago, damj said:

Von Miller wouldn't have made a difference against Cincinnati, the ball came out too fast. We needed to play tighter coverage and not loose. Sure, we didn't give up chunk plays, but Burrows nickle and dimed is to death

Maybe they’d have played tighter with Miller on the field. But I agree that they weren’t going to beat Cincy playing soft coverages regardless of whether he was on the field or not. 

49 minutes ago, appoo said:

They played mostly man for about 3.5 quarters, with corners who were at a disadvantage against man and a Dline that was playing its worst game of the season.  They also started bringing a lot more blitzes 

 

What change would you have suggested of Frazier?

In the Bengals game I saw the Bills play a ton of cover 2. The first TD was against the only non-cover 2 of the drive - a cover 1. The second drive had all c-2 except for one C-1. IIRC that play was a run anyway. 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by BarleyNY

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, DeltaDigital said:

Thought von was a partial tear? 

There is no such thing as a partial tear of the ACL if reconstruction was done then it’s detached and replaced