Bills D probably has 1 more year of running it back - and be good

[Jrb1979]

27 minutes ago, Billznut said:

I tend to agree with your comment, but in fairness I would have liked to see how a 100% healthy Bills defense would have done in the playoffs. We haven’t had that the last couple years. If we would have had everyone playing at full health and still got shredded by Cincy, then I don’t see how anyone could argue the defense isn’t good enough to win in the playoffs. 

The thing is you will always have injuries. It's how you adapt when they happen. The Bills don't seem to do that well. I don't think the game would have been that much different if they were fully healthy. The play calling would have been the same. They left the Bengals receivers have all the space in the world to make catches.  

[BillsFan130]

If we have Von, Jones and Hyde against the Bengals, do we play well on defence?

 

I am guessing no because the scheme never gave them a chance to win.

 

You make very good points all around. I just think If the bills D takes the next step In the playoffs, they have to change their scheme and be more versatile at times 

Edited January 27, 2023 by BillsFan130

[DeltaDigital]

2 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Von only partial tear so he probably recover better

Stem Cells baby. The brady treatment! 

[Einstein]

47 minutes ago, Billznut said:

I tend to agree with your comment, but in fairness I would have liked to see how a 100% healthy Bills defense would have done in the playoffs. We haven’t had that the last couple years. If we would have had everyone playing at full health and still got shredded by Cincy, then I don’t see how anyone could argue the defense isn’t good enough to win in the playoffs. 

 

We had a healthy defense last playoffs when KC shredded them.

1 hour ago, Logic said:

The Bills finished as a top 3 scoring defense in three out of the past four seasons. 

 

I know I can’t speak for everyone, but as for myself, i’m tired of hearing how good the defense is ranked during the season just for them to get smacked in the playoffs.

 

Giving up 31 points to Skylar Thompson and then getting bullied by the Bengals? Hard for me to care about regular season accolades.

[LABILLBACKER]

26 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

The thing is you will always have injuries. It's how you adapt when they happen. The Bills don't seem to do that well. I don't think the game would have been that much different if they were fully healthy. The play calling would have been the same. They left the Bengals receivers have all the space in the world to make catches.  

I think the game would've been somewhat closer with a healthy Von, Micah, Tre and Daquan. But that's assuming no one's injured.  We would've still lost because the defensive philosophy is extremely flawed.

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

We had a healthy defense last playoffs when KC shredded them.

 

I know I can’t speak for everyone, but as for myself, i’m tired of hearing how good the defense is ranked during the season just for them to get smacked in the playoffs.

 

Giving up 31 points to Skylar Thompson and then getting bullied by the Bengals? Hard for me to care about regular season accolades.

From here on out regular season defensive accomplishments should be taken for a grain of salt. 4 straight defensive meltdowns in the playoffs is not a coincidence. 

[HurlyBurly51]

1 hour ago, Southern_Bills said:

when it's 3rd and 8 for the game I don't trust them, and there is data to backup my mistrust. 

Haha!  How 'bout 3rd and 19?!🤣

[Southern_Bills]

Just now, HurlyBurly51 said:

Haha!  How 'bout 3rd and 19?!🤣

 

That one still hurts, we literally helped him catch it...🙄

[Mikie2times]

2 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

That's the big question to me.  

I think this Frazier/McDermott system could get the same results with a lot less overall talent.  We've been sold the line that all it need is another DE, another CB, a penetrating DT. So we've been starving Josh and the O of talent, trying to scrabble together an O-line with scraps. 

 

Time to switch it up. This D will be the same, regardless. Good against mediocre offenses and bad against efficient, precise offenses. 

Invest in the offense. Give Josh protection. Give him weapons. Get him a strong, vast RB. and get him a creative play caller

This is where I'm at. Heard all the counter arguments at this point. 

 

1. We are ranked in the top 5

2. No good defense stops good offense nowadays

3. Injuries

 

I'm sure some of this stuff has a place in the conversation, but we just aren't aggressive in our scheme. We aren't going to shut down a playoff caliber offense. Before you say, well, nobody shuts down a playoff caliber offense. SF just did it to advance to the NFC championship. Before you say, it's the Cowboys, well, Cincinnati just did to us. KC has done to us in previous games. It's actually fairly common for a Super Bowl push to be partnered with a game or two of dominant defensive play.  I want the capability of our defense carrying us in a game against a good offense. When you have to win 3-4 straight against the best, that is a requirement. If that comes with lower low's so be it. We need the higher high's. 

[appoo]

59 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

If we have Von, Jones and Hyde against the Bengals, do we play well on defence?

 

I am guessing no because the scheme never gave them a chance to win.

 

You make very good points all around. I just think If the bills D takes the next step In the playoffs, they have to change their scheme and be more versatile at times 

 They a million percent play MUCH MUCH Better.  Von got hurt week 12, and weeks 1 - 11 the Bills were something like 5th in pressure rate. 12 - 18 they were 22nd or so, and add Jones makes an immense difference to the run D, and Hyde makes 2 positions far more effective.  In fact I’d go as far to say that the Bengals wouldn’t have scored 20.

 

The much bigger problem is the Bills offense scored 10, and probably still loses the game

[LABILLBACKER]

Running it back?....being good?....our defense has been embarrassing in 4 straight playoff exits. I could care less about convoluted regular season analytics. 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, appoo said:

 They a million percent play MUCH MUCH Better.  Von got hurt week 12, and weeks 1 - 11 the Bills were something like 5th in pressure rate. 12 - 18 they were 22nd or so, and add Jones makes an immense difference to the run D, and Hyde makes 2 positions far more effective.  In fact I’d go as far to say that the Bengals wouldn’t have scored 20.

 

The much bigger problem is the Bills offense scored 10, and probably still loses the game

In the run it would have helped having Jones, I’ll agree with that.

 

But the pass rush is irrelevant if you’re playing 10 yards off the receivers and giving Burrow the easy passes all game long.

 

Having those guys play or not, it wouldn’t have mattered if Frazier ran the same soft zone coverage 

Edited January 27, 2023 by BillsFan130

[appoo]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

In the run it would have helped having Jones, I’ll agree with that.

 

But the pass rush is irrelevant if you’re playing 10 yards off the receivers and giving Burrow the easy passes all game long.

 

Having those guys play or not, it wouldn’t have mattered if Frazier ran the same soft zone coverage 

That’s a hyperbolic way of describing the defense. It was flat out good when they had Von. Again look at the chiefs game or even the first Dolphins game 

[TampaBillsJunkie]

6 hours ago, appoo said:

3 injuries really crushed that defense in a way that no DC would have been to overcome in Micah Hyde, Tre White and Von Miller. And especially losing Von Miller was the final break. 

Don;t forget about Daquan Jones. Missing him was key also. Jones plugged the middle and forced things outside. That didn't happen against the Bengals.

[Billznut]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

We had a healthy defense last playoffs when KC shredded them.

 

 

We didn’t have Tre White last year for the playoff game. Which is why I mentioned last year’s playoffs as well as this years. Injuries are part of the problem. Scheme is too but that will never change with McD here. 

[appoo]

25 minutes ago, Billznut said:

We didn’t have Tre White last year for the playoff game. Which is why I mentioned last year’s playoffs as well as this years. Injuries are part of the problem. Scheme is too but that will never change with McD here. 

Or Von Miller.

 

like people understand why they’re paying him 20M right? RIGHT?!!

[appoo]

Like I feel like I’m losing my mind. 
 

Basic football fundamentals. When do you go “aggressive”? When you can’t stuff an offense playing base. When do you go exotic coverage? When you can’t stop a pass game by moving/hurrying the QB + struggle to cover their WR, or feel it’s a plau rheyre extra protect and you want to confuse them. 
 

So Von Miller? He makes the rest of the lineman better, which means the bills don’t at all need to ring pressure to stiff offenses. They had one of the 5 best pressure rates WHILE having one of the lowest blitz rates in the NFL - while Von was playing. And THAT is why you pay that man 20M a year. 

 

lMy biggest criticism of this defense is they don’t go disguise coverages often enough. Teams will load up in pass pro and just send 3 out, knowing we’ll be in Cover 1/2/6. I would love to see more disguise coverages because we have the backers that can go from LOS to middle third. Why do I know this? Because I’ve literally SEEN Edmunds do this in of the few times we called a Disguised zone. 
 

Here’s the thing, QBs guess when you have everyone close to the LOS. Literally know QB can “know” the coverage when you have everyone out of position. 

I would love to see more of that once we get Micah back, and a better cover SS in there 

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

They're not even good right now.

 

Every postseason under this current regime has been a defensive failure.

 

Once is luck. Twice is circumstance. Three or more times is a habit.

 

 

Oh, nonsense, as usual.

 

The D weren't even bad this postseason, much less your continuing on with your other untrue generalization. The offense was a lot worse than the defense against these Bengals. Not that the defense was good enough, they weren't. But this group was devastated by injuries, many of them to key players. When you have to play Jaquan Johnson most of the game and Cam Lewis a bunch as well, things are not looking good for you.

 

The D was not good against the Bengals this year (again, with major injuries to important players), but they were very good against the Fins. In the Fins game they allowed 24 points (one TD was 100% on the offense, a Buffalo fumble the Fins picked up and ran into the end zone). Miami also had three drives start in Buffalo territory, resulting in 13 of their 24 points . Miami's offense managed 231 yards total. The D was damn good, though the offense put them in awful positions the whole game through.

 

Last year they weren't good against the Chiefs but were just dominant against the Pats. And how many defenses shut down the Chiefs?

 

The year before they were good though not great against the Colts (finished off the game shutting them down on that last Colts drive that began with 2:30 left on the clock and gasped to a conclusion on the Buffalo 47 yard line trying a Hail Mary) and excellent against the Ravens. Then their worst game, once more against the Chiefs.

 

So yeah, they haven't been good enough against the Chiefs and not especially good against the Bengals with far more injuries than would be expected this year. Other than that, good in the postseason, despite what you're claiming.

 

Wouldn't expect little things like facts to hold back a juicy narrative that fits your preferred conclusion, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

The thing is you will always have injuries. It's how you adapt when they happen. The Bills don't seem to do that well. I don't think the game would have been that much different if they were fully healthy. The play calling would have been the same. They left the Bengals receivers have all the space in the world to make catches.  

 

 

You will always have injuries.

 

Except when you pretty much don't. The last two years we had injuries, but few and mostly at spots that weren't crucial.

 

This year we didn't just have injuries, we had far more injuries than usual and injuries at absolutely key positions. Hyde, White, DaQuan and Von are probably four of our five best players and three of them didn't play and the other didn't play like himself. And Poyer, another of our best, was just hobbling.

 

That's probably our three best DBs. Of course the Bengals had all the space in the world. I said it last post, but it's worth remembering, because it had a huge effect. We played Marlowe on 41 defensive snaps, a guy who wasn't even on the team most of the season, Jaquan Johnson on 34, Cam Lewis on 13, Siran Neal on defense not STs for 5. Why would anyone expect good performance from this ragtag group?

 

Really good teams having seasons destroyed by important injuries is a very common occurrence. It's real. Teams can recover if there are not too many and especially if they are not at key positions.

 

And the defense with all those injuries held the Bengal offense to about their season average, while the Bills offense scored 10 points less than the Bengals usually allow.

 

Am I trying to say that therefore everything is peachy and no changes are needed? No, not at all. They need to improve. I'm confident they will. Enough? We'll see.

[Pirate Angel]

Being able to run the ball and a have a short dink and dunk offense would greatly help the Defense against Juggernaut offenses. Eat up the clock, keep our defense off the field.

[John from Riverside]

I am honestly not a huge fan of dumping any more groceries into the defense

 

If McDermott is a defensive coordinator, let him coach up a Defense and start putting resources towards an offense

 

Build a wall in front of Josh Allen

8 hours ago, DeltaDigital said:

Stem Cells baby. The brady treatment! 

Yeah that’s not the way ACL repairs work you have to detach it