Fire Frazier? McDermott? Nah. Bills fans have to switch their mentality re: defense

[Livinginthepast]

8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I think you're being to kind here.  The Bills offense is a big play unit that needs to get at bats to put points on the board.  As has happened in other losses this year the D allows long time consuming drives that deny the offense crucial possessions.

 

Th other issue with the defense that doesn't fully show up in the numbers is that they have a bad habit of giving up big plays or long drives at critical points in the game.  Take last weeks game:

 

*  They allowed Cincinnati to go down and score a TD on their first possession.  Then after a 3 & out by the O the defense allows another long TD drive.  So now we're late in the 1st quarter and down 14 - 0.  All the momentum from having a home playoff game has evaporated.

 

*  Midway through the 2nd period the O goes on a long TD drive and cuts the Bengals lead to 14 - 7.  At home and in the playoffs this should translate to a big momentum swing right?  Hell no because the Bengals then use up most of the 2nd quarter to go down and kick a FG making it a two score game again.  And the only reason the Bengal's didn't score a TD was a great play by Milano and a drop by Chase. This left the Bills O with very little time to go down and get a score.  This was important because the Bengals were not letting the Bills make big plays and forcing them to take the little stuff to move down the field.

 

*  Then in the 3rd quarter after the Bills O uses up half the quarter on a FG drive that cuts the Cincy lead to 17 -10 the D allows the Bengals to use up most of the remaining 3rd quarter on a TD drive that puts then up 24 - 10.

 

 

 

 

This is a good synopsis of the how the defense just killed us. Momentum, pts and time off the clock. Frazier's poor game plan and lack of adjustments were the biggest issue we had. Dorsey had an awful game too but it was our defense that let us down, in all the ways you've mentioned.

[Meatloaf63]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:10 PM, dave mcbride said:

The Bengals could have scored 41 in that game if they needed to. 

The we should have scored 42

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said:

The we should have scored 42

We probably would have if all our draft capital and Fa money for von was spent on the offense and not on the Defense

Edited January 29, 2023 by Billever76

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

We probably would have if all our draft capital and Fa money for von was spent on the offense and not on the Defense

You cannot predict injuries like that von would’ve really helped us just like he did the Rams

 

Brandon beans thought process on that was sound

[Billever76]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

You cannot predict injuries like that von would’ve really helped us just like he did the Rams

 

Brandon beans thought process on that was sound

I'm not predicting injuries I'm saying I'd rather have an aj brown or hopkins caliber wr opposite Diggs and that the money we spent would have been better suited to team success on the offense

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

You cannot predict injuries like that von would’ve really helped us just like he did the Rams

 

Brandon beans thought process on that was sound

The rams had a better oline and didn't just have Stafford and kupp on the offense doing it alone either

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well when we have a big time offense that turns up in the playoffs we can win that way. They did in 2021. The other 4 times we have lost in the post season under this regime the O has under performed its season average in the post season too. 

 

That isn't to defend the D. It is to say the obsession with it is misplaced. It is a team wide issue.

The offense showed up and then some in the 2021 playoffs.  if the defense had showed up just once in our last four season ending playoff losses Buffalo would likely have at least one Super Bowl trophy on the shelf. 

 

Remember the old saying "to those where much is given much is expected".  The fact is that the offense has been treated like the proverbial red headed step child and now some fans are claiming they needed to up their game in the playoffs?  I don't think so.

 

 

[Billever76]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The offense showed up and then some in the 2021 playoffs.  if the defense had showed up just once in our last four season ending playoff losses Buffalo would likely have at least one Super Bowl trophy on the shelf. 

 

Remember the old saying "to those where much is given much is expected".  The fact is that the offense has been treated like the proverbial red headed step child and now some fans are claiming they needed to up their game in the playoffs?  I don't think so.

 

 

That's my disappointment with this staff...we have Josh allen and we are focused on building a defense?...I could see that level of thinking with a game manager type qb like Mac jones but with Allen? It just is all backwards level of thinking by the people we ha e put in place to make decisions that are right for this team....we would prioritize the defense if we still had Tyrol Taylor at qb...that I would agree on

[CincyBillsFan]

18 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

That's my disappointment with this staff...we have Josh allen and we are focused on building a defense?...I could see that level of thinking with a game manager type qb like Mac jones but with Allen? It just is all backwards level of thinking by the people we ha e put in place to make decisions that are right for this team....we would prioritize the defense if we still had Tyrol Taylor at qb...that I would agree on

People mock Cowherd but at times the guy is spot on in his analysis and this is one of those times.  In the current NFL defensive minded head coaches struggle to build high powered offenses around elite QB talent.  Can you imagine KC, Cincy or the Eagles NOT surrounding their supremely talented QB's with as much firepower and protection as possible?  Hell, even though SF doesn't have an elite QB (yet) they have loaded that offense up with a great O line and every weapon imaginable.

 

That the Bills CHOSE not to do this is on them.  The good news is that it's not to late to change direction and start to make this right.  But anything less then a full reversal of the current approach and a commitment to equip their franchise QB with the best offense possible would be disappointing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Billever76]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

People mock Cowherd but at times the guy is spot on in his analysis and this is one of those times.  In the current NFL defensive minded head coaches struggle to build high powered offenses around elite QB talent.  Can you imagine KC, Cincy or the Eagles NOT surrounding their supremely talented QB's with as much firepower and protection as possible?  Hell, even though SF doesn't have an elite QB (yet) they have loaded that offense up with a great O line and every weapon imaginable.

 

That the Bills CHOSE not to do this is on them.  The good news is that it's not to late to change direction and start to make this right.  But anything less then a full reversal of the current approach and a commitment to equip their franchise QB with the best offense possible would be disappointing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What it all boils down to is when you land that Qb like Allen/mahomes/burrow/Herbert you do absolutely everything you can do to give them everything they need to not only succeed but to thrive...it almost feels like our decision is McDermott or allen.....McDermott was needed for this team no doubt about it..he changed the culture and did allot of good...but he is at this point holding the offense and the next step in the evolution of josh allen back with his prioritizing of the Defense

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

What it all boils down to is when you land that Qb like Allen/mahomes/burrow/Herbert you do absolutely everything you can do to give them everything they need to not only succeed but to thrive...it almost feels like our decision is McDermott or allen.....McDermott was needed for this team no doubt about it..he changed the culture and did allot of good...but he is at this point holding the offense and the next step in the evolution of josh allen back with his prioritizing of the Defense

And let's not forget that the defensive minded head coach for the Chargers isn't doing Herbert any favors either. And you can bet that Pederson and the Jags will be doing everything possible to improve the offensive talent around Lawrence in the off season.

 

BTW I actually like and respect McD.  He did turn around a franchise that was all but dead in the water.  But he must rise above his defensive bias and change direction.  I actually think he and Bean will do exactly that in the off season.  If we can see the problem they saw it long before we did.

 

 

 

 

[JohnNord]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:05 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

Since Sunday afternoon I've seen so many Bills fans complaining about Frazier, McDermott and the defense. Upset that they couldn't shut down one of the best offenses in the NFL in the divisional playoffs. 

 

The bottom line is this: Once Allen signed that massive contract, the Bills stopped being the type of team that can shut down powerful offenses and instead moved into the category of teams that have to outscore opponents.

 

The days of a dominant Bills defense are over. The NFL's system is built that way thanks to the salary cap. We have a franchise quarterback now that's paid that way. We're not going to be able to load the roster with defensive stars going forward. 

 

Josh Allen is one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL today. That means the offense has to be dominant. The defense just has to not be terrible. Giving up 27 points is not terrible. Scoring 10 points IS terrible. This is the mentality that Bills fans are not used to but have to get there: which is to focus on the offense instead of the defense.

 

It's not ideal to get down 0-14 to start a game. But it didn't phase me. I knew the defense would adjust and for the most part they did, only giving up 13 points the rest of the way. But the 0-14 start really didn't bother me much because we have Josh Allen - I fully expected the offense to start humming and not only get back into it but eventually take the lead. But they never did. The defense gave the offense opportunities to do so but the offense failed each time.

 

Frazier isn't a schematic genius but he's not going anywhere. The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible.

 

Instead, put the focus and pressure on where it now belongs - the offense:

 

• Dorsey has to get better in Year 2. The schemes he comes into the 2023 season with and his playcalling on game days.
• Beane has to upgrade the OLine. Draft, free agency...whatever. The OLine on Sunday was a total embarrassment. That's on Beane to fix it.
• Outside of Diggs, the wide receiver unit is simply not good enough. Gabe Davis ain't it. Neither is McKenzie. I like Shakir. But Beane needs to address this unit this offseason.
• Improvement from Knox, Cook, Hines - a lot of this has to do with Dorsey involving them more. But all three have major talent that must be properly utilized.

 

If all of this happens, Allen can relax and be the best quarterback on the planet in 2023. He will stop feeling like he has to be Superman every possession and just play.

 

Then the offense can be dominant.

 

That's how this team is going to win the Super Bowl. Not by being the 2000 Ravens. But by being the 1999 Rams.

This is 100% correct.  Not sure why people are glancing over the fact that the offense crapped the bed just as bad as the defense did this game.  
 

Bills fans love a scapegoat

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The offense showed up and then some in the 2021 playoffs.  if the defense had showed up just once in our last four season ending playoff losses Buffalo would likely have at least one Super Bowl trophy on the shelf. 

 

Remember the old saying "to those where much is given much is expected".  The fact is that the offense has been treated like the proverbial red headed step child and now some fans are claiming they needed to up their game in the playoffs?  I don't think so.

 

 

They couldn’t bear a Cincinnati at home last week…not sure it was a given last year 

[Billever76]

24 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

This is 100% correct.  Not sure why people are glancing over the fact that the offense crapped the bed just as bad as the defense did this game.  
 

Bills fans love a scapegoat

They couldn’t bear a Cincinnati at home last week…not sure it was a given last year 

No one is really arguing the offense crapped the bed...the glaring issue is after all the early draft picks and the money we spent on defense one would hope they performed better than they did...hard to fault the offense when the oline is the 26th ranked oline and no true wr2 opposite diggs and a first year oc calling the plays for the offense(Allen's 3rd oc in 5yrs)

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

25 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

This is 100% correct.  Not sure why people are glancing over the fact that the offense crapped the bed just as bad as the defense did this game.  
 

Bills fans love a scapegoat

They couldn’t bear a Cincinnati at home last week…not sure it was a given last year 

 

Is anyone disputing that the offense sucked vs the Bengals? 

 

My issue with the defense is that they've ***** the bed in three straight playoff losses. The offense sucked vs Bengals, had an incredible game last year, and 2 years ago had a so-so game. 

 

Over the 3 games combined we've forced 5 punts and 0 turnovers. It's impossible to win when your DEF is playing that poorly. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The offense showed up and then some in the 2021 playoffs.  if the defense had showed up just once in our last four season ending playoff losses Buffalo would likely have at least one Super Bowl trophy on the shelf. 

 

Remember the old saying "to those where much is given much is expected".  The fact is that the offense has been treated like the proverbial red headed step child and now some fans are claiming they needed to up their game in the playoffs?  I don't think so.

 

 

 

I am sorry I disagree. Even if the defense had showed up in Houston or last Sunday the offense was not good enough and the defense would have needed to be all world vs Mahomes in the AFCCG in 2020 to prop up that offensive display when Chris Jones was a one man wrecking crew against our oline. 2021 is the exception in that the O showed up in a major way and the D didn't hold up its part of the bargain.

 

And I have said multiple times I agree with you on resource allocation but that doesn't get the offense totally off the hook. They were pitiful last weekend. The whole team was. Everything from that deserves a share of the blame and needs looking at. 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Ayjent]

I just don’t understand why this team is not built to be way more physical and imposing especially when a home game in the elements dictates you need that type of team.  The Bengals just manhandled this team on both sides and with backups on their OL after looking quite pedestrian vs Ravens.  I really just don’t see how this is anything but a reality check for the entire organization from Beane to position coaches. And I’m not certain the investments in the D are as bad as they may seem but I do think there are serious questions about their development and training as no players really seem to develop on the DL.  Hard to say who is at fault but there is a massive issue. They need to invest in protecting Josh and getting more physical on offense as a priority. I sincerely believe the way the Bills play D wouldn’t be much worse if they didn’t Invest so much into it. It’s the keep it in front of you philosophy that rolls out the red carpet for first downs and long drives against talented offenses - you don’t need top notch talent to play patty cake. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sorry I don't agree on this year v the Bengals AT ALL. The offense sucked. Ladt year, yep.... if the D had even been average they go to the AFCCG. They would have had to have one of the all time playoff performances this year to prop up that offense and that is the point. Both units were equally culpable. And I don't disagree that the O might have more legit excuses for its culpability given the resource allocation.... but it was still culpable and that is getting glossed over.

Like the Ravens against the very same Bengals in the WC Round?

[Rebel101]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:05 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

Since Sunday afternoon I've seen so many Bills fans complaining about Frazier, McDermott and the defense. Upset that they couldn't shut down one of the best offenses in the NFL in the divisional playoffs. 

 

The bottom line is this: Once Allen signed that massive contract, the Bills stopped being the type of team that can shut down powerful offenses and instead moved into the category of teams that have to outscore opponents.

 

The days of a dominant Bills defense are over. The NFL's system is built that way thanks to the salary cap. We have a franchise quarterback now that's paid that way. We're not going to be able to load the roster with defensive stars going forward. 

 

Josh Allen is one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL today. That means the offense has to be dominant. The defense just has to not be terrible. Giving up 27 points is not terrible. Scoring 10 points IS terrible. This is the mentality that Bills fans are not used to but have to get there: which is to focus on the offense instead of the defense.

 

It's not ideal to get down 0-14 to start a game. But it didn't phase me. I knew the defense would adjust and for the most part they did, only giving up 13 points the rest of the way. But the 0-14 start really didn't bother me much because we have Josh Allen - I fully expected the offense to start humming and not only get back into it but eventually take the lead. But they never did. The defense gave the offense opportunities to do so but the offense failed each time.

 

Frazier isn't a schematic genius but he's not going anywhere. The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible.

 

Instead, put the focus and pressure on where it now belongs - the offense:

 

• Dorsey has to get better in Year 2. The schemes he comes into the 2023 season with and his playcalling on game days.
• Beane has to upgrade the OLine. Draft, free agency...whatever. The OLine on Sunday was a total embarrassment. That's on Beane to fix it.
• Outside of Diggs, the wide receiver unit is simply not good enough. Gabe Davis ain't it. Neither is McKenzie. I like Shakir. But Beane needs to address this unit this offseason.
• Improvement from Knox, Cook, Hines - a lot of this has to do with Dorsey involving them more. But all three have major talent that must be properly utilized.

 

If all of this happens, Allen can relax and be the best quarterback on the planet in 2023. He will stop feeling like he has to be Superman every possession and just play.

 

Then the offense can be dominant.

 

That's how this team is going to win the Super Bowl. Not by being the 2000 Ravens. But by being the 1999 Rams.

I mean I agree the offense needs to produce more. But our defense needs to also show up. These coaches ain’t getting it done though. You will see. Unfortunately we all will see something I’ve been saying since McDermott lost to the Texans in the playoffs. Same ***** another year. He’s soft. He makes the team soft. 

3 hours ago, Ayjent said:

I just don’t understand why this team is not built to be way more physical and imposing especially when a home game in the elements dictates you need that type of team.  The Bengals just manhandled this team on both sides and with backups on their OL after looking quite pedestrian vs Ravens.  I really just don’t see how this is anything but a reality check for the entire organization from Beane to position coaches. And I’m not certain the investments in the D are as bad as they may seem but I do think there are serious questions about their development and training as no players really seem to develop on the DL.  Hard to say who is at fault but there is a massive issue. They need to invest in protecting Josh and getting more physical on offense as a priority. I sincerely believe the way the Bills play D wouldn’t be much worse if they didn’t Invest so much into it. It’s the keep it in front of you philosophy that rolls out the red carpet for first downs and long drives against talented offenses - you don’t need top notch talent to play patty cake. 

SOFT COACHES. No one listens to me. McDermott is a ***** *****. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Like the Ravens against the very same Bengals in the WC Round?

 

The Ravens offense mustered more than 10 points.

[Bermuda Triangle]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Ravens offense mustered more than 10 points.

Yes, and I’m sure that the Bills offense could have scored another FG or two had the sieve like defense not constantly put the offense in a 2+ score hole.

Of course, you’re conveniently ignoring that the Ravens scored 17 and gave the Bengals 7 points

Edited January 29, 2023 by Bermuda Triangle

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

Yes, and I’m sure that the Bills offense could have scored another FG or two had the sieve like defense not constantly put the offense in a 2+ score hole.
 

 

Are you? See I really am not. Bills had it down 17-7 with time left before half. Had to punt it away. They had it at 17-7 again to open the 2nd half. Only managed 3. Got it back at 24-10 still time in the third... went 3 and out. The might have kicked 3 rather than going on 4th down the next drive, and mustered 13... but that wad their lot. 

 

That is my point it was pitiful on both sides of the ball on Sunday. Neither was good enough to prop up the other. Just a disaster of a performance all around.