Fire Frazier? McDermott? Nah. Bills fans have to switch their mentality re: defense

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, I agree. But only because the offense was spectacular in the 2021 playoffs. Otherwise it has been bad too. And I don't disagree with you on asset allocation either. My point was not that the defense doesn't deserve scrutiny. It was that the offense does too and I think that is being missed a bit.

When I scrutinize the offenses performance during the 3 games that the Bills were eliminated from the playoffs I first start with how well did that unit play compared to the other units.  And the answer is that the offense was brilliant and highly productive in one of the three losses while the D was terrible in all three losses. 

 

My next area of scrutiny is which of these units has the better players and which of these units gets the lions share of resources? Again the answer is clear - the defense gets far more draft capital and free agent signings then the offense.  So my expectations are higher for the D then for the O. 

 

So taking all this into consideration here's were I land on: If the defense was only average in last seasons divisional playoff game Buffalo is in the AFC Championship game thanks to the offense.  If the D played great this year against the Bengals, the Bill's likley would be in the AFC Championship game as the offense would have had more possessions and maybe a TO or two from the D.  We might have won the game 17 - 13.  You know a low scoring affair like he 49's victory over Dallas.

 

The key step in getting to the Super Bowl is getting to the conference championship game. The last two years the D as let the franchise down because it has not come close to playing to its potential in spite of receiving the overwhelming majority of resources.  That's the problem.

 

Sorry but the only scrutiny the offense should get is that they're not getting the resources needed to fully exploit having an elite talent at QB. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

The defense gave up two huge scoring drives to start the game and the weather worsened as the game went on.

 

Bengals chewed up the clock all game and had our O sitting on the sidelines defense couldn't ever get a stop.

 

Equal blame to go around

I think you're being to kind here.  The Bills offense is a big play unit that needs to get at bats to put points on the board.  As has happened in other losses this year the D allows long time consuming drives that deny the offense crucial possessions.

 

Th other issue with the defense that doesn't fully show up in the numbers is that they have a bad habit of giving up big plays or long drives at critical points in the game.  Take last weeks game:

 

*  They allowed Cincinnati to go down and score a TD on their first possession.  Then after a 3 & out by the O the defense allows another long TD drive.  So now we're late in the 1st quarter and down 14 - 0.  All the momentum from having a home playoff game has evaporated.

 

*  Midway through the 2nd period the O goes on a long TD drive and cuts the Bengals lead to 14 - 7.  At home and in the playoffs this should translate to a big momentum swing right?  Hell no because the Bengals then use up most of the 2nd quarter to go down and kick a FG making it a two score game again.  And the only reason the Bengal's didn't score a TD was a great play by Milano and a drop by Chase. This left the Bills O with very little time to go down and get a score.  This was important because the Bengals were not letting the Bills make big plays and forcing them to take the little stuff to move down the field.

 

*  Then in the 3rd quarter after the Bills O uses up half the quarter on a FG drive that cuts the Cincy lead to 17 -10 the D allows the Bengals to use up most of the remaining 3rd quarter on a TD drive that puts then up 24 - 10.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

When I scrutinize the offenses performance during the 3 games that the Bills were eliminated from the playoffs I first start with how well did that unit play compared to the other units.  And the answer is that the offense was brilliant and highly productive in one of the three losses while the D was terrible in all three losses. 

 

My next area of scrutiny is which of these units has the better players and which of these units gets the lions share of resources? Again the answer is clear - the defense gets far more draft capital and free agent signings then the offense.  So my expectations are higher for the D then for the O. 

 

So taking all this into consideration here's were I land on: If the defense was only average in last seasons divisional playoff game Buffalo is in the AFC Championship game thanks to the offense.  If the D played great this year against the Bengals, the Bill's likley would be in the AFC Championship game as the offense would have had more possessions and maybe a TO or two from the D.  We might have won the game 17 - 13.  You know a low scoring affair like he 49's victory over Dallas.

 

The key step in getting to the Super Bowl is getting to the conference championship game. The last two years the D as let the franchise down because it has not come close to playing to its potential in spite of receiving the overwhelming majority of resources.  That's the problem.

 

Sorry but the only scrutiny the offense should get is that they're not getting the resources needed to fully exploit having an elite talent at QB. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am sorry I don't agree on this year v the Bengals AT ALL. The offense sucked. Ladt year, yep.... if the D had even been average they go to the AFCCG. They would have had to have one of the all time playoff performances this year to prop up that offense and that is the point. Both units were equally culpable. And I don't disagree that the O might have more legit excuses for its culpability given the resource allocation.... but it was still culpable and that is getting glossed over.

[Scott7975]

My take is this… with all of the investment that they have on D it should be ***** elite. It isn’t. It’s a “hope they make a mistake on offense” type of D. 
 

they should have invested in protecting Josh instead. Other teams make stops without all their picks invested in a 200 man D line rotation and a 4 man CB rotation. 
 

the investment wouldn’t look near as bad if they played D like the Ravens did just the week before. Instead they were a dumpster fire that go walked all over. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Scott7975

[Billever76]

4 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I think you're being to kind here.  The Bills offense is a big play unit that needs to get at bats to put points on the board.  As has happened in other losses this year the D allows long time consuming drives that deny the offense crucial possessions.

 

Th other issue with the defense that doesn't fully show up in the numbers is that they have a bad habit of giving up big plays or long drives at critical points in the game.  Take last weeks game:

 

*  They allowed Cincinnati to go down and score a TD on their first possession.  Then after a 3 & out by the O the defense allows another long TD drive.  So now we're late in the 1st quarter and down 14 - 0.  All the momentum from having a home playoff game has evaporated.

 

*  Midway through the 2nd period the O goes on a long TD drive and cuts the Bengals lead to 14 - 7.  At home and in the playoffs this should translate to a big momentum swing right?  Hell no because the Bengals then use up most of the 2nd quarter to go down and kick a FG making it a two score game again.  And the only reason the Bengal's didn't score a TD was a great play by Milano and a drop by Chase. This left the Bills O with very little time to go down and get a score.  This was important because the Bengals were not letting the Bills make big plays and forcing them to take the little stuff to move down the field.

 

*  Then in the 3rd quarter after the Bills O uses up half the quarter on a FG drive that cuts the Cincy lead to 17 -10 the D allows the Bengals to use up most of the remaining 3rd quarter on a TD drive that puts then up 24 - 10.

 

 

 

 

The Bills offense needs to diversify!..our identity can't be just Allen and Diggs...another wr2 and a run game will make us impossible to stop

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

My take is this… with all of the investment that they have on D it should be ***** elite. It isn’t. It’s a “hope they make a mistake on offense” type of D. 
 

they should have invested in protecting Josh instead. Other teams make stops without all their picks invested in a 200 man D line rotation and a 4 man CB rotation. 
 

the investment wouldn’t look near as bad if they played D like the Ravens did just the week before. Instead they were a dumpster fire that go walked all over. 

THANK YOU

[97bills]

23 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Yea, it's to bad that the Ravens aren't the team that was blocking the Bills from the SB the last two years.  All credit to Frazier for figuring out how to deal with Jackson and the Ravens unconventional offense.  Meanwhile the road to being AFC champions is blocked by 2 teams featuring elite QB's and potent offenses in Cincy & KC.  And Frazier's defense has been unable to deal with either of these teams through 3 playoff games.  And don't look now but Herbert & Lawrence may be doubling the # of teams blocking the Bills path to the SB with offenses that Fraziers D will not be able to stop.

 

 

If we bring back Frazier… and this happens again I hope we can McDermott!!! And I’m not that guy screaming for him to be fired, but you can’t keep running the same crap back every year. 

[97bills]

19 hours ago, papazoid said:

frazier has got to go

 

#1 - when facing mutiple weapons....he retreats, backs up deep

 

#2 - he is predictable.....needs to mix it with blitzes and overloads from one side

This…. I guarantee you when burrow and mohomes watch film on our defense they no it’s going to be easy. Especially in the playoffs. Our cornerbacks playing 8 yards off elite WR. With no pass rush…. Yea that’s going to work. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

The indictment of McDermott and Frazier is the Bengals fielded 2 Oline starters and still managed to punish the Bills defense.  As for Beane, all the Dline resources, draft choices, free agents, and cap space yielded little.  Nothing they did appeared to confuse or surprise the Bengals.   Which should have been expected as the same defense didn't seem to faze a 3rd string rookie the week before.

Edited January 28, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

My take is this… with all of the investment that they have on D it should be ***** elite. It isn’t. It’s a “hope they make a mistake on offense” type of D. 
 

they should have invested in protecting Josh instead. Other teams make stops without all their picks invested in a 200 man D line rotation and a 4 man CB rotation. 
 

the investment wouldn’t look near as bad if they played D like the Ravens did just the week before. Instead they were a dumpster fire that go walked all over. 

 

I kinda do agree and I don't. The Bills have mis-invested multiple picks IMO. Undervalued offense and overalvalued defense. But I disagree on the style of defense. The way you win in the NFL now is not boom and bust defense. It is make them be perfect defense. I know fans hate it but 3/4 teams left are primarily bend but don't break  

Edited January 28, 2023 by GunnerBill

[cgg716]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I kinda do agree and I don't. The Bills have mis-invested multiple picks IMO. Undervalued offense and overalvalued defense. But I disagree on the style of defense. The way you win in the NFL now is not boom and bust defense. It is make them be perfect defense. I know fans hate it but 3/4 teams left are primarily bend but don't break  

Spagnola is not. SF is not. And nobody plays 10 yards off the WRs

[PBF81]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:05 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

Since Sunday afternoon I've seen so many Bills fans complaining about Frazier, McDermott and the defense. Upset that they couldn't shut down one of the best offenses in the NFL in the divisional playoffs. 

 

The bottom line is this: Once Allen signed that massive contract, the Bills stopped being the type of team that can shut down powerful offenses and instead moved into the category of teams that have to outscore opponents.

 

The days of a dominant Bills defense are over. The NFL's system is built that way thanks to the salary cap. We have a franchise quarterback now that's paid that way. We're not going to be able to load the roster with defensive stars going forward. 

 

Josh Allen is one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL today. That means the offense has to be dominant. The defense just has to not be terrible. Giving up 27 points is not terrible. Scoring 10 points IS terrible. This is the mentality that Bills fans are not used to but have to get there: which is to focus on the offense instead of the defense.

 

It's not ideal to get down 0-14 to start a game. But it didn't phase me. I knew the defense would adjust and for the most part they did, only giving up 13 points the rest of the way. But the 0-14 start really didn't bother me much because we have Josh Allen - I fully expected the offense to start humming and not only get back into it but eventually take the lead. But they never did. The defense gave the offense opportunities to do so but the offense failed each time.

 

Frazier isn't a schematic genius but he's not going anywhere. The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible.

 

Instead, put the focus and pressure on where it now belongs - the offense:

 

• Dorsey has to get better in Year 2. The schemes he comes into the 2023 season with and his playcalling on game days.
• Beane has to upgrade the OLine. Draft, free agency...whatever. The OLine on Sunday was a total embarrassment. That's on Beane to fix it.
• Outside of Diggs, the wide receiver unit is simply not good enough. Gabe Davis ain't it. Neither is McKenzie. I like Shakir. But Beane needs to address this unit this offseason.
• Improvement from Knox, Cook, Hines - a lot of this has to do with Dorsey involving them more. But all three have major talent that must be properly utilized.

 

If all of this happens, Allen can relax and be the best quarterback on the planet in 2023. He will stop feeling like he has to be Superman every possession and just play.

 

Then the offense can be dominant.

 

That's how this team is going to win the Super Bowl. Not by being the 2000 Ravens. But by being the 1999 Rams.

 

Losing, not shutting down a good offense, being beaten is one thing.

 

Playing loose sloppy football, marked by "WTF" coaching, entirely unable to generate ANY kind of pass-rush whatsoever, leaving opposing WRs so wide open that it's not even known who blew the assignment, not to mention the typical play-calling issues that are routine with this team, are two entirely different things.  

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

Spagnola is not. SF is not. And nobody plays 10 yards off the WRs

 

Spags is not. San Fran is. They just have better talent up front.

[SirAndrew]

The offense and defense were both bad against Cincy. The defense has failed in the playoffs for three straight years, and we occasionally get run over at home in games like the Pats no pass epic. The offense needs improvement, but the defense has been consistently soft, with a scheme that doesn’t work in big games. No one expects the 2000 Ravens, but this isn’t good enough, and we keep doing the same thing. A big time offense can win titles these days, but the defense needs to do something, and they are soft as can be. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by SirAndrew

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

The offense and defense were both bad against Cincy. The defense has failed in the playoffs for three straight years, and we occasionally get run over at home in games like the Pats no pass epic. The offense needs improvement, but the defense has been consistently soft, with a scheme that doesn’t work in big games. No one expects the 2000 Ravens, but this isn’t good enough, and we keep doing the same thing. A big time offense can win titles these days, but the defense needs to do something, and they are soft as can be. 

 

Well when we have a big time offense that turns up in the playoffs we can win that way. They did in 2021. The other 4 times we have lost in the post season under this regime the O has under performed its season average in the post season too. 

 

That isn't to defend the D. It is to say the obsession with it is misplaced. It is a team wide issue.

[Billever76]

9 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

The offense and defense were both bad against Cincy. The defense has failed in the playoffs for three straight years, and we occasionally get run over at home in games like the Pats no pass epic. The offense needs improvement, but the defense has been consistently soft, with a scheme that doesn’t work in big games. No one expects the 2000 Ravens, but this isn’t good enough, and we keep doing the same thing. A big time offense can win titles these days, but the defense needs to do something, and they are soft as can be. 

Well the offense has an excuse as we have ignored that side of the ball for too long...Defense has no excuses 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

My take is this… with all of the investment that they have on D it should be ***** elite. It isn’t. It’s a “hope they make a mistake on offense” type of D. 
 

they should have invested in protecting Josh instead. Other teams make stops without all their picks invested in a 200 man D line rotation and a 4 man CB rotation. 
 

the investment wouldn’t look near as bad if they played D like the Ravens did just the week before. Instead they were a dumpster fire that go walked all over. 

Well said. Our defense instead of generating turnovers,  it's like we wait for an overthrow int. or an unforced fumble.  We never jump a route or tackle someone so hard the ball pops out.  We're just not coached to be a ball hawking team.  All Leslie expects is backpedal into your assigned zones and hope for front 4 pressure that never comes.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Well said. Our defense instead of generating turnovers,  it's like we wait for an overthrow int. or an unforced fumble.  We never jump a route or tackle someone so hard the ball pops out.  We're just not coached to be a ball hawking team.  All Leslie expects is backpedal into your assigned zones and hope for front 4 pressure that never comes.

 

That will be why we are in the top 11 in defensive takeaways in 5 of Frazier's 6 years.

 

Not coached to take the ball away. For crying out loud make this ***** nonsense stop.

[Billever76]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

That will be why we are in the top 11 in defensive takeaways in 5 of Frazier's 6 years.

 

Not coached to take the ball away. For crying out loud make this ***** nonsense stop.

We get most of those turnovers and stats against weaker teams!...elite qbs smack us around and take our girl 😆 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Billever76 said:

We get most of those turnovers and stats against weaker teams!...elite qbs smack us around and take our girl 😆 

 

Good offenses are better than bad ones? Really??? Hold the ***** front page!

[Billever76]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Good offenses are better than bad ones? Really??? Hold the ***** front page!

Well if our defense falls apart every playoffs then what is the point of those stats...they are rendered meaningless