Fire Frazier? McDermott? Nah. Bills fans have to switch their mentality re: defense

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We went up 9-0 because special teams recovered us the ball inside their 5 yard line on a muffed punt. The offense didn't drive down the field for that score.

Wouldn't even have been in that AFCCG if not for Allen going off vs a Colts team w Phillip Rivers that was marching up and down on the defense

[FireChans]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Wouldn't even have been in that AFCCG if not for Allen going off vs a Colts team w Phillip Rivers that was marching up and down on the defense

True, but you could argue that as well for the defense annihilating the Ravens that year. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We went up 9-0 because special teams recovered us the ball inside their 5 yard line on a muffed punt. The offense didn't drive down the field for that score.

But the O did have a nice drive to go up 3 - 0 then after the fumbled snap scored a TD to go up 9 - 0.  The Chiefs then went down the field fr a TD to cut the elad to 9 - 7 which started their shredding of the Bills D. 

 

BTW I believe on the next drive the Bills were driving and had the ball at midfield when Singleterry dropped a short blitz beating pass that would have been a huge gain and maybe even a TD.

[CincyBillsFan]

46 minutes ago, FireChans said:

True, but you could argue that as well for the defense annihilating the Ravens that year. 

Yea, it's to bad that the Ravens aren't the team that was blocking the Bills from the SB the last two years.  All credit to Frazier for figuring out how to deal with Jackson and the Ravens unconventional offense.  Meanwhile the road to being AFC champions is blocked by 2 teams featuring elite QB's and potent offenses in Cincy & KC.  And Frazier's defense has been unable to deal with either of these teams through 3 playoff games.  And don't look now but Herbert & Lawrence may be doubling the # of teams blocking the Bills path to the SB with offenses that Fraziers D will not be able to stop.

 

 

[Georgia Bill]

Can we talk about the elephant in the room?  

Per source "Only one QB since 1994 has won a Super Bowl with a cap hit percentage higher than 13%, and that was 49ers legend Steve Young, whose deal predated the salary cap itself."  Ideal salary range for Super Bowl winning QB's

Josh Allen's hit next year will be $39.7 million, 17.4% of the cap.  Brady used to take pay at a lower compensation than most other star quarterbacks so that the team would have more to spend on better players around him.  Maybe Josh Allen should think about that. 

 

IF the money is spent wisely, donating $20 mill per year to the cause would improve his chances of getting a Super Bowl ring.  I know that's a big "if" but we can talk about spending on the O-line or the D all we want but the new problem is going to be finding money to spend given the massive amount of cap money Allen will be getting.  

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But the O did have a nice drive to go up 3 - 0 then after the fumbled snap scored a TD to go up 9 - 0.  The Chiefs then went down the field fr a TD to cut the elad to 9 - 7 which started their shredding of the Bills D. 

 

BTW I believe on the next drive the Bills were driving and had the ball at midfield when Singleterry dropped a short blitz beating pass that would have been a huge gain and maybe even a TD.

 

It would. But he dropped it. So it wasn't. That's the point. The O does not have a great record in our season ending games either. Last year was the exception not the rule.

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It would. But he dropped it. So it wasn't. That's the point. The O does not have a great record in our season ending games either. Last year was the exception not the rule.

and more importantly, NEITHER UNIT WAS HAMSTRUNG BY A FRANCHISE QB CONTRACT.

[Bferra13]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:19 PM, The Firebaugh Kid said:

The defense has to have playmakers. Not be a juggernaut. The Bills were different with Von Miller. He won that KC game in the end. Such a shame we lost him. 

Man I don't know. The whole dline kind of went MIA there after that KC game and then Von got hurt. It just wasn't the same team as after the bye. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Bferra13

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It would. But he dropped it. So it wasn't. That's the point. The O does not have a great record in our season ending games either. Last year was the exception not the rule.

The Offense was spectacular in last seasons divisional playoff loss to KC.  The defense has failed miserably in all 3 playoff exits.  And given the FACT that the majority of the high draft picks and free agent signings goes to the defense means that the defense should be consistently leading the Bills to victory.  The reality is that the offense has had the better of the defense in the playoffs over the last 3 seasons.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

and more importantly, NEITHER UNIT WAS HAMSTRUNG BY A FRANCHISE QB CONTRACT.

Paying a franchise QB a big contract doesn't seem to have hurt the Chiefs quest for the Super Bowl has it?  In fact if the Chiefs don't win the AFC championship on Sunday it will have a lot to do with their high paid franchise QB not being healthy and NOTHING to do with the size of his contract.

 

Bean & McD have CHOSEN to not surround Allen with high quality play makers and offensive line.  They have CHOSEN to follow the Carolina model and milk their QB for everything he's got while pushing their resources towards creating a dominating defense.  And it hasn't worked.  So they're now faced with a dilemma.  Do they double down on their failures or do they finally redirect the priorities to the offense?

 

But if you believe Allen's contract is hamstringing the Bills what do you suggest they do about it?  You know the contract that by this summer will not even be in the top 10 among QB's.  Maybe they can trade Allen and dump his contract. I'm sure some team will give them three #1 picks & three #2 picks for his services. Yea that's the ticket.  I mean the goal of the Bills franchise should be to make Bean & McD's life easier now that they've screwed up Allen's cheap rookie contract years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Paying a franchise QB a big contract doesn't seem to have hurt the Chiefs quest for the Super Bowl has it?  In fact if the Chiefs don't win the AFC championship on Sunday it will have a lot to do with their high paid franchise QB not being healthy and NOTHING to do with the size of his contract.

 

Bean & McD have CHOSEN to not surround Allen with high quality play makers and offensive line.  They have CHOSEN to follow the Carolina model and milk their QB for everything he's got while pushing their resources towards creating a dominating defense.  And it hasn't worked.  So they're now faced with a dilemma.  Do they double down on their failures or do they finally redirect the priorities to the offense?

 

But if you believe Allen's contract is hamstringing the Bills what do you suggest they do about it?  You know the contract that by this summer will not even be in the top 10 among QB's.  Maybe they can trade Allen and dump his contract. I'm sure some team will give them three #1 picks & three #2 picks for his services. Yea that's the ticket.  I mean the goal of the Bills franchise should be to make Bean & McD's life easier now that they've screwed up Allen's cheap rookie contract years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't.  I reject the OP entirely saying "this is life with a franchise QB under a big contract," BECAUSE for the last 3 seasons, we HAVE NOT had a big franchise QB contract. And the team has not been good enough. Next year, the big contract DOES hit.

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don't.  I reject the OP entirely saying "this is life with a franchise QB under a big contract," BECAUSE for the last 3 seasons, we HAVE NOT had a big franchise QB contract. And the team has not been good enough. Next year, the big contract DOES hit.

The big contract is a lot less important then the poor strategic choices being made by Bean & McD.  They chose to prioritize the D over the O while they were on Allen's rookie contract.  So sorry if I have no sympathy for the Allen contract argument.  The Chiefs have figured out how to remain elite in spite of Mahomes big contract.  Its on the Bills management to do likewise.  The alternative is to try to be elite without Allen behind center.  Good luck with that.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[papazoid]

frazier has got to go

 

#1 - when facing mutiple weapons....he retreats, backs up deep

 

#2 - he is predictable.....needs to mix it with blitzes and overloads from one side

[Joe Ferguson]

McClappy said, " We will learn from this" WHAT!?! He hasn't learn *****. He's going to continue to waste Josh Allen's prime years. That is downright criminal!

Edited January 28, 2023 by Joe Ferguson

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The big contract is a lot less important then the poor strategic choices being made by Bean & McD.  They chose to prioritize the D over the O while they were on Allen's rookie contract.  So sorry if I have no sympathy for the Allen contract argument.  The Chiefs have figured out how to remain elite in spite of Mahomes big contract.  Its on the Bills management to do likewise.  The alternative is to try to be elite without Allen behind center.  Good luck with that.

 

 

Are you reading what I’m saying lmao

[Bermuda Triangle]

I can't disagree with OP more.  The Cinci offense was impotent against BAL in the WC round, and in Week 18.  Last week was the best they looked since their first 1.5 drives in Week 17...against the Bills.  Yeah, the offense was crap today, but the defense is hot trash, as they generally are in big spots. 

 

Let's face it - offenses know what they're facing against the Bills.  All this talk about continuity, players knowing the defense, etc. ....how many huge plays did the defense allow this year?  Hell, this defense allowed Zach Friggin' Wilson to complete 72% of his passes earlier this season.

 

In many ways, :13 was a red herring, as far as Frazier was concerned.  The defense looked utterly hopeless and toothless in the drives preceding and succeeding the ":13" sequence, much the way they looked in the playoffs against KC in '21 and the Texans in the 2nd half/OT in '20.  Yet, the focus and spotlight remains on the squib kick decision.  The defense cost the Bills a playoff win and 2 3rd round picks that day - after that, there was NO CHANCE of anyone hiring Frazier as a HC.

 

Frazier can't be gone soon enough.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The Offense was spectacular in last seasons divisional playoff loss to KC.  The defense has failed miserably in all 3 playoff exits.  And given the FACT that the majority of the high draft picks and free agent signings goes to the defense means that the defense should be consistently leading the Bills to victory.  The reality is that the offense has had the better of the defense in the playoffs over the last 3 seasons.

 

 

Yes, I agree. But only because the offense was spectacular in the 2021 playoffs. Otherwise it has been bad too. And I don't disagree with you on asset allocation either. My point was not that the defense doesn't deserve scrutiny. It was that the offense does too and I think that is being missed a bit.

[BillsFan692]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:45 PM, GunnerBill said:

While I do see some of the points in the OP I don't totally buy them and agree with those saying the Bengals could have scored more had they needed to. 

 

But the offense is getting off very lightly as people obsess over the defense. If I'd said to you before the game "the Bills will score 10 points can they beat the Bengals?" Everyone to a man, woman and child would have said no. 

 

If I'd said the "the Bengals will score 35 (a full TD and 2XP more than they did) can the Bills still win?" it would have been mixed but some would have said yes. 

 

The defense needs some work, no doubt. It didn't have a good plan or good enough execution. But the Bills couldn't win with their offense sucking that bad. And while I agree with those who say the offense needs and deserves more assets allocating to it regardless of that 10 points and a pathetic playoff effort deserves the heat. 

 

Last year the D and coaching let the offense down. This year the offense was just as, I'd argue more, complicit in our playoff exit. 

The defense gave up two huge scoring drives to start the game and the weather worsened as the game went on.

 

Bengals chewed up the clock all game and had our O sitting on the sidelines defense couldn't ever get a stop.

 

Equal blame to go around

[Ayjent]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, I agree. But only because the offense was spectacular in the 2021 playoffs. Otherwise it has been bad too. And I don't disagree with you on asset allocation either. My point was not that the defense doesn't deserve scrutiny. It was that the offense does too and I think that is being missed a bit.

Yes.  The game plans for both sides have been lacking and they are getting both outcoached and outplayed. I also think that the DL players are not developing - which is likely a product that is some part bad picks, bad player development and scheme.   On offense it’s a lack of investment and scheme - there has been little push to impress the importance of timing and plays that make sure the most dangerous players get the ball to make plays.  There is no thing that Bills’ opponents stay awake at night fearful of other than what they could do with Allen improvising.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BillsFan692 said:

The defense gave up two huge scoring drives to start the game and the weather worsened as the game went on.

 

Bengals chewed up the clock all game and had our O sitting on the sidelines defense couldn't ever get a stop.

 

Equal blame to go around

 

Exactly my point.