Fire Frazier? McDermott? Nah. Bills fans have to switch their mentality re: defense

[DuckyBoys]

2 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

Fun stat -

 

The last first time NFL Head Coach with a DC background to win a Super Bowl was Mike Tomlin in 2008 season.

 

5 non defensive first time Head coaches have won a superbowl since then.

 

Also of note, In the entire history of the NFL, for ALL 56 Super Bowls.....  No Head Coach and QB combo who had been together more than 5 years without a Super Bowl, ever made it to one, let alone win one.  ....so if your coach and QB are together 5 years and you don't have a Super Bowl together, you aint getting one.  

 

None of that is encouraging for McDermott / Allen.   

I don't see McDermott winning a super bowl  He doesnt have the ability to outscheme or adjust on game day  Fine man , good mentor but not the guy I want in the critical moment to be in charge  He comes in with a plan and if it goes south he is always out of his depth

[peterpan]

Missed the forest through all the trees.

 

the Bills D constantly underperforms there talent level with poor scheme, underperforms there draft status, and underperforms in big moments.

 

regardless of anything else, they are playing worse than they should be.

[T master]

5 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

How many #2 wide receivers did Brady have during his Patriots career that had as many drops as Gabe Davis? Drops kill drives. And I'm afraid for Davis that horrible ball skills isn't something that can be corrected.

 

Brady wouldn't be considered the best QB of all time if his receivers consistently dropped passes like Allen's receivers did this season. 

 

This season according to ESPN he had 48 Receptions for 836 yds - 7 TD's & avg. 17.4 yds per reception & i found a thing that said he had 7 drops this season which yes i hated seeing him have those drops because that is something were not use to with him but I'm thinking the way Gabe is that will make him work twice as hard next season .

 

Plus in Beanes presser he said he trusts him & said no one will work harder than him to get better so i'll stay with him .

[GunnerBill]

While I do see some of the points in the OP I don't totally buy them and agree with those saying the Bengals could have scored more had they needed to. 

 

But the offense is getting off very lightly as people obsess over the defense. If I'd said to you before the game "the Bills will score 10 points can they beat the Bengals?" Everyone to a man, woman and child would have said no. 

 

If I'd said the "the Bengals will score 35 (a full TD and 2XP more than they did) can the Bills still win?" it would have been mixed but some would have said yes. 

 

The defense needs some work, no doubt. It didn't have a good plan or good enough execution. But the Bills couldn't win with their offense sucking that bad. And while I agree with those who say the offense needs and deserves more assets allocating to it regardless of that 10 points and a pathetic playoff effort deserves the heat. 

 

Last year the D and coaching let the offense down. This year the offense was just as, I'd argue more, complicit in our playoff exit. 

[DuckyBoys]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

While I do see some of the points in the OP I don't totally buy them and agree with those saying the Bengals could have scored more had they needed to. 

 

But the offense is getting off very lightly as people obsess over the defense. If I'd said to you before the game "the Bills will score 10 points can they beat the Bengals?" Everyone to a man, woman and child would have said no. 

 

If I'd said the "the Bengals will score 35 (a full TD and 2XP more than they did) can the Bills still win?" it would have been mixed but some would have said yes. 

 

The defense needs some work, no doubt. It didn't have a good plan or good enough execution. But the Bills couldn't win with their offense sucking that bad. And while I agree with those who say the offense needs and deserves more assets allocating to it regardless of that 10 points and a pathetic playoff effort deserves the heat. 

 

Last year the D and coaching let the offense down. This year the offense was just as, I'd argue more, complicit in our playoff exit. 

offense did not play well  I think many are still steaming from 13 seconds  The defense has come up short too many times in the playoffs  Always next year, sigh

[TAinLack.]

5 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Leslie was on record before the game as saying he didn’t want to change up too much, even though the Bengals were driving at will that Monday night, because he didn’t want to overthink things. Doesn’t matter what the Ravens did to slow down Joe B, Frazier was going to trot his 4-2-5 nickel defense out there like always and play his scheme. The same scheme that ALWAYS comes up small in the playoffs and gives up north of 30 pts.
 

Bengals scored 27 but they weren’t pressed to do much more because their defense has clamps on the Bills offense. If it was a shootout the Bengals easily would’ve put 40+ pts on the scoreboard. 

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  'Albert Einstein'.

[UConn James]

I saw someone write that Frazier’s contract was up this year, so it may not be a matter of firing him but not re-signing. Anyone know if this is correct?

[GoBills808]

The Bengals had over 150 yards of offense and 14pts halfway through the first QUARTER

 

 

[Behindenemylines]

Is this OP really saying it’s good enough to not be terrible and just OK is OK enough?    
 

are you fuc$&!g kidding me?

 

this defense sucks and Frazier sucks.  His philosophy is horrible and weak. Play to not lose and giving up points is acceptable as long as we score more.  That’s BS!  
 

my Take  is if I’m a DC ANY points scored is unacceptable   It’s our job to prevent scoring!  
 

our D is weak and so is our current DC. He should have been fired last year after his total meltdown.  
 

 

[Brand J]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The Bengals had over 150 yards of offense and 14pts halfway through the first QUARTER

 

 

That was an insanely bizarre stat. Somewhere around 6 or 8 mins left in the first quarter they had already racked up over 150 yards. Had something like 235 total against the Ravens. That’s not entirely personnel, folks. That’s scheme, or lackthereof. That’s a DC who didn’t devise a game plan specific to the Bengals. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

7 hours ago, Success said:

A lot of great points in the OP - but I'd still list Frazier as one of the problems.

 

His defenses here have been ranked high the past 3 years - but all 3 years, they have folded when it counted.  We couldn't stop KC 2 years in a row, and this past Sunday was a debacle for the D.  It's a good point that they adjusted, but Cincy moved the ball at will all day, and I felt like they could have scored more if they had to.

 

I don't know enough about schemes - but the scheme we play consistently seems too vanilla, too soft.  It seems like we're always playing D to try to protect a lead, instead of genuinely trying to turn a game.

 

I think about when we had Schwarz.  Did we have more talent then?  I don't really think so.  But he put his mark on that D - you could look at their play, and call it a Schwarz D.  And they could dictate a game.  

 

We have enough talent to do that now, but we don't.  It doesn't look like the coaching will change much, and that's disappointing.  I like Frazier & I was glad they hired him initially, but I feel like he's holding us back now.

 

I agree Success about your complaints with our D scheme.  We play our DB's in off man coverage almost always.  We do not make it difficult and uncomfortable for opposing WR's to get off the ball and get open.  This seems to make the  mentality of our defense passive.  Everyone of our players is not running around like a heat seeking missile looking for someone to destroy.  The Cowboys-49ers game comes to mind.  Both defenses were tearing it up and literally suffocating the opposing offenses.  The final score was 19-12.  With two TD's scored total.  Every player on both defenses played physical.  Who in our secondary is taking people out?  I dare say we are soft and do not play defense with any measure of anger and rage.  And I would argue that is from the passive approach taken by Frazier and McDermott.

 

But the talent of our defense is nothing special.  Other then Von Miller who is a difference maker on the D Line?  We have none.  Its that simple.  Our secondary looked lousy and confused at the end of the year as well.  Guys wide open all over the field.  Is anyone in the secondary a stud at this point in their careers?  I dare say no.  Maybe Elam and Benford get there.  But Tre looks slow.  Poyer looks old and slow.  Does Hyde come back next year?  Dane Jackson is a liability.  Taron Johnson was the best of the lot.  And he is a better tackler then cover guy.  Milano and Edmunds were the studs of the defense this year.  Hands down.  But Edmunds looked lost in the game against Cinci.  And he will want a fortune to resign.  He improved overall this year.  But we can not afford to pay him big money.  

 

My point is the defense needs help.  The offense also needs help.  Something has to give.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Since Sunday afternoon I've seen so many Bills fans complaining about Frazier, McDermott and the defense. Upset that they couldn't shut down one of the best offenses in the NFL in the divisional playoffs. 

 

The bottom line is this: Once Allen signed that massive contract, the Bills stopped being the type of team that can shut down powerful offenses and instead moved into the category of teams that have to outscore opponents.

 

The days of a dominant Bills defense are over. The NFL's system is built that way thanks to the salary cap. We have a franchise quarterback now that's paid that way. We're not going to be able to load the roster with defensive stars going forward. 

 

Josh Allen is one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL today. That means the offense has to be dominant. The defense just has to not be terrible. Giving up 27 points is not terrible. Scoring 10 points IS terrible. This is the mentality that Bills fans are not used to but have to get there: which is to focus on the offense instead of the defense.

 

It's not ideal to get down 0-14 to start a game. But it didn't phase me. I knew the defense would adjust and for the most part they did, only giving up 13 points the rest of the way. But the 0-14 start really didn't bother me much because we have Josh Allen - I fully expected the offense to start humming and not only get back into it but eventually take the lead. But they never did. The defense gave the offense opportunities to do so but the offense failed each time.

 

Frazier isn't a schematic genius but he's not going anywhere. The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible.

 

Instead, put the focus and pressure on where it now belongs - the offense:

 

• Dorsey has to get better in Year 2. The schemes he comes into the 2023 season with and his playcalling on game days.
• Beane has to upgrade the OLine. Draft, free agency...whatever. The OLine on Sunday was a total embarrassment. That's on Beane to fix it.
• Outside of Diggs, the wide receiver unit is simply not good enough. Gabe Davis ain't it. Neither is McKenzie. I like Shakir. But Beane needs to address this unit this offseason.
• Improvement from Knox, Cook, Hines - a lot of this has to do with Dorsey involving them more. But all three have major talent that must be properly utilized.

 

If all of this happens, Allen can relax and be the best quarterback on the planet in 2023. He will stop feeling like he has to be Superman every possession and just play.

 

Then the offense can be dominant.

 

That's how this team is going to win the Super Bowl. Not by being the 2000 Ravens. But by being the 1999 Rams.

Great thought. Wonder if they'll invest in offense 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

9 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

The defense has to have playmakers. Not be a juggernaut. The Bills were different with Von Miller. He won that KC game in the end. Such a shame we lost him. 

 

 If Hyde(Already medically cleared), White(Only a couple months shy of the 2 year mark once the season begins) and Miller are healthy next year this defense gets better even if they don't bring Poyer & Edmunds back. Miller should be good to go game 1, he said so in an interview on the Pat Mcafee show. I love Poyer and it's of no fault of his, he was so injured, but a slightly above average Strong Safety would match his play from the Packers game on. Edmunds, if he leaves, we all will find out just how good or bad he was. Hopefully at some point McDermott will remember his roots, who he learned under and switch to a more aggressive style defense. 

 

 Above all else, be your own team, with your own identity. Stop trying to build to beat certain teams, by the time you get there, there's either a new #1(1st NE, then the Chiefs, now maybe the Bengals?) or that team has changed their identity(Chiefs this year). Build through your own ideas and make teams switch things to keep up with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

While I do see some of the points in the OP I don't totally buy them and agree with those saying the Bengals could have scored more had they needed to. 

 

But the offense is getting off very lightly as people obsess over the defense. If I'd said to you before the game "the Bills will score 10 points can they beat the Bengals?" Everyone to a man, woman and child would have said no. 

 

If I'd said the "the Bengals will score 35 (a full TD and 2XP more than they did) can the Bills still win?" it would have been mixed but some would have said yes. 

 

The defense needs some work, no doubt. It didn't have a good plan or good enough execution. But the Bills couldn't win with their offense sucking that bad. And while I agree with those who say the offense needs and deserves more assets allocating to it regardless of that 10 points and a pathetic playoff effort deserves the heat. 

 

Last year the D and coaching let the offense down. This year the offense was just as, I'd argue more, complicit in our playoff exit. 

I disagree.  Before the offense could catch it's breath they were down 14 - 0.  Last year the offense performed magnificently in the loss to KC.  The simple fact is that in their last three playoff exits the defense has been woeful in all three.

 

And one of the reasons we're giving the offense a little slack is that this unit has not been the recipient of the lions share of quality free agent signings and draft picks. The defense should be held to a higher standard for the simple reason that this is the unit the Bills have focused most of their resources on.

 

 

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

So stop sinking all resources into the D, build the OL & WR room?

 

Can we pin this because this is the only conceivable place you can find this unique topic, clearly deserving of its own thread

[reddogblitz]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

If it wasn't snowing they could have scored 60

 

Don't get me wrong...the offense was just as terrible but saying the defense gave them a chance is ridiculous

 

The offense and defenses BOTH stunk up the joint. The only guys that played well in that game was the punter and Ba$$.

8 hours ago, Success said:

i think about when we had Schwarz.  Did we have more talent then?  I don't really think so.

 

I think Schwartz's defensive line with Mario, Jerry in his prime, Kyle, and Mr.Big Stuff were hands down better than what we have now.

[PauleeeWalnuts]

 “The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible” 

 

The system was indeed terrible against the Bengals and KC twice in the playoffs 

[Jimmy Harris 69]

The Bengals out coached Buffalo on offense and defense. When the team falters Coach gets tight and reverts to his default—-timid plans and rigid adherence to stopping long passes. Meanwhile the Bengals threw fast and short and ran down our throat. Our offensive plan was too obsessed with 30 yard gains, no will to run, no willingness to change protections to help Josh succeed or get the ball out fast. This backyard ball is not an offense. What in the h@ll do they do all week? And please, this “we were spent”is such crap. Good coaching means adjusting to conditions as they are—-not some pre-conceived notion.

[DuckyBoys]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

That was an insanely bizarre stat. Somewhere around 6 or 8 mins left in the first quarter they had already racked up over 150 yards. Had something like 235 total against the Ravens. That’s not entirely personnel, folks. That’s scheme, or lackthereof. That’s a DC who didn’t devise a game plan specific to the Bengals. 

its never game specific  Frazier treats it all the same  Since they arent changing things up week to week wonder what they work on?  I know it aint tackling

[seattlebillsfan]

9 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Maybe it's a bit much to say the defense gave the offense a chance in the 2nd quarter to get back into the game and even take the lead.

 

But consider the fact that the Bengals scored a total of THREE points against the Bills defense from 3:47 in the 1st quarter to 1:17 in the 3rd quarter when they scored their final touchdown.

 

32 minutes, 40 seconds - 3 points allowed

 

The offense was only able to score 10 points during that span of time. That was the offense's chance. And the offense blew it.

 

Bills D hold the Bengals to a FG with 1:49 to go in the 1st half - 7-17, Buffalo ball. Far from an insurmountable deficit. Chance to score a touchdown or at least a FG to build some momentum going into the half.

 

What does the offense do?

 

Punt.

 

Bills have the ball first to start the 2nd half. They settle for a FG after taking over 7 minutes off the clock.

 

Bengals score a touchdown. What does the Bills offense do to respond? Three-and-out capped off by a typical Gabe Davis drop on a dime from Allen.

 

The offense blew it.

that was the game for sure. I was sure the bills would use the halftime flip to go up 21-17. But they just couldn’t do it. Sad.