Fire Frazier? McDermott? Nah. Bills fans have to switch their mentality re: defense

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I understand what you're saying, really. But what about those games like KC last year, where Josh and the O are doing everything humanly possible to win the game, but we're up against one of the other 3 best QB's in the league, and need to get just one stop to ice the game? The problem isn't outscoring everyone in the regular season for 90% of your games with a winning Frazier formula, it's getting over the hump in the playoffs when you need good complementary football to win it all that last 10% (where Frazier inevitably refuses to change it up), jmho though.  

 

Here's my issue. It's not so much scheme related as it is fear related regarding the defense failing in the playoffs. Frazier plays to win and will get aggressive in the regular season but in the playoffs he stays passive, paralyzed by fear that he is going to give up a big play and lose the game.

 

But instead he gives up constant easy long drives with little resistance.

 

Case in point? Played KC twice a in the regular season last two years, held them to 20 both games. Played them twice in the playoffs got smoked for 38 and 42 points.

 

Why? It's the same opponent and the same defensive players and the same scheme. What changed?

 

It's simple...the way he is calling the game and the unwillingness to take chances and be aggressive on D. This passiveness when games matter because he is too afraid to lose prevents him and us from winning.

 

 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Since Sunday afternoon I've seen so many Bills fans complaining about Frazier, McDermott and the defense. Upset that they couldn't shut down one of the best offenses in the NFL in the divisional playoffs. 

 

The bottom line is this: Once Allen signed that massive contract, the Bills stopped being the type of team that can shut down powerful offenses and instead moved into the category of teams that have to outscore opponents.

 

The days of a dominant Bills defense are over. The NFL's system is built that way thanks to the salary cap. We have a franchise quarterback now that's paid that way. We're not going to be able to load the roster with defensive stars going forward. 

 

Josh Allen is one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL today. That means the offense has to be dominant. The defense just has to not be terrible. Giving up 27 points is not terrible. Scoring 10 points IS terrible. This is the mentality that Bills fans are not used to but have to get there: which is to focus on the offense instead of the defense.

 

It's not ideal to get down 0-14 to start a game. But it didn't phase me. I knew the defense would adjust and for the most part they did, only giving up 13 points the rest of the way. But the 0-14 start really didn't bother me much because we have Josh Allen - I fully expected the offense to start humming and not only get back into it but eventually take the lead. But they never did. The defense gave the offense opportunities to do so but the offense failed each time.

 

Frazier isn't a schematic genius but he's not going anywhere. The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible.

 

Instead, put the focus and pressure on where it now belongs - the offense:

 

• Dorsey has to get better in Year 2. The schemes he comes into the 2023 season with and his playcalling on game days.
• Beane has to upgrade the OLine. Draft, free agency...whatever. The OLine on Sunday was a total embarrassment. That's on Beane to fix it.
• Outside of Diggs, the wide receiver unit is simply not good enough. Gabe Davis ain't it. Neither is McKenzie. I like Shakir. But Beane needs to address this unit this offseason.
• Improvement from Knox, Cook, Hines - a lot of this has to do with Dorsey involving them more. But all three have major talent that must be properly utilized.

 

If all of this happens, Allen can relax and be the best quarterback on the planet in 2023. He will stop feeling like he has to be Superman every possession and just play.

 

Then the offense can be dominant.

 

That's how this team is going to win the Super Bowl. Not by being the 2000 Ravens. But by being the 1999 Rams.

I agree but one premise is flawed in your argument. The defense vs Cinci was terrible. Cinci scored at will and the Bills could not stop them. The Bengals scored 5 tines in their first 7 possessions. One of those possessions was when the clock ran out at halftime. 

 

Cinci ran the ball with ease add well as passing with ease. The defense had no answers. You fail to see that Cinci was burning the clock in controlled methodical precision. The Bills pass rush was ineffective vs a 2nd string oline. 

 

With that said, I agree with your premise. The Bills should focus 95% of their attention on the offense. Try to outscore teams. The defense is not reliable. Anything you can't out of them is a bonus. All in on the offense! 

[BrooklynBills]

Is it too much to ask that our defense has the ability to scheme up some gameplans in the playoffs that are the deciding factor.  Everyone wants to bring up these games that the offense failed and thats fair but they are failing because the other team is scheming up stuff that is disrupting our offense. 

 

AFCC vs. the Chiefs - the difference was that our D got abused and Spags outsmarted Daboll/Allen.

AFCDiv vs. the Chiefs - offense showed up this game. Defense was embarrassing.

AFCDiv vs. Bengals - the OL was bad but Anarumo outsmarted our OC/Allen with the blitzes from depth because all our routes are slow developing.

 

Is it too much to ask our defensive minded HC and our DC to scheme up a defensive plan that is the difference in the game? Are we forgetting that the Colts in 2020 moved the ball up and down the field? Or that we were a couple drops from that Miami game being a possible embarrassment as well?

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Since Sunday afternoon I've seen so many Bills fans complaining about Frazier, McDermott and the defense. Upset that they couldn't shut down one of the best offenses in the NFL in the divisional playoffs. 

 

The bottom line is this: Once Allen signed that massive contract, the Bills stopped being the type of team that can shut down powerful offenses and instead moved into the category of teams that have to outscore opponents.

 

The days of a dominant Bills defense are over. The NFL's system is built that way thanks to the salary cap. We have a franchise quarterback now that's paid that way. We're not going to be able to load the roster with defensive stars going forward. 

 

Josh Allen is one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL today. That means the offense has to be dominant. The defense just has to not be terrible. Giving up 27 points is not terrible. Scoring 10 points IS terrible. This is the mentality that Bills fans are not used to but have to get there: which is to focus on the offense instead of the defense.

 

It's not ideal to get down 0-14 to start a game. But it didn't phase me. I knew the defense would adjust and for the most part they did, only giving up 13 points the rest of the way. But the 0-14 start really didn't bother me much because we have Josh Allen - I fully expected the offense to start humming and not only get back into it but eventually take the lead. But they never did. The defense gave the offense opportunities to do so but the offense failed each time.

 

Frazier isn't a schematic genius but he's not going anywhere. The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible.

 

Instead, put the focus and pressure on where it now belongs - the offense:

 

• Dorsey has to get better in Year 2. The schemes he comes into the 2023 season with and his playcalling on game days.
• Beane has to upgrade the OLine. Draft, free agency...whatever. The OLine on Sunday was a total embarrassment. That's on Beane to fix it.
• Outside of Diggs, the wide receiver unit is simply not good enough. Gabe Davis ain't it. Neither is McKenzie. I like Shakir. But Beane needs to address this unit this offseason.
• Improvement from Knox, Cook, Hines - a lot of this has to do with Dorsey involving them more. But all three have major talent that must be properly utilized.

 

If all of this happens, Allen can relax and be the best quarterback on the planet in 2023. He will stop feeling like he has to be Superman every possession and just play.

 

Then the offense can be dominant.

 

That's how this team is going to win the Super Bowl. Not by being the 2000 Ravens. But by being the 1999 Rams.

This is just factually inorrect.  Our franchise QB hasn't been "paid that way" for the last 3 seasons. His contract hasn't even started yet.  Our defense has been annihilated in our last 3 playoff losses.  So they have BEEN terrible without salary cap restrictions from the QB for the last 3 seasons.  So they will likely be even worse going forward.

 

If our plan is "our young guys have to improve" we are so ***** *****.

Edited January 26, 2023 by FireChans

[Gunsgoodtime]

25 minutes ago, BeefCurtns said:

100 percent this. Wooow we won 13 games in the regular season. It amounted to 2 things in the playoffs. Jack and s#$%!

It was Jack and Coke for me, to each their own though.  We all have our way of coping 

[Just in Atlanta]

This defensive scheme has run its course in Buffalo. 

Frazier has consistently fielded a top 3 defense statistically in the regular season, yes, but has also consistently failed to scheme up a championship caliber strategy to take away weapons or get after the quarterback.

 

You must, simply must, take away an opponent's primary weapon and pressure the QB. Playing 10 yards off some of the best receivers in the league, with a quick-strike quarterback, in the divisional round of the playoffs, is a scheme destined for failure. Add that to the week before that against the Dolphins ... and the year before that against the Chiefs.

 

The body of work is there. And it's as conclusive as you get. Our fate isn't going to change under him if he were to stay next season.  

[mjt328]

I'm a defense guy.  

But after the last few seasons, I'm coming to agree.  Just focus on building the offense.

 

We've had a Top 5 defense for each of the last 4 seasons.  Yet they have gotten absolutely destroyed in our final losses over the last 3 postseasons.  Their only "good" performance saw them choke away a 16 point lead in the second half.

 

If this is what happens with a Top 5 defense against top quarterbacks, it's absolutely worthless to invest resources into that side of the ball.  

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Just no. Fix the defense. It’s a philosophy that’s broken. There are no rules saying if you have a good QB that your defense isn’t allowed to be good

If you’re saying that the coaching needs to be (a lot) better in the playoffs, then I wholeheartedly agree. 
 

If you’re saying we should continue to pour resources - high draft picks, cap space - into the defense at the expense of the offense, then you’re off your rocker. Because there are rules about how many draft picks and how much cap room we get. 

[Malazan]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bengals could have scored 41 in that game if they needed to. 

 

..and part of the reason they didn't do it anyway is they chewed up time on their drives. Something that Dorsey doesn't seem to understand. Yes, it's exciting to go 80 yards in 3-5 plays, but it's a lot more valuable to consistently be able to do it in 8-10.

 

There was that rumor last year about McDermott talking to Daboll about "complementary" football and the offense running more and the Bills offense changed and we all saw the playoffs.. Did he have that same conversation with Dorsey and, if so, why didn't Dorsey take it to heart? 

[WyoAZBillfan]

Agree to an extent, but this was practically the same team from last years play offs. Might add defensively, sure a different price here or there, majority was the same. 
Offense on the other hand did in fact have some “key” additions and they didn’t do squat, nor the old pieces. As stated OP the D adjusted (or Cincinnati slowed their trying down), 13 points. Josh can’t do it himself, nor can Diggs or Milano. Seemed few others actually wanted to be there. 

[JerseyBills]

I believe Hydes loss was huge. Our D is so reliant on disguising what the safeties are doing and Hyde/Poyer were so in sync and mastered the craft. 

Von obviously hurt as well

 

We were down to a 4th string safety 

 

If Tre, Hyde and Miller get back to form I think we'll be fine. Re sign Edmunds. 

 

Need to develop our D and invest in our O. Build around Allen and Diggs and put up 30+ 

48 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Here's my issue. It's not so much scheme related as it is fear related regarding the defense failing in the playoffs. Frazier plays to win and will get aggressive in the regular season but in the playoffs he stays passive, paralyzed by fear that he is going to give up a big play and lose the game.

 

But instead he gives up constant easy long drives with little resistance.

 

Case in point? Played KC twice a in the regular season last two years, held them to 20 both games. Played them twice in the playoffs got smoked for 38 and 42 points.

 

Why? It's the same opponent and the same defensive players and the same scheme. What changed?

 

It's simple...the way he is calling the game and the unwillingness to take chances and be aggressive on D. This passiveness when games matter because he is too afraid to lose prevents him and us from winning.

 

 

Great point! 💯💯

[Don Otreply]

Our Vaunted “D” has broken down every post season since it’s inception, it is they that need to changes their thought process. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Mr. WEO]

Defense is a paper tiger...

[NastyNateSoldiers]

4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Since Sunday afternoon I've seen so many Bills fans complaining about Frazier, McDermott and the defense. Upset that they couldn't shut down one of the best offenses in the NFL in the divisional playoffs. 

 

The bottom line is this: Once Allen signed that massive contract, the Bills stopped being the type of team that can shut down powerful offenses and instead moved into the category of teams that have to outscore opponents.

 

The days of a dominant Bills defense are over. The NFL's system is built that way thanks to the salary cap. We have a franchise quarterback now that's paid that way. We're not going to be able to load the roster with defensive stars going forward. 

 

Josh Allen is one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL today. That means the offense has to be dominant. The defense just has to not be terrible. Giving up 27 points is not terrible. Scoring 10 points IS terrible. This is the mentality that Bills fans are not used to but have to get there: which is to focus on the offense instead of the defense.

 

It's not ideal to get down 0-14 to start a game. But it didn't phase me. I knew the defense would adjust and for the most part they did, only giving up 13 points the rest of the way. But the 0-14 start really didn't bother me much because we have Josh Allen - I fully expected the offense to start humming and not only get back into it but eventually take the lead. But they never did. The defense gave the offense opportunities to do so but the offense failed each time.

 

Frazier isn't a schematic genius but he's not going anywhere. The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible.

 

Instead, put the focus and pressure on where it now belongs - the offense:

 

• Dorsey has to get better in Year 2. The schemes he comes into the 2023 season with and his playcalling on game days.
• Beane has to upgrade the OLine. Draft, free agency...whatever. The OLine on Sunday was a total embarrassment. That's on Beane to fix it.
• Outside of Diggs, the wide receiver unit is simply not good enough. Gabe Davis ain't it. Neither is McKenzie. I like Shakir. But Beane needs to address this unit this offseason.
• Improvement from Knox, Cook, Hines - a lot of this has to do with Dorsey involving them more. But all three have major talent that must be properly utilized.

 

If all of this happens, Allen can relax and be the best quarterback on the planet in 2023. He will stop feeling like he has to be Superman every possession and just play.

 

Then the offense can be dominant.

 

That's how this team is going to win the Super Bowl. Not by being the 2000 Ravens. But by being the 1999 Rams.

Coaches don’t count against the cap so we need to find someone that can do better with less. Vic in Frazier out! Please!

[Comebackkid]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I have no idea why Dorsey deserves another season.  A lot of fans seem to be saying "He will improve next year" or "He has to improve" or "He should be given a pass as this was his first season."

 

What he has done with the offense is not close to top level play design.  I would NEVER have hired an OC with zero experience being an OC!  I'm not sure why people think he will be a lot better next year simply b/c it will be another new season.  Where is he going to get his education from?  Learning from his mistakes?  Watching film!? 

 

I'd replace him for sure with an experienced OC.  Someone has to be out there.

 

I feel like we are in for a regression next year and he'll be gone then.  Why not gives ourselves a shot at next season before we lose it?

 

 

agree. not even sure Dorsey is on Allen's level let alone able to take him and offense to another level. 

[Dubie54]

I understand your points, just don't agree with it.

 

Our offense became predictable and we didn't maximize our talent.

 

* Knox would be invisible for long stretches at a time. Does that happen with the Chiefs and Kelce? Knox is a weapon on offense and we should have a game plan that mixes him regularly. 

 

* We never figured out how to use Hines effectively as a receiver, and to some extent the same can be said for Cook. But I'm more dumbfounded by Hines, because he was a definite weapon in Indy. How can the OC not be able to integrate a talented back like him into the offense?

 

* I know Davis had issues with drops but I would also argue that the routes they had him running didn't utilize his skill set. He destroyed KC last year.

 

* How do let Hodgins get away from us? He moves on to the Giants and look at how they are using his skill set. I am not at all convinced that this OC knows how to maximize what he has in front of him and is far too inexperienced for what the Bills need right now.    

 

This bend but not break Defense is far too soft.

 

* Take the 13 seconds - it says everything about the mentality of Frazier and McD. The same thing was happening in the Cinci game - no one attacking receivers at the line of scrimmage on key plays.

 

* Why is it that other teams seem to use the blitz so much more effectively than us? We seem to have an aversion for it and it speaks to a general lack of aggressiveness that I see in this defense.

 

    

[DuckyBoys]

the big issue is the coaches believe their scheme is just fine and it was lack of execution and lack of talent that exposed the defense  So we will once again invest more resources on that side of the ball  Personally I hate watching this defense on game days  Even when they limit a team its not the style defense I want to watch  Soft zone conservative D waiting for a team to make a mistake or have a penalty or lucky turnover to stall a drive They just fired the safeties coach  Guess he was the reason they got wrecked Sunday

[Thrivefourfive]

I agree that the offense was awful. And I agree that the defense isn’t good enough. What are talking about here.

[Zerovoltz]

Fun stat -

 

The last first time NFL Head Coach with a DC background to win a Super Bowl was Mike Tomlin in 2008 season.

 

5 non defensive first time Head coaches have won a superbowl since then.

 

Also of note, In the entire history of the NFL, for ALL 56 Super Bowls.....  No Head Coach and QB combo who had been together more than 5 years without a Super Bowl, ever made it to one, let alone win one.  ....so if your coach and QB are together 5 years and you don't have a Super Bowl together, you aint getting one.  

 

None of that is encouraging for McDermott / Allen.   

[BillsFan692]

1 minute ago, Zerovoltz said:

Fun stat -

 

The last first time NFL Head Coach with a DC background to win a Super Bowl was Mike Tomlin in 2008 season.

 

5 non defensive first time Head coaches have won a superbowl since then.

 

Also of note, In the entire history of the NFL, for ALL 56 Super Bowls.....  No Head Coach and QB combo who had been together more than 5 years without a Super Bowl, ever made it to one, let alone win one.  ....so if your coach and QB are together 5 years and you don't have a Super Bowl together, you aint getting one.  

 

None of that is encouraging for McDermott / Allen.   

Yah its not good all these fans saying the window is still open are dreaming