Fire Frazier? McDermott? Nah. Bills fans have to switch their mentality re: defense

[GoBills808]

49 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bengals could have scored 41 in that game if they needed to. 

If it wasn't snowing they could have scored 60

 

Don't get me wrong...the offense was just as terrible but saying the defense gave them a chance is ridiculous

[4th&long]

That massive contract doesn’t kick in till next year. The defense has fallen on its face in the playoffs the last three years. His contract is irrelevant to how the D played in the past, that is what people want Fraizer fired for, for how they played in the past not the future.

[Success]

A lot of great points in the OP - but I'd still list Frazier as one of the problems.

 

His defenses here have been ranked high the past 3 years - but all 3 years, they have folded when it counted.  We couldn't stop KC 2 years in a row, and this past Sunday was a debacle for the D.  It's a good point that they adjusted, but Cincy moved the ball at will all day, and I felt like they could have scored more if they had to.

 

I don't know enough about schemes - but the scheme we play consistently seems too vanilla, too soft.  It seems like we're always playing D to try to protect a lead, instead of genuinely trying to turn a game.

 

I think about when we had Schwarz.  Did we have more talent then?  I don't really think so.  But he put his mark on that D - you could look at their play, and call it a Schwarz D.  And they could dictate a game.  

 

We have enough talent to do that now, but we don't.  It doesn't look like the coaching will change much, and that's disappointing.  I like Frazier & I was glad they hired him initially, but I feel like he's holding us back now.

 

[Franco_92]

Had the bills offense come to play, we were going to allow a lot more than 27. For the same reason we could have put up a lot more than 24 in NE december 1st if we needed to.

[Wayne Arnold]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

If it wasn't snowing they could have scored 60

 

Don't get me wrong...the offense was just as terrible but saying the defense gave them a chance is ridiculous

 

Maybe it's a bit much to say the defense gave the offense a chance in the 2nd quarter to get back into the game and even take the lead.

 

But consider the fact that the Bengals scored a total of THREE points against the Bills defense from 3:47 in the 1st quarter to 1:17 in the 3rd quarter when they scored their final touchdown.

 

32 minutes, 40 seconds - 3 points allowed

 

The offense was only able to score 10 points during that span of time. That was the offense's chance. And the offense blew it.

 

Bills D hold the Bengals to a FG with 1:49 to go in the 1st half - 7-17, Buffalo ball. Far from an insurmountable deficit. Chance to score a touchdown or at least a FG to build some momentum going into the half.

 

What does the offense do?

 

Punt.

 

Bills have the ball first to start the 2nd half. They settle for a FG after taking over 7 minutes off the clock.

 

Bengals score a touchdown. What does the Bills offense do to respond? Three-and-out capped off by a typical Gabe Davis drop on a dime from Allen.

 

The offense blew it.

[2003Contenders]

46 minutes ago, Success said:

A lot of great points in the OP - but I'd still list Frazier as one of the problems.

 

His defenses here have been ranked high the past 3 years - but all 3 years, they have folded when it counted.  We couldn't stop KC 2 years in a row, and this past Sunday was a debacle for the D.  It's a good point that they adjusted, but Cincy moved the ball at will all day, and I felt like they could have scored more if they had to.

 

I don't know enough about schemes - but the scheme we play consistently seems too vanilla, too soft.  It seems like we're always playing D to try to protect a lead, instead of genuinely trying to turn a game.

 

I think about when we had Schwarz.  Did we have more talent then?  I don't really think so.  But he put his mark on that D - you could look at their play, and call it a Schwarz D.  And they could dictate a game.  

 

We have enough talent to do that now, but we don't.  It doesn't look like the coaching will change much, and that's disappointing.  I like Frazier & I was glad they hired him initially, but I feel like he's holding us back now.

 

 

Well, I would say that the defense set the tone with Mario Williams (in his prime), K. Williams (in his prime), M. Dareus (back when he was seriously motivated), and an up-and-coming J. Hughes. All four of those guys were arguably pro bowlers -- and all 4 flirted with double-digit sacks. If we still had a front four like that now, I suspect that McD and Frazier would be able to do more with this defense.

[Man with No Name]

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Since Sunday afternoon I've seen so many Bills fans complaining about Frazier, McDermott and the defense. Upset that they couldn't shut down one of the best offenses in the NFL in the divisional playoffs. 

 

The bottom line is this: Once Allen signed that massive contract, the Bills stopped being the type of team that can shut down powerful offenses and instead moved into the category of teams that have to outscore opponents.

 

The days of a dominant Bills defense are over. The NFL's system is built that way thanks to the salary cap. We have a franchise quarterback now that's paid that way. We're not going to be able to load the roster with defensive stars going forward. 

 

Josh Allen is one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL today. That means the offense has to be dominant. The defense just has to not be terrible. Giving up 27 points is not terrible. Scoring 10 points IS terrible. This is the mentality that Bills fans are not used to but have to get there: which is to focus on the offense instead of the defense.

 

It's not ideal to get down 0-14 to start a game. But it didn't phase me. I knew the defense would adjust and for the most part they did, only giving up 13 points the rest of the way. But the 0-14 start really didn't bother me much because we have Josh Allen - I fully expected the offense to start humming and not only get back into it but eventually take the lead. But they never did. The defense gave the offense opportunities to do so but the offense failed each time.

 

Frazier isn't a schematic genius but he's not going anywhere. The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible.

 

Instead, put the focus and pressure on where it now belongs - the offense:

 

• Dorsey has to get better in Year 2. The schemes he comes into the 2023 season with and his playcalling on game days.
• Beane has to upgrade the OLine. Draft, free agency...whatever. The OLine on Sunday was a total embarrassment. That's on Beane to fix it.
• Outside of Diggs, the wide receiver unit is simply not good enough. Gabe Davis ain't it. Neither is McKenzie. I like Shakir. But Beane needs to address this unit this offseason.
• Improvement from Knox, Cook, Hines - a lot of this has to do with Dorsey involving them more. But all three have major talent that must be properly utilized.

 

If all of this happens, Allen can relax and be the best quarterback on the planet in 2023. He will stop feeling like he has to be Superman every possession and just play.

 

Then the offense can be dominant.

 

That's how this team is going to win the Super Bowl. Not by being the 2000 Ravens. But by being the 1999 Rams.

BUT WE ARE SPENDING ALL OF OUR MONEY AND DRAFT CAPITAL ON DEFENSE!

[LABILLBACKER]

So called "Dominant" defenses don't get thrown around like rag dolls every year in the playoffs.  This idea that we somehow have a top 10 defense during the regular season was a masquerade.  At this point F the defense.  Put 100% of your draft and resources into surrounding your #1 asset.  It's not like we're going to stop anyone defensively in the playoffs,  ever.

Edited January 26, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Can't argue that. I have zero explanation as to how that defensive philosophy is going to produce a positive outcome. 

This embarrassing zone will always give up a positive outcome unless we acquire Aaron Donald and Nick Bosa to play with Von.  You literally have to have an all Pro front 4 for the Tampa 2 to work. Rousseau,  AJE and Boogie will never be those guys.

Edited January 26, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[Man with No Name]

once we get to the playoffs, it appears we have either all replacement level players on D, or a terrible scheme. Right now we might as well be lighting money on fire. 

[jkeerie]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

To me, this is more about what happened when the playoffs hit on both sides of the ball

Exactly!  The entire team sucked...which does include the coaches.  McD said as much in his presser, as did Beane.  We as fans think we have the answers.  We definitely need better players.  Some on defense we'll get back as they come back from injury.  I can't help but think that with a healthy Hyde and Poyer, even without Von, we would have been better on Sunday, but I'm using just what I've seen in the past.  Offensively we are lacking and need to bring in new blood.  The coaching needs to be better though on both sides of the ball to better utilize the players brought in.

[Pags24]

The offense and Defense were terrible on Sunday.  It was ugly, our OL had their worst game of the year.  That being said the D was slightly worse.  The biggest issue I have with the whole thing and the reason why I put a lot of blame on the coaching staff is they got a glimpse of what Cinci would look like in that Monday night game.  They were plowing through our D that night too.....and McD/Frazier do nothing different??  I really think Frazier is one of the worst D-Co's in the league......I'm interested to see what Spagnuolo does Sunday against Cinci.  If the Bengals still have 2-3 OL starters out I bet you he'll send steady heat and try and put pressure on them.   

[gordong]

We will never win a superbowl with Frazier as DC...  

[ChrisWatson#21]

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Would have been more yards and points if K.C.(2020) & Cincinnati didn’t take their foot off the gas.  Facing Wilson, Jones, Tua, Heineke, Mills etc etc is one thing facing Mahomes & Burrow is another.  Heck even Watson and Rivers too made his defense look silly in those playoff games.  

[Brand J]

7 minutes ago, Pags24 said:

The offense and Defense were terrible on Sunday.  It was ugly, our OL had their worst game of the year.  That being said the D was slightly worse.  The biggest issue I have with the whole thing and the reason why I put a lot of blame on the coaching staff is they got a glimpse of what Cinci would look like in that Monday night game.  They were plowing through our D that night too.....and McD/Frazier do nothing different??  I really think Frazier is one of the worst D-Co's in the league......I'm interested to see what Spagnuolo does Sunday against Cinci.  If the Bengals still have 2-3 OL starters out I bet you he'll send steady heat and try and put pressure on them.   

Leslie was on record before the game as saying he didn’t want to change up too much, even though the Bengals were driving at will that Monday night, because he didn’t want to overthink things. Doesn’t matter what the Ravens did to slow down Joe B, Frazier was going to trot his 4-2-5 nickel defense out there like always and play his scheme. The same scheme that ALWAYS comes up small in the playoffs and gives up north of 30 pts.
 

Bengals scored 27 but they weren’t pressed to do much more because their defense has clamps on the Bills offense. If it was a shootout the Bengals easily would’ve put 40+ pts on the scoreboard. 

[Big Blitz]

McD himself said they prioritize positions and those priority positions change depending how the game has evolved.   
 

Instead of signing Von Miller, was AJ Brown off the table in a trade?  Did we try?  I’m sure there was little chance the Titans trade him in conference.  
 

But what about Hill?  
 

 

The vast majority of …. everyone …. said this team needed a pass rusher after 2021 and I think a lot of us - more importantly the team - operated under Davis as being a legit WR 2 that can go to WR 1.  
 

Just didn’t work out.  Yet. 

[26TrapDraw]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

To me, this is more about what happened when the playoffs hit on both sides of the ball

100 percent this. Wooow we won 13 games in the regular season. It amounted to 2 things in the playoffs. Jack and s#$%!

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Allowing 27 points is not in and of itself terrible. 

 

If you look at all the stats for the game it's pretty easy to say the defense was terrible. 

 

27 points 

412 yards

30 first downs

2 forced punts (1 in garbage time)

1 sack (2 yards lost)

0 turnovers

 

If our offense gave us a ~5% chance of winning the game our defense gave us <1% chance of winning. 

 

 

 

 

[Homey D. Clown]

I wanted Frazier gone after the 13 second humiliation 1 year prior.  there wasn't a single game that my mind was changed.  the cincy game felt like an entire 60 minutes of that 13 second drive.  

 

Zone coverage!  every guy was open with not a defnder near them within 7 yards!  What a joke.  If he's not gone, expect  this team to go no further next year.

[Nextmanup]

I have no idea why Dorsey deserves another season.  A lot of fans seem to be saying "He will improve next year" or "He has to improve" or "He should be given a pass as this was his first season."

 

What he has done with the offense is not close to top level play design.  I would NEVER have hired an OC with zero experience being an OC!  I'm not sure why people think he will be a lot better next year simply b/c it will be another new season.  Where is he going to get his education from?  Learning from his mistakes?  Watching film!? 

 

I'd replace him for sure with an experienced OC.  Someone has to be out there.

 

I feel like we are in for a regression next year and he'll be gone then.  Why not gives ourselves a shot at next season before we lose it?