The Bills have a Tre White problem

[transient]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I feel everyone is different. It’s possible to return after 8 months. Von is a different animal also. But I am definitely worried about him returning at all. That contract is such a disaster. We lost cap space and the player. Very difficult injury to absorb.

In Von's case, we just proved we don't need him in the regular season, we need him in the playoffs. IMO, let him rehab the whole first 3/4 of the season, and then round him into shape for the playoff stretch run. Less chance of getting him injured again and he'll be fresh when we need him most. It will give a new DC (hopefully) time to iron out the kinks in the defense without him just in time to add a pass rushing weapon when we need it most.

[PrimeTime101]

Scheme put Tre White 7-8 yards away from the WR'S while the WR's were catching the ball in that same zone. NOW. When trey was a step or 2 behind in a couple of games ago, I would agree. but not now

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

39 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Mac Jones did whatever he wanted with our CBs.  We played a 3rd string QB, and then Burrow did whatever he wanted with our CBs.

 

 

What are you going on about? Mac Jones had 195 yards and 1 TD in the 1st meeting, 2nd meeting Mac Jones threw for 243 yards 3 TD and 3 INT (Tre White had an INT in this game) . If you're going to trash someone at least do a little homework first.

[May Day 10]

I had an ACL reconstruction and went through the whole gammit.

 

 

IMO, CB would be by far the worst/hardest position in sports to return to.  Just the speed you need to have as well as cutting around.  Not just cutting, but reacting to others' movements.  At least a WR, RB, etc could compensate if they don't totally 'trust' their knee as they are the ones typically dictating/knowing where they go.

 

For me, it was about 18 months until the thing was out of my head, there was no 'sensation' in my knee, and I was as I was prior to the injury.  The mental aspect was very tough.

 

 

I would bet that White (as long as mentally he is all-in after his injury and the Hamlin situation) will be 100% by training camp.

[BillsShredder83]

56 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

The whole Tre White situation to start the year was strange at first, but then you seen him get on the field, and you realized why he wasn't playing.  The guy was not very good this year at all.  Some will blame the injury, but how many games you going to give a guy till he is back to playing up to his very large payday?

 

I think White will never be what he was.  He looked old out there, even after just playing 5 or 6 games this year.  I also think his playing style limits the entire defense on the type of defense we can play.  He does not excel in press man and needs to play off guys.  I personally think this team needs to play more press man.  Tough to transition to that when your "number 1" CB and 16 million dollar man can't play it at a top level.

 

Problem with White is, you can't get out of his contract.  His dead cap is higher than if he is on the team.

 

The only option I really see, is if Taron Johnson takes over for Poyer at safety.  Tre moves to nickel corner where he will be less exposed on an island, and you bring in another press man outside CB to pair with Elam.  Elam's strength is press man and it was really head scratching you drafted him and then played him in a zone.

 

 

Coming off acl surgery is how u want to judge the guy, knowing whats been apparent in the league about this injury.

 

You want to then move a top NCB in the league to a new position, and move a top cb in the league to a new position, where who fills in outside? Dane jackson?

 

This is brilliant, wake up Beane!!

[H2o]

13 minutes ago, The Avenger said:

I'm afraid this does not bode well for Von Miller - he's 6 years older than Tre and I question how much he'll be back next season and if he'll ever get back to where he was pre-injury.

White's injury was more extensive than Miller. They didn't even know Von's was torn until they went in to clean up some cartilage and found out. White also plays CB, a much more demanding position on your knees. White apparently had some mental issues the first couple of months after the surgery as well. It was his first major injury of any kind. He said he was locked in a basement and basically had to be dragged out. Von's already out on his own and rehabbing to get back. He attacks things differently. I do think Von could miss the month of September, possibly even October, but I bet he gets in at least 8-9 games and is good to go once he gets back on the field. 

[gobills404]

27 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

That’s from December 29th, doesn’t include the Cincy torching before game was cancelled.  The Dolphins and Bengals gameplan was to target him.  There was no playing with fire.  He was bad. 

That must be why Chase and Higgins both went below their season averages in catches and yards. Sorry but none of the numbers agree with you.

Edited January 26, 2023 by gobills404

[Logic]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Bills don’t have a Tre problem (at least not yet), they have a problem with inaccurate expectations on Tre from fans this past season.  
 

This line pretty much sums up. So correct that I felt the need to re-post it here instead of trying to add anything.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

27 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Milano and Edmunds caught two of the three INTs.

 

White's INT was Mac Jones giving him a gift.  Tre was playing way off and the ball sailed.  

 

Yeah INT's to Linebackers don't count....we don't drop them in coverage or anything.  It also wasn't a sailed ball lol.  It was a one on one fade that White played well and intercepted it.

 

I find it amazing that Mac Jones could do whatever he wanted against our DB's but then decided to sail a ball to get picked off.  Why would he do that?

[Sestak4ever]

As many have said this injury takes time to fully heal and regain your speed and form. Tre is a dog, extremely smart and he leaves everything on the field. He will be fine next season. There are a lot more parts of him other than the physical game that are difficult to replace.

[Your Brown Eye]

It looked like he was a half a step faster by the end of the year than when he first came back, the question is though, is the half a step all that we will see?

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, gobills404 said:

“Not very good” by Tre White standards is still better than the vast majority of starting CBs.

 

This should include the penalties too. It also doesn't include the Cincy game, where he was being lit up like an Xmas tree. I know the game didn't count, but his performance was not good. 

31 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

That must be why Chase and Higgins both went below their season averages in catches and yards. Sorry but none of the numbers agree with you.

The reason they were below their average was because they got off to such a big lead and realized they could matriculate down the field at a more leisurely pace on almost every possession. That game was the opposite of a shootout. It was a curb-stomping in which the situation dictated ball control/long drives to simply end the game. Plus the Bills' defense had no answers.

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, H2o said:

White's injury was more extensive than Miller. They didn't even know Von's was torn until they went in to clean up some cartilage and found out. White also plays CB, a much more demanding position on your knees. White apparently had some mental issues the first couple of months after the surgery as well. It was his first major injury of any kind. He said he was locked in a basement and basically had to be dragged out. Von's already out on his own and rehabbing to get back. He attacks things differently. I do think Von could miss the month of September, possibly even October, but I bet he gets in at least 8-9 games and is good to go once he gets back on the field. 

 

 

Yeah I suspect Von Miller will be back early next season........and the reality that most athletes return faster than Tre did will be restored as a norm in the mindset of most Bills fans.    While Beane fluffed Tre's rehab to the media DURING the comeback........I think the implication after the fact...."Von's been thru this before"....... is that they think White could have handled it better.    I didn't see White's logic in putting on a bunch of muscle in his upper body to carry around on a surgically repaired knee.  When you play a speed and quickness position you need to shed weight as you age to keep that.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Milano and Edmunds caught two of the three INTs.

 

White's INT was Mac Jones giving him a gift.  Tre was playing way off and the ball sailed.  

So now we’re giving circumstances on interceptions, funny other teams corners don’t get held to that standard

[Dillenger4]

Tre - I have always thought he is just average. He shines when we don't need him in blowout games and can't defend when we do need him. He has never been an All Pro even though he has been tagged as one. He had 3 penalties vs. the Bengals (2 in playoff game, 1 in the Damar game). Let him rehab all he wants - he will still be the average wimpy CB that he is. The OP is bang on correct. he is a problem.

Elam and Jackson hit HARD. Tre is a wimp. He has no "drive". Let's get real about this and I don't want to hear "ALL pro, injury bla blah blah". You wait and see... he will never be a stud. I love The Bills! But it's easy to pick out who the weak links are....

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

The whole Tre White situation to start the year was strange at first, but then you seen him get on the field, and you realized why he wasn't playing.  The guy was not very good this year at all.  Some will blame the injury, but how many games you going to give a guy till he is back to playing up to his very large payday?

 

A lot of players have said they were not "themselves" the first year back from an ACL.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I suspect Von Miller will be back early next season........and the reality that most athletes return faster than Tre did will be restored as a norm in the mindset of most Bills fans.    While Beane fluffed Tre's rehab to the media DURING the comeback........I think the implication after the fact...."Von's been thru this before"....... is that they think White could have handled it better.    I didn't see White's logic in putting on a bunch of muscle in his upper body to carry around on a surgically repaired knee.  When you play a speed and quickness position you need to shed weight as you age to keep that.

Unrelated point, but I noticed that the Cincy corners were pounding Bills receivers at the line and in a way that could have been called a penalty (hands to face, etc.). KC did it to the Bills in 2020, and then TB did it KC in the SB. The holds and PIs get called in the playoffs, albeit at a lower rate, but the stuff that happens at the line seems to never get called once the playoffs roll around. Playing zone off coverage like the Bills always do -- giving free releases to the likes of Tyreek Hill, Waddle (who if he had a better QB and better hands should have had over 150 yards receiving), and Chase -- seems to me a bad strategy for the postseason. Either that or they have no faith that their CBs can keep up. Point is, their scheme is dubious in the postseason vs. good QBs. It works against running qbs in wind games (Lamar Jackson), but that's never going to be the norm. I mean, Philip Rivers, who couldn't throw the ball 40 yards in the air by that point, absolutely carved them up in the postseason. And the Pats simply had terrible receivers last year with a weak-armed QB. Versus Burrow and Mahomes, forget about it. I think they'd also struggle in the postseason vs. Herbert and Lawrence if they insist on predominantly playing off. 

[oldmanfan]

And the overreaction insanity begins...

[dave mcbride]

19 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And the overreaction insanity begins...

It is worth looking at the numbers. CBs don't do so well with regard to returning from ACL injuries. You have to go to the chart at the bottom because the top-line numbers conflate all DBs (CBs and safeties). 2 years after an acl tear, 29 percent are still in the league, and 3 years it's 28 percent. Not saying he can't come back to full strength, but the numbers are the numbers:

 

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23259671221079637

 

Here is a screen shot of the chart.

Edited January 26, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Airseven]

There’s a “problem” if White can’t perform next season. While there were oddities with him this season, it’s not uncommon for athletes to take over a year to regain trust and form after this injury. Getting him physically back on the field was only step one.