Bills Coaching Staff Changes Thread

[Jauronimo]

Just now, papazoid said:

how many other position coaches lost 3 pro bowlers for significant time....

 

life can be cruel...

Must be a function of Jaquan, Lewis, and to a lesser extent, Hamlin struggling when put into action such that they're scrambling to bring back guys like Marlowe.  As much as the fans have extremely strong opinions about position coaches, we have almost no visibility into what they do to inform an opinion on their performance.  But that is hardly an obstacle to some.

[Bruffalo]

Sacrifice so media outlets like WGR can say "See, they're making changes. You know what I mean?" even though Frazier will still trot out the most basic scheme that relies on our players just being substantially better than theirs.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

9 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I ask you for one example of him being a yes man and any rationale as to why he should be fired and posing that question means that I must believe he did a great job?  Making up *****, getting defensive about it, and making up more ***** is a poor way to have a conversation.

 

I did watch the Bengals game.  Phillips is headed for surgery today.  DaQuan Jones didn't play.  Oliver's pec injury had him playing with half his torso in a brace.  Miller was on IR. Line play looked pretty amazing when everyone was healthy early in the year.  I guess success is a function of talent and lack of success lands only on coaching? 

You're right to point out the injuries and early season line play. However, what about Boogie, Epenesa, Rousseau who were also invisible Sunday (Boogie's cringe-worthy "sack" dance notwithstanding after jumping early)? Also, Von as a force of nature really elevated everyone around him, and the Bills had few if any answers in his absence. 

[Beck Water]

29 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Maybe it goes more to show that not many 6th round players should be starting safeties?

 

Poyer was a 7th round draft pick and Hyde was a 5th round draft pick, and both have done very well for us.

 

On the other hand the Bengals have 2 2nd-round picks as their safeties

KC has a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick

 

On the third hand, the SF49ers have an UDFA and a 5th round player as their safeties

The Eagles have a 6th round pick and a 4th round player

 

It's probably true overall that not many 6th round draftees wind up starting anywhere on a football team

 

It seems like a "lock" that one of the two teams playing in the Superbowl is gonna be starting late round safeties

 

6 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

You're right to point out the injuries and early season line play. However, what about Boogie, Epenesa, Rousseau who were also invisible Sunday (Boogie's cringe-worthy "sack" dance notwithstanding after jumping early)? Also, Von as a force of nature really elevated everyone around him, and the Bills had few if any answers in his absence. 

 

It seems to be a general consensus that the Bills DL (maybe any DL) critically depends upon being gap sound AND getting pressure up the middle.  That wasn't happening last Sunday for the Bills, due to the injuries the post you responded to pointed out.

 

I personally think that the 1TDT is of especial importance to McDermott, but I've been told I'm incorrect there by someone who ought to know more than I so 🤷‍♂️.  All I know is that Edmunds and Milano looked hella better this season with the DL keeping them clean, and Oliver was here last year but DaQuan Jones wasn't.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Beck Water

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Must be a function of Jaquan, Lewis, and to a lesser extent, Hamlin struggling when put into action such that they're scrambling to bring back guys like Marlowe.  As much as the fans have extremely strong opinions about position coaches, we have almost no visibility into what they do to inform an opinion on their performance.  But that is hardly an obstacle to some.

Especially the Cowboys, who are at 5 and counting...McCarthy lives to fight another day as well. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

28 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Just a guess...

 

Those safeties, Hamlin and Johnson, have been on the roster for a few seasons and it was expected that they were being coached up to be able to step right in when Hyde and Poyer aged out. Hamlin did "just ok" as long as he had Poyer telling him what to do and even then was shakey, and Johnson was complete garbage. They were not nearly as developed or ready as anyone hoped.

 

I dunno. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

This was his first year as Safeties coach, so that's clearly not all on him, and all the backups are 6th, 7th round and undrafted. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

It seems to be a general consensus that the Bills DL (maybe any DL) critically depends upon being gap sound AND getting pressure up the middle.

That wasn't happening last Sunday for the Bills.

 

Also needed was for our rushers to get their hands up and try to deflect passes in the absence of being able to get to a fast slinging Burrow--don't recall seeing that either, even though Groot has had success with that at other times. 

[Jauronimo]

27 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

You're right to point out the injuries and early season line play. However, what about Boogie, Epenesa, Rousseau who were also invisible Sunday (Boogie's cringe-worthy "sack" dance notwithstanding after jumping early)? Also, Von as a force of nature really elevated everyone around him, and the Bills had few if any answers in his absence. 

What about them?  I'm not convinced Epenesa and Boogie are legit NFL talents.  Many people had similar concerns when they were drafted.  Rousseau had a decent season when healthy.  Is it Washington's fault they aren't pro bowlers by now and Ed O isn't Aaron Donald yet, did Beane draft some irredeemable bums, or is the truth somewhere in between?

 

I don't have the answer here and I, like many of you, ingest an unhealthy amount of Bills media.  I won't give it a second thought if Washington gets canned.  I am just trying to understand how so many people here are convinced that one or more positional coaches is the real problem.   What information do they have that I don't?  Haven't seen anything new.  Just demands of a blood sacrifice to ease the pain of falling short of the prize again.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Jauronimo

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

This was his first year as Safeties coach, so that's clearly not all on him, and all the backups are 6th, 7th round and undrafted. 

 

Ah good catch on it being his first year.

 

But as I mentioned up-thread, Poyer and Hyde were both very late picks too. The Bills have made late round (and even UDFA) DBs into serviceable players.

[Tommy Callahan]

When is the last time a Major coach like DC was changed and the team did better in the next year?  takes a while to install a new system and get the correct pieces.

 

Good teams tweak. 

 

Seems many of us are still in that old thinking where we need to burn it down and rebuild.

 

 

[GerstAusGosheim]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ah good catch on it being his first year.

 

But as I mentioned up-thread, Poyer and Hyde were both very late picks too. The Bills have made late round (and even UDFA) DBs into serviceable players.

I know you know this already, but Poyer and Hyde were exceptional free agents that we targeted and paid good money to. They were not developed out of college by our guys. They are the exception to the rule. Like Benford IF he continues to develop. Next year our starting CBs will both be first rounders. 

[Stevie Ray]

8 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

When is the last time a Major coach like DC was changed and the team did better in the next year?  takes a while to install a new system and get the correct pieces.

 

Good teams tweak. 

 

Seems many of us are still in that old thinking where we need to burn it down and rebuild.

 

 

I think the Cowboys when McCarthy fired Mike Nolan after the '20 season and Dan Quinn took over, the turnaround in their defensive performance was significant. Maybe not the norm, but it can happen. Also drafting Micah Parsons helps too  .

[TheWeatherMan]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

Trying to confirm. It was on Yahoo. Just said Bills fire Frazier.

He can’t be fired, he’s not under contract.  

[somnus00]

22 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

What about them?  I'm not convinced Epenesa and Boogie are legit NFL talents.  Many people had similar concerns when they were drafted.  Rousseau had a decent season when healthy.  Is it Washington's fault they aren't pro bowlers by now and Ed O isn't Aaron Donald yet, did Beane draft some irredeemable bums, or is the truth somewhere in between?

 

I don't have the answer here and I, like many of you, ingest an unhealthy amount of Bills media.  I won't give it a second thought if Washington gets canned.  I am just trying to understand how so many people here are convinced that one or more positional coaches is the real problem.   What information do they have that I don't?  Haven't seen anything new.  Just demands of a blood sacrifice to ease the pain of falling short of the prize again.

I feel the same way. It's unfortunate that we don't know what the real problem is for sure. I didn't like the Boogie pick, and I HATED the Epenesa pick. But are they bad players or just not used/developed properly.

 

It's interesting to note, however, that Jerry Hughes had 9 sacks this year. He was never that productuve with this coaching staff. It's been 8 years since he had that many sacks.

[C.Biscuit97]

Thank God. The safeties coach got Poyer and Hyde hurt and almost killed Damar!!!! This will solve everything. That guy was holding this team back. The witch is dead. 

[DrDawkinstein]

14 minutes ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

I know you know this already, but Poyer and Hyde were exceptional free agents that we targeted and paid good money to. They were not developed out of college by our guys. They are the exception to the rule. Like Benford IF he continues to develop. Next year our starting CBs will both be first rounders. 

 

Tough to say they were "exceptional" when neither could crack the starting line up of their previous teams.

 

Beck Water listed the draft positions of all the Safeties left in the playoffs. Plenty of late round guys there.

 

Sure, it's probably easier to "develop" guys who were already talented enough to be a 1st round pick. But we cant require early picks at every position.

[RyanC883]

35 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

What about them?  I'm not convinced Epenesa and Boogie are legit NFL talents.  Many people had similar concerns when they were drafted.  Rousseau had a decent season when healthy.  Is it Washington's fault they aren't pro bowlers by now and Ed O isn't Aaron Donald yet, did Beane draft some irredeemable bums, or is the truth somewhere in between?

 

I don't have the answer here and I, like many of you, ingest an unhealthy amount of Bills media.  I won't give it a second thought if Washington gets canned.  I am just trying to understand how so many people here are convinced that one or more positional coaches is the real problem.   What information do they have that I don't?  Haven't seen anything new.  Just demands of a blood sacrifice to ease the pain of falling short of the prize again.

 

Frazier needs to go, not random positional coaches.  The D in the last playoff losses has been abysmal.  

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

Kromer next? Think he did a pretty bad job this year 

 

talent sucked on OL, so did playcalling.  McD likes to protect bis coordinators at the expense of position coaches. 

[eball]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Thank God. The safeties coach got Poyer and Hyde hurt and almost killed Damar!!!! This will solve everything. That guy was holding this team back. The witch is dead. 

 

Did you watch Sunday's game?  Did you see the deep blown coverages all year?

 

On Sunday:  First TD -- Marlowe covers the wrong zone.  Second TD -- it looks like White covers the wrong zone.  That was my assessment.  Maybe on the second TD the safety was supposed to cover that zone; I am not sure.  However, the wide open receivers should have been covered on the 1st quarter TDs.  Blown coverages.

 

To me, it looked like there were blown coverages all year with wide open receivers.  It's because both Poyer and Hyde weren't out there (they don't need coaching) and the replacements were not well coached (in my opinion).

 

[RyanC883]

57 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I ask you for one example of him being a yes man and any rationale as to why he should be fired and posing that question means that I must believe he did a great job?  Making up *****, getting defensive about it, and making up more ***** is a poor way to have a conversation.

 

I did watch the Bengals game.  Phillips is headed for surgery today.  DaQuan Jones didn't play.  Oliver's pec injury had him playing with half his torso in a brace.  Miller was on IR. Line play looked pretty amazing when everyone was healthy early in the year.  I guess success is a function of talent and lack of success lands only on coaching? 

 

what’s a poor way to have a conversation is attacking posters you disagree with.  But keep at it. 

 

The DL was awful—all year.  And the injury excuses are weak.  The Bengals OL was more injured and we generated NOTHING against it.   Teams ran on us at will all year, and we likely lose to MIA if their starting RB was available (really twice, MIA and GB inexplicably stopped running in those regular season games).    

 

But keep enjoying the status quo and early playoff exits.  What are the excuses for the last few years?  Would love to hear them. 

37 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

When is the last time a Major coach like DC was changed and the team did better in the next year?  takes a while to install a new system and get the correct pieces.

 

Good teams tweak. 

 

Seems many of us are still in that old thinking where we need to burn it down and rebuild.

 

 

 

Eagles:  Fire SB winning HC.  Return to NFC Championship game soon thereafter.  

[Governor]

40 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

When is the last time a Major coach like DC was changed and the team did better in the next year?  takes a while to install a new system and get the correct pieces.

 

Good teams tweak. 

 

Seems many of us are still in that old thinking where we need to burn it down and rebuild.

 

 

Denver likely has. Wade for instance. KC too.