In a 3 year period, how did we end up with so many holes on this team.

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

That is cherry picking.  Of course in many drafts someone finds a star later, but that doesn’t make it a high probability to occur.

 

If any teams knew that the examples you cite were going to be as good as they are, they would have been picked sooner.

 

 

No - it's evidence that picking late in a draft doesn't mean you have to draft poorly when other teams do it just fine.

[DrDawkinstein]

23 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I am beginning to think a mix of both... You know.. early year I did a post saying that we are not the most complete team that the eagles and jets are more of a complete team then us. Jets just without a QB. I GOT HAMMERED in that thread. And look where we are now?

 

Jets draft positions:

 

2022 - #4, #10, #26, #36

2021 - #2, #14, #34

2019 - #3, etc...

 

If you want to suffer through 4 years of ineptitude and incompetence in order to get Beane those sweet top draft picks, then go for it. Totally different world picking in the Top 5 every year vs being a winning team and picking in the 20s every year.

 

But something tells me if this is how folks are reacting after 3 years of double-digit wins and deep playoff runs, then theyd be burning down One Bills Drive before Beane got his second draft of Top 5 picks.

[Airseven]

Amazing going into the season the consensus here was that Bills had best and deepest roster in NFL.

[BillsFanSD]

A billion people have said this already, but add me to the "we haven't drafted particularly well" camp.

[Fallser]

4 minutes ago, Nester said:

I am worried about the secondary. It was once a spot of great strength, injury has made a source of extreme weakness, the injury’s will be hard to recover from as these guys age… might need another big investment. #27 is just not the same and likely Poyer is not extended. Will Hyde be back at 75% of previous capacity? 
 

problems everywhere that can’t be drafted away with our current capital. 

Secondary is a massive problem, it needs to be addresses in Draft and FA.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Airseven said:

Amazing going into the season the consensus here was that Bills had best and deepest roster in NFL.

 

Not just here. Across the entire country with fans and media.

 

But devastating injuries to major vet starters will expose things. Even if unfairly.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Fallser said:

Secondary is a massive problem, it needs to be addresses in Draft and FA.

It’s not bad. White will improve. It was predicted he would struggle returning from ACL. They will have to fill a safety spot. Hyde will be good to go.

 

Im sounding like a broken record but the pass rush needs something else outside of Von. We can’t depend on Von to be healthy every game. Our pass rush went from top 5 with Von to bottom 5 without.

[BillsFanSD]

Just now, Airseven said:

Amazing going into the season the consensus here was that Bills had best and deepest roster in NFL.

I think that was still a pretty reasonable believe in training camp.  Consider:

• Davis was productive during his rookie year with a few catches in the playoffs.  He blew up in the 2021 playoffs.  It was reasonable to expect him to continue to build on that production in Year 3.  He didn't.
• We thought we had two halfway decent options in the slot, three if you count Shakir.  Turns out we were wrong.  Three times.
• We thought we had added an extra dimension to our offense by adding Cook.  Then he fumbled and got sent to the doghouse for the rest of the season.
• We thought that a DL featuring almost nothing but first- and second-round picks would come into form.  Whoops.
• We added to our LB depth by investing a third round pick in that guy who was inactive every game.  
• We drafted a corner in the first round to play opposite Tre, but our coaches wouldn't play that guy.  Also, Tre took much longer to come back that anybody was predicting. 
• How many safeties did we burn through this year?

That's a lot of whiffs mixed in with some places where we actually were pretty deep but our depth was severely tested (the secondary).  

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Its what happens when draft picks dont pan out. 

I personally don't even care anymore about the defense.  We're told every year we have a top 5 defense yet playoff time we turn into a bottom 10 defense. Put all our damn assets and draft picks around Josh. Stop wasting picks searching for the next Bruce.  We'll have to get by with Von and the kids.

[PrimeTime101]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Jets draft positions:

 

2022 - #4, #10, #26, #36

2021 - #2, #14, #34

2019 - #3, etc...

 

If you want to suffer through 4 years of ineptitude and incompetence in order to get Beane those sweet top draft picks, then go for it. Totally different world picking in the Top 5 every year vs being a winning team and picking in the 20s every year.

 

But something tells me if this is how folks are reacting after 3 years of double-digit wins and deep playoff runs, then theyd be burning down One Bills Drive before Beane got his second draft of Top 5 picks.

Has Beane had a bad batting average at picks or not. Does not matter where we picked. Your expected to have a decent batting average at draft picks no matter where you draft. you can beat  95% of the bad teams and have double digit wins but if you cant beat the top 3 when it counts? I mean come on?

[BullBuchanan]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Come on man. They aren’t going to be perfect every game. The Bills are one of the best organizations and coaching staffs in the NFL. They have work to do. They aren’t the best.

This statement is objectively false. Their drafting is poor by any standard. For all of the flack that people gave Doug Whaley, he's drafted the only All-Pro on the Bills roster. If we didn't have Josh Allen, Beane's tenure is a failure.
 

As for coaching, I'd put our gameday coaching and game-planning in the bottom 3rd of the NFL. McDermott is a nice guy and gives leadery quotes though. Is that what you mean when you say we have one of the best coaching staffs?

[mannc]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

Reaching on draft picks to fill needs instead of going BPA…

You can call it reaching; I just call it poor drafting. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by mannc

[0017]

11 minutes ago, Fallser said:

Secondary is a massive problem, it needs to be addresses in Draft and FA.

And defensive line! 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

This statement is objectively false. Their drafting is poor by any standard. For all of the flack that people gave Doug Whaley, he's drafted the only All-Pro on the Bills roster. If we didn't have Josh Allen, Beane's tenure is a failure.
 

As for coaching, I'd put our gameday coaching and game-planning in the bottom 3rd of the NFL. McDermott is a nice guy and gives leadery quotes though. Is that what you mean when you say we have one of the best coaching staffs?

There is zero chance you’ve evaluated every front office and coaching staff. Typically good front offices and coaching staffs win games. So I’ll go by that.

 

Drafting has been ok but I can’t say it’s been better then OK because I see a lot of average players. They’ve invested a lot of draft capital in the DL and there are a lot of average to below average players.

[ngbills]

Very Incomplete Review of the O. We have Allen which is most important in terms of upgrades. Diggs is big over Woods and Watkins. Other than that there is not a vast improvement. 

QB

2017: Inherited Taylor, drafted Peterman, signed Joe Webb

2018: Signed AJ McCarron, Traded Taylor, Traded McCarron, Drafted Allen, Signed Derek Anderson, Signed Matt Barkley

2019-2023: Various back up QB transactions (Keenum, Barkley, Trubisky)

Allen worked thankfully. 

 

RB:

2017: Inherited McCoy, signed Mike Tolbert and Patrick Dimarco

2018: Signed Chris Ivory to replace Tolbert

2019: Draft Singletary to replace McCoy, sign Yeldon and Gore

2020: Draft Moss because not sold on Singletary

2021: Breida experiment

2022: Draft Cook, Sign Duke Johnson to replace Breida, Trade Moss for Hines

McCoy was clearly on the downward decline but we are still looking for a RB.

 

WR & TE:

2017: Inherited Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, Clay, L Thomas. Traded Watkins, let Goodwin and Woods walk. Drafted Z Jones, Signed D Thompson, traded for Matthews and Benjamin.

2018: Draft R Foster, McCloud. Disaster of a group.

2019: Sign Brown and Beasley. Draft Knox.

2020: Trade for Diggs. Draft Davis. 

2021: Let Brown walk and Sign Sanders

2022: Let Sanders walk and Sign Crowder. Bring back Brown and Beasley.

Left out some stuff, too much to look at. But other than Diggs another disaster of a group. Knox is not even at Clay levels yet. Our #2 and #3 are not as good as a Woods/Goodwin level. Lots of swings and misses. 

 

OL:

2017: Inherited Glenn, Incognito, Wood, Miller, Mills. Draft Dawkins and McDermott, Sign Ducasse.

2018: Trade Glenn, Let Incognito go. Wood retires. Sign Bodine, Ike B, and Newhouse. Draft Teller. 

2019: Let Miller and Mills walk. Sign Morse, Spain, Feliciano, Nsekhe, Long. Draft Ford, Bates.

2020: Sign Williams and Winters. Release Spain. 

2021: Draft Brown and Doyle. Sign Hart and Douglas.

2022: Trade Ford. Sign Quessenberry, Saffold, Van Roten, Mancz. 

What a mess. Hard to keep track of all the comings and goings. Sadly some of the guys that left are much better than the current line. Teller is the best of the bunch. Still starting from ground zero. 

[Sharky7337]

Cause the carolina connection dried up!

[Goin Breakdown]

I remember when someone said after week 3 I believe that there were 3 leagues NFC, AFC and the Bills were in a league of their own. The bye week happened and "that" Bills team went away. My point is it didn't look like we had a lot of holes. Sure does now. Is coaching the issue here?

[FireChans]

33 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

1. I think Singletary comes back cheap. The RB Free Agency market is loaded, and prices are coming down by the minute. And if not, I like Cook (and Hines). Cook was a draft pick, and Hines was acquired with another drafted RB. No loss there either way.

 

2. Definite need. Has been for 2-3 seasons. Inexcusable to not address.

 

3. I'm not giving up on Brown, yet.

 

4. Agreed, Shakir needs a chance at a promotion, AND we need to draft WR early.

 

5. DT. If we're bringing everyone back and Jones is healthy, I dont see too bad a hole there.

 

6. I think we do pay Edmunds. We'll see.

 

7. Safeties will be Hyde & Hamlin. We had drafted Hamlin and Johnson to replace Hyde and Poyer. As we found this year, Johnson aint it, but Hamlin wasnt too bad in his first year getting real reps.

 

I know we're all disappointed right now and feeling bad, and Beane certainly has his work cut out for him, but I don't see so many glaring holes that they can't be addressed.

 

Go all Offense in the draft (OL, OL, WR, OL,...), sign a couple guys, and let's roll.

1. Not sure Beane can justify paying Singletary a dollar at this point.

 

2. We signed Saffold, extended Bates, re-signed Boettger. Now, Saffold was the worst FA OL signing the Bills ever had, Bates played worse than his "average" play at LG last year, and Boettger never got on the field, but it WAS addressed. It will just need to be addressed AGAIN.

 

4. This is really the biggest "need" the Bills have. Josh's WR group has gotten depleted since his best season (2020) and we ended up having to go back to the well of the washed guys from that year in order to try to salvage it.  It's no surprise to anyone (except maybe Beane) that correlation of Josh having Diggs/Brown/Davis/Beasley/McK to Diggs/washed Emmanuel Sanders/Davis/McK to Diggs/Davis/Kumerow/Crowder//McK/washed Brown/washed Beasely has resulted in a worse looking offense. Now we are pigeon-holed into a stark need at WR, with eyes on either a highly drafted rookie WR contributing right away or some cheaper FA coming in and producing.  Hurts especially worse that Isaiah Hodgins was a key contributor somewhere else.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I hope fans aren’t going to argue about how bad the Bills are this offseason. They need to get better to beat the Chiefs and Bengals but let’s not take that playoff loss and act like we’re the Texans.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Let’s not act like anyone else beats Buffalo.

People don’t like to hear it, but Miami does (did) too. And will again IF they have a healthy Tua or another good (not even great) QB next year.