MLB Hall of Fame Inductees to Be Announced Tonight (1/24/23) at 6PM

[Gugny]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/35510142/mlb-baseball-hall-fame-day-2023-explained

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/2023-hall-of-fame-ballot-released

 

https://baseballhall.org/discover/2023-hall-of-fame-ballot#welcome-to-the-party

 

WELCOME TO THE PARTY

Debuting on the BBWAA ballot in 2023 are Bronson Arroyo, Carlos Beltrán, Matt Cain, R.A. Dickey, Jacoby Ellsbury, Andre Ethier, J.J. Hardy, John Lackey, Mike Napoli, Jhonny Peralta, Francisco Rodríguez, Huston Street, Jered Weaver and Jayson Werth.

 

Candidates remain on the BBWAA ballot for 10 years provided they are not elected and they are named on at least five percent of all ballots cast each year.

 

RETURNING TO THE BALLOT

Among the players returning to the BBWAA ballot, Scott Rolen received votes on 63.2 percent of all ballots cast in 2022 — the most of any returnee. Rolen is on the ballot for the sixth time in 2023. Todd Helton (52 percent) and Billy Wagner (51 percent) are the only other candidates who received at least 50 percent of the BBWAA vote in 2022.

 

Any candidate who receives votes on 75 percent of all ballots cast will earn election to the Hall of Fame.

 

Fourteen former players are returning to the 2023 BBWAA ballot after receiving at least five percent of the overall vote in 2022:

 

Scott Rolen
63.2%
6th year

 

Todd Helton
52.0%
5th year

 

Billy Wagner
51.0%
8th year

 

Andruw Jones
41.4%
6th year

 

Gary Sheffield
40.6%
9th year

 

Álex Rodríguez
34.3%
2nd year

 

Jeff Kent
32.7%
10th year

 

Manny Ramírez
28.9%
6th year

 

Omar Vizquel
23.9%
6th year

 

Andy Pettitte
10.7%
5th year

 

Jimmy Rollins
9.4%
2nd year

 

Bobby Abreu
8.6%
4th year

 

Mark Buehrle
5.8%
3rd year

 

Torii Hunter
5.3%
3rd year

 

I think we could very possibly see none of these guys join the Crime Dog.  Rolen, Helton and/or Wagner might have a shot, but I can't see any other returning players making the cut and I also don't see any first ballot HOFers on the list of newbies.

[Ned Flanders]

All of them nice players...but HOF worthy?  I don't think so.

[SinceThe70s]

Rolen makes it in? Yeesh. Feels like a guy who made it in because guys like Manny and ARod won't.

 

I'd put the careers of Helton and Beltran ahead of Rolen.  And both of those are borderline.

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

Rolen makes it in? Yeesh. Feels like a guy who made it in because guys like Manny and ARod won't.

 

I'd put the careers of Helton and Beltran ahead of Rolen.  And both of those are borderline.

 

Looks like Helton is poised to make it in next year.  And yes ... he and Beltran are borderline, at best.

 

Sadly, the MLB HOF has become watered down.  I agree 100% re: Rolen and with your reasoning.  I'd personally rather see them go a decade with no new inductees than force votes.

 

(In my best Columbo voice) - Oh ... there's just one more thing .... Beltran?  Yeah ... he can suck it.

[Mike in Horseheads]

I hope Andruw Jones makes it one of these years. good player

[Gugny]

9 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I hope Andruw Jones makes it one of these years. good player

 

I've always been a big Andruw Jones fan, but I think he's borderline for the HOF.  He'll have to get in on his stellar defense, because his batting numbers just aren't there.  Class act.  Great player.  Played the game the right way.  He's getting closer each year and at the rate his votes are increasing, if he gets in, it'll likely be in his 10th year of eligibility.

 

 

[Another Fan]

18 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

Rolen makes it in? Yeesh. Feels like a guy who made it in because guys like Manny and ARod won't.

 

I'd put the careers of Helton and Beltran ahead of Rolen.  And both of those are borderline.

I pay ZERO attention to these stats and don’t even know what WAR is in baseball but he is the 9th best 3rd baseman all time apparently 

 

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/scott-rolens-hall-of-fame-case-a-matter-of-war/

 

just saying.  I think stuff like that plays a role 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Another Fan

[Bray Wyatt]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I've always been a big Andruw Jones fan, but I think he's borderline for the HOF.  He'll have to get in on his stellar defense, because his batting numbers just aren't there.  Class act.  Great player.  Played the game the right way.  He's getting closer each year and at the rate his votes are increasing, if he gets in, it'll likely be in his 10th year of eligibility.

 

 

 

10 Gold Gloves and over 400 homers, I mean he deserves it more than Rolen

[SinceThe70s]

54 minutes ago, Another Fan said:

I pay ZERO attention to these stats and don’t even know what WAR is in baseball but he is the 9th best 3rd baseman all time apparently 

 

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/scott-rolens-hall-of-fame-case-a-matter-of-war/

 

just saying.  I think stuff like that plays a role 

 

 

 

Just now, Bray Wyatt said:

 

10 Gold Gloves and over 400 homers, I mean he deserves it more than Rolen

 

When it comes to the HOF I don't get hung up on stats, I just go by the eye test. Rolen doesn't pass it for me. Jones probably does. Possibly the best defensive CF of his time - I can't remember seeing anyone that played as shallow as he did. As I recall he got better at the plate over the years, but his hitting alone would never get him into the HOF

[The Jokeman]

21 hours ago, Ned Flanders said:

All of them nice players...but HOF worthy?  I don't think so.

If ARod didn't have the steroid stink he'd definitely be worthy. 

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

 

When it comes to the HOF I don't get hung up on stats, I just go by the eye test. Rolen doesn't pass it for me. Jones probably does. Possibly the best defensive CF of his time - I can't remember seeing anyone that played as shallow as he did. As I recall he got better at the plate over the years, but his hitting alone would never get him into the HOF

Rosen was very strong both offensively and defensively.  Maybe he wasn’t flashy but his career WAR says HOF.  Nolan Arenado is a current player that will have his HOF detractors in a similar way.

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Rosen was very strong both offensively and defensively.  Maybe he wasn’t flashy but his career WAR says HOF.  Nolan Arenado is a current player that will have his HOF detractors in a similar way.

 

I think Arenado is on a much higher level than Rolen ever was.

 

He's been in the league for 10 years and has 10 gold gloves, 299 HRs, 968 RBI and 1520 hits, with a lifetime batting average of .289.  Surpasses Rolen in every category at the 10 year mark of his career.

 

If Arenado can keep those kinds of stats up for another five years, I think he's a 1st or 2nd ballot HOFer.

[SinceThe70s]

4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Rosen was very strong both offensively and defensively.  Maybe he wasn’t flashy but his career WAR says HOF.  Nolan Arenado is a current player that will have his HOF detractors in a similar way.

 

No doubt Rolen was a great player. 

 

I tend to be a bit harsh when it comes to the HOF and as I mentioned I don't look closely at the stats. If I need stats to justify a player then they probably aren't worthy of the Hall in my book. I also don't like the argument that since so-and-so got in then this guy should too. From what I understand (he was before my time) Maseroski is the poster child for that argument - a guy that probably isn't Hall worthy. Let's not lower the standards based on past mistakes.

 

As for Arenado, he needs more time but to me he's on the path to the HOF.

 

What's your thoughts on Yadier Molina? I think he's a no brainer but a few years ago someone on this board laughed at me when I mentioned that. Curious what others think.

 

 

[4merper4mer]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I think Arenado is on a much higher level than Rolen ever was.

 

He's been in the league for 10 years and has 10 gold gloves, 299 HRs, 968 RBI and 1520 hits, with a lifetime batting average of .289.  Surpasses Rolen in every category at the 10 year mark of his career.

 

If Arenado can keep those kinds of stats up for another five years, I think he's a 1st or 2nd ballot HOFer.

I was comparing their level of fame,  I do agree that Arenado  has a good chance of surpassing Rolen but he hasn’t yet.  He has a career WAR in the 50s.  Rolen is 70.1 and ranks ahead of:

 

Raines

Gwynn

Smoltz

Eddie Murray

Pudge Rodriguez

Jim Palmer

Kenny Lofton

Edgar Martinez

Ernie Banks

Pee Wee Reese

Sandberg

Roberto Alomar

Miggy Cabrera

 

The above list leaves me doubting WAR a little as there are some true great on that list IMO and definitely guys I consider ahead of Rolen, but still, it is an indicator that he fits.

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

No doubt Rolen was a great player. 

 

I tend to be a bit harsh when it comes to the HOF and as I mentioned I don't look closely at the stats. If I need stats to justify a player then they probably aren't worthy of the Hall in my book. I also don't like the argument that since so-and-so got in then this guy should too. From what I understand (he was before my time) Maseroski is the poster child for that argument - a guy that probably isn't Hall worthy. Let's not lower the standards based on past mistakes.

 

As for Arenado, he needs more time but to me he's on the path to the HOF.

 

What's your thoughts on Yadier Molina? I think he's a no brainer but a few years ago someone on this board laughed at me when I mentioned that. Curious what others think.

 

 

Rolen did his job exceedingly well.  No, it’s not all about stats but it can’t be about glitz and glamour either.  It’s one thing if stats are borderline.  When considering O and D, Rolen is not borderline….he’s in.  Should Oscar Gamble be in due to famous hair?  It has to at least be somewhat about stats.  
 

Molina to me was one of the top five or so defensive catchers I’ve seen.  I think that means a lot so I would vote for him.  I’m not sure how WAR is measured but his is low.  That to me is more of an indictment of WAR’s defensive measurements because I know what my eyes see at least to some extent.  I still consider Pudge the best defending catcher I’ve ever seen not just with skills but with managing staffs, but Melina’s management of pitchers is also elite.

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

No doubt Rolen was a great player. 

 

I tend to be a bit harsh when it comes to the HOF and as I mentioned I don't look closely at the stats. If I need stats to justify a player then they probably aren't worthy of the Hall in my book. I also don't like the argument that since so-and-so got in then this guy should too. From what I understand (he was before my time) Maseroski is the poster child for that argument - a guy that probably isn't Hall worthy. Let's not lower the standards based on past mistakes.

 

As for Arenado, he needs more time but to me he's on the path to the HOF.

 

What's your thoughts on Yadier Molina? I think he's a no brainer but a few years ago someone on this board laughed at me when I mentioned that. Curious what others think.

 

 

 

For all of my baseball-loving life, when it came down to HOF inductions, I've always asked myself - "When you hear his name, do you automatically think - "yeah, he's a hall of famer?"  I always believed that if you were to poll, say, 100 real baseball experts and 80% of them didn't respond with, "definitely," then a player shouldn't be in.

 

I've never thought of Rolen as a Hall of Famer.  Solid player, yes.  HOFer ... nah. 

 

When I think of Arenado, my immediate reaction is, "if he keeps it up, he should definitely be in."

 

Re: Yadier Molina ... I immediately thought "absolutely, yes."  His durability, longevity, defense, leadership and ... to a lesser extent, batting (over 1K RBI, .277 lifetime hitter, which is great for a catcher) make him a no-brainer for me.

 

[SinceThe70s]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Rolen did his job exceedingly well.  No, it’s not all about stats but it can’t be about glitz and glamour either.  It’s one thing if stats are borderline.  When considering O and D, Rolen is not borderline….he’s in.  Should Oscar Gamble be in due to famous hair?  It has to at least be somewhat about stats.  
 

Molina to me was one of the top five or so defensive catchers I’ve seen.  I think that means a lot so I would vote for him.  I’m not sure how WAR is measured but his is low.  That to me is more of an indictment of WAR’s defensive measurements because I know what my eyes see at least to some extent.  I still consider Pudge the best defending catcher I’ve ever seen not just with skills but with managing staffs, but Melina’s management of pitchers is also elite.

 

Have to admit Gamble's hair was fabulous! Always wondered how the baseball cap stayed on his head.

 

And yeah I get the importance of stats, I don't dismiss them. I think my point is that if I subjectively think a guy is Hall worthy the stats are usually there to back it up. Yadier may be an exception. There was another guy who to me was a no-brainer - I think it was Bruce Sutter - and someone shredded his Hall worthiness based on stats. 

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

For all of my baseball-loving life, when it came down to HOF inductions, I've always asked myself - "When you hear his name, do you automatically think - "yeah, he's a hall of famer?"  I always believed that if you were to poll, say, 100 real baseball experts and 80% of them didn't respond with, "definitely," then a player shouldn't be in.

 

I've never thought of Rolen as a Hall of Famer.  Solid player, yes.  HOFer ... nah. 

 

When I think of Arenado, my immediate reaction is, "if he keeps it up, he should definitely be in."

 

Re: Yadier Molina ... I immediately thought "absolutely, yes."  His durability, longevity, defense, leadership and ... to a lesser extent, batting (over 1K RBI, .277 lifetime hitter, which is great for a catcher) make him a no-brainer for me.

 

 

That sums it up for me pretty well for me.

 

I will say that when it became a hitters game and everyone started hitting tons of HR's it became harder for me to distinguish the very good from the great. Personally I would not have voted for Bagwell.

[4merper4mer]

Just now, SinceThe70s said:

 

Have to admit Gamble's hair was fabulous! Always wondered how the baseball cap stayed on his head.

 

And yeah I get the importance of stats, I don't dismiss them. I think my point is that if I subjectively think a guy is Hall worthy the stats are usually there to back it up. Yadier may be an exception. There was another guy who to me was a no-brainer - I think it was Bruce Sutter - and someone shredded his Hall worthiness based on stats. 

I’m not a big fan of closers in general but Sutter is 100% toward the top of the closer list.  To me, the biggest joke in recent history was breaking the tradition of no one getting 100% with Rivera.  
 

Does Rivera deserve HOF?  You’d have to be crazy to even blink.  Is the lack of ever having a unanimous entry silly?  Probably, yes.  But, given both of the above, was Rivera the right guy to break that glass ceiling?  Not even close.  Because he was a Yankee?  If he had the same career as an Oriole, Ranger, or Marlin he gets in first ballot but doesn’t sniff 100%.  Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Cobb, Ruth, Aaron, not 100% but Rivera?  Shirley.  More recently you could make a strong case that the following deserved a higher % than Rivera:

 

Ripken, Gwynn, definitely Rickey, Maddux, Griffey, Jeter.

[SinceThe70s]

26 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I’m not a big fan of closers in general but Sutter is 100% toward the top of the closer list.  To me, the biggest joke in recent history was breaking the tradition of no one getting 100% with Rivera.  
 

Does Rivera deserve HOF?  You’d have to be crazy to even blink.  Is the lack of ever having a unanimous entry silly?  Probably, yes.  But, given both of the above, was Rivera the right guy to break that glass ceiling?  Not even close.  Because he was a Yankee?  If he had the same career as an Oriole, Ranger, or Marlin he gets in first ballot but doesn’t sniff 100%.  Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Cobb, Ruth, Aaron, not 100% but Rivera?  Shirley.  More recently you could make a strong case that the following deserved a higher % than Rivera:

 

Ripken, Gwynn, definitely Rickey, Maddux, Griffey, Jeter.

 

No doubt on Rivera, there's always one jack@ss.  Rivera is the most dominant baseball player I've ever seen.

[4merper4mer]

18 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

No doubt on Rivera, there's always one jack@ss.  Rivera is the most dominant baseball player I've ever seen.

Great at his job but a niche job.  Compared to Rickey?  No way.