Beane End of Year Presser

[DrPJax]

On 1/24/2023 at 3:40 PM, Big Blitz said:

Essentially just said Dorsey will be back 

I don’t think it’s a great idea , but depends if better can convinced to come in. What worries me is we see failure after failure from the defensive scheme In the playoffs , yet they keep sticking with Frazier.  It’s says something that Frazier is not even getting hc interviews at this point.  Mcd just continues to be stuck in this rut defensively  , so I really find it hard to fathom he will change after just one year with Dorsey and I’m expecting to hear how his second year will show tremendous growth.  This o just scored 10 points at home against a d that had not played them before.  That is not a confidence builder.  
 

I know Josh loves dorsey , but you know what , it’s like being in business with your best friend or family , it tends to not work out well.  Dorsey seems like a peer , not a leader or authority figure like Daboll was for Josh and I think the undisciplined play we saw at times was the result.  Burrows hit his backs and check downs and they dominated a terrible defensive scheme.  Josh either isn’t given the protection, the options to backs etc , or he just won’t get the ball out quickly as he held the ball the longest of any of the playoff qbs.  I chose to believe this is on dorsey and a very diverse lacking playbook. 

 

Probably best to only change so much and if given a choice , I would move from Frazier and hope Dorsey does grow.  We know what Frazier is as does the rest of the nfl now. A DC with a consistent top “5” D , that can’t get a hc job , is a huge red flag.  Dorsey , a first year OC got an interview and even with the Rooney rule , Frazier is not being considered as a serious candidate should open an owners eyes. If Mcd can’t move from that , as much as I respect him , he is showing a blind spot or loyalty that he is placing above his own career.  

[3rdand12]

15 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

I don’t think it’s a great idea , but depends if better can convinced to come in. What worries me is we see failure after failure from the defensive scheme In the playoffs , yet they keep sticking with Frazier.  It’s says something that Frazier is not even getting hc interviews at this point.  Mcd just continues to be stuck in this rut defensively  , so I really find it hard to fathom he will change after just one year with Dorsey and I’m expecting to hear how his second year will show tremendous growth.  This o just scored 10 points at home against a d that had not played them before.  That is not a confidence builder.  
 

I know Josh loves dorsey , but you know what , it’s like being in business with your best friend or family , it tends to not work out well.  Dorsey seems like a peer , not a leader or authority figure like Daboll was for Josh and I think the undisciplined play we saw at times was the result.  Burrows hit his backs and check downs and they dominated a terrible defensive scheme.  Josh either isn’t given the protection, the options to backs etc , or he just won’t get the ball out quickly as he held the ball the longest of any of the playoff qbs.  I chose to believe this is on dorsey and a very diverse lacking playbook. 

 

Probably best to only change so much and if given a choice , I would move from Frazier and hope Dorsey does grow.  We know what Frazier is as does the rest of the nfl now. A DC with a consistent top “5” D , that can’t get a hc job , is a huge red flag.  Dorsey , a first year OC got an interview and even with the Rooney rule , Frazier is not being considered as a serious candidate should open an owners eyes. If Mcd can’t move from that , as much as I respect him , he is showing a blind spot or loyalty that he is placing above his own career.  

Good points
 I have said that Dorsey is Josh's buddy and like Davis Webb were nearly peers.
Josh needs direction and discipline as most kids do.
Not to take away his growth and maturing before our eyes. But his Coach needs to be levels above that.
This was McDermott's mistake in not having someone watching over the "Kid" Dorsey. And then also, letting it go on so look with a course correction to create a sustainable offense from week to week.
 So many folks have rightly pointed to what seems obvious . 

 Always more than meets the eye . But some things are just right in front of you

[Donuts and Doritos]

2 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 They were down 2 starters. Jones & Miller and both Oliver & Phillips were banged up on top of that. And yes I realize the Bengals were down starters on their OL. What I'm saying is give me the 4 players I mentioned previously, all healthy, plus a healthy Hyde, Poyer & White and Give Cincy their 3 OL back healthy and let's play ball. 

 

 While I'm not foolish enough to believe Cincy’s offense wouldn't have some good moments, that game wouldn't look anything like what we saw on Sunday. And I don't think there a person that could convince me otherwise.

 

 There were a ton of injures on that defense, far, far greater than 3 OL being out. Were they all All-Pro caliber players like ours? Yeah let's play Cincy with our 3rd string FS, only for him to get hurt, let's bring on the 4th stringer. Or our SS playing with 1 arm and 1 leg and let's lose him also, bring on the 2nd stringer. Or our star CB playing on 1 leg or the best pass rusher we've had in a while, let's lose him too. Then have to play Burrow and the best WR trio in the NFL. 

 

I admit I was blinded by the wins, they just kept winning week after week. But once they lost and I really thought of the talent either not playing or playing with clear limitations, I got only one question...how did anyone think we had a chance? 

 

 

 

 

 

None of the players you mentioned played offense, so it doesn't fix the only scoring 10 pts problem. 

 

Excuses can be made if people want for the D. But the O isn't good enough & needs to be fixed.  

 

Beane's presser is discouraging bc he seems to think there is no problem & sounds like he's content to run it back. If he does, don't hold your breath that they'll get a different outcome next year.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

7 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

 

None of the players you mentioned played offense, so it doesn't fix the only scoring 10 pts problem. 

 

Excuses can be made if people want for the D. But the O isn't good enough & needs to be fixed.  

 

Beane's presser is discouraging bc he seems to think there is no problem & sounds like he's content to run it back. If he does, don't hold your breath that they'll get a different outcome next year.

 

 I don't put any stock in Beane’s pressies as far as future moves go. He rarely tells the truth. And I don't disagree with the offense needs help both with players and steady playcalling. And how about we actually use Cook and Hines and find ways to get them involved in the passing game as well. They're fast and we lack speed on offense.

 

 Does Dorsey need an offseason to put together a game plan? I thought the Rams game was called beautifully. 1st drive, right down the field TD.  It looked really easy. They installed a quick passing attack to counter Aaron Donald. Once the corners started sitting on shorter routes they went deep. Not only going deep, but waiting till Donald wasn't in the game. It was smart and had purpose. The only time they really got stopped was because of turnovers. I remember thinking great game, gotta clean up those turnovers, but for the first game of the year, boy did they look good. Like playoffs last year goid, just with some sloppiness. After the game I think I said Daboll who? Outloud even. Boy was I bamboozled.😂

 

 

 

 

[jahnyc]

Wonder what role Mike Shula played this season on the coaching staff.  I don't think I heard a word about him during the season.

[ArtVandalay]

4 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Just because he's not listed in your little handy dandy fact book means he's not an All-Pro. You do find him listed as an All-Pro everywhere else that lists All-Pro players for 2021. The original source you tried to use( Pro Football Reference) must meet your standards or else you wouldn't have used it. Scroll down to the safties and you'll find him listed as an All-Pro.

 

 He's also mentioned in countess articles, from numerous sources, videos and during NFL games and every single one has him as an All-Pro. I provided 4 previously and that was just the first few I found. Just because your little book only mentions 1st teamers doesn't mean 2nd team All-Pros aren't All-Pros. I also found a few articles that state there are no alternates in the All-Pro selection, alternates are only found in Pro Bowl selections.

 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/allpro.htm

 

 

 

It's not my little handy book is the official nfl records lmao.

 

You're a lost cause. Facts and official documents ignore them all and live in ignorance good luck. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, ArtVandalay said:

It's not my little handy book is the official nfl records lmao.

 

You're a lost cause. Facts and official documents ignore them all and live in ignorance good luck. 

 

 Yup. Meanwhile teams, coaches, sportscasters, the players and media themselves all call them All-Pro players. You are the first person I've come across in 45 years of following football that doesn't. If they're All-Pro players to them, you know everyone involved in football and covers football, then they're All-Pro players. Micah Hyde is clearly referred to as an All-Pro Safety, that's been proven.

 

 

 

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

3 hours ago, jahnyc said:

The reality is that Beane's drafting, outside of Allen, has been, at best, uneven.  He has hit on some later round picks such as Milano, Knox, Johnson, Davis and Jackson, but has fared as well with his first, second and third round picks.  The problem with the early picks is that they are performing at a level that is generally below their draft position would have suggested.  Another way to put it is that our early round picks generally are not total busts because they are contributors, but they also are not blue chip or even red chip type players.

 

First round picks Oliver and Rousseau have shown flashes, but they are not consistent and seem to disappear at times.  Rousseau should improve, but Oliver is a disappointment given where he was drafted and who else was available at that point of the draft.  Late second rounders Basham and Epenesa are role players.  Second rounder Ford was a bust.  Third rounder Brown is playing like a third rounder and needs to improve.  Bernard, another third rounder, seems to have bust potential.  Too early to tell about Elam and Cook.

 

Contrast our recent drafting with those of the Chiefs, who have been drafting after us over the last number of years.  In 2021, the Chiefs drafted Bolton (LB), Humphrey (C) and Smith (G).  All are at least red chip players and Humphrey is a blue chip player.  Their 2022 draft class looks strong as well.

 

Bottom line is that the Bills need to draft better in the early rounds.

Beane did not draft Milano, Dawkins or White. That was McDermott and Whaley/ assistants

[Old Coot]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

The regime is great a building a program. Building a winning culture and going to the playoffs. I have confidence they can win regular season games. Make playoff appearances.

Agreed. They have gone from the Drought to making the playoffs each year.

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

 

The regime had yet to show they can even get to an AFC final game and obviously the Super Bowl. I have serious doubts they can achieve this. 

Agreed re your first sentence. Re your second sentence none of us really know what the future holds. That said, it remains to be seen whether the team can advance further.

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

 

 

 

[ArtVandalay]

18 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Yup. Meanwhile teams, coaches, sportscasters, the players and media themselves all call them All-Pro players. You are the first person I've come across in 45 years of following football that doesn't. If they're All-Pro players to them, you know everyone involved in football and covers football, then they're All-Pro players. Micah Hyde is clearly referred to as an All-Pro Safety, that's been proven.

 

 

 

 

 

2nd team is a runner up bud, it means NOTHING. Zip. Just like MVP "finalist". Even on pro football reference he has no all pro badge at the top. There is only 1 all pro at each position for each of the 3 media publications. 

 

Literally provided you the official NFL Records from the NFL itself.

 

FYI FROM YOUR OWN WIKI YOU (OR SOMEONE) PREVIOUSLY POSTED:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro

 

"The first team consists of the top one or two players at each position; the second team consists of the runners-up at each position."

 

Some people just can't be helped.  Good day. 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by ArtVandalay

[Old Coot]

3 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, I agree with much of this, but I just don't think the passive D employed by Frazier is the answer. I agree with those folks who assert 1) The scheme requires too many premium athletes and the health of those athletes to be effective and 2) the defense puts up gaudy numbers by pummeling average and weak teams in the regular season, but struggles against better competition in the playoffs. Changing schemes may require a step backwards regarding personnel, but staying with something proven ineffective when it counts most isn't exactly staying in place.

Good point about the scheme.  It would be useful to know whether other teams have reached / won the Superbowl with a passive scheme.  Note: this is a general question for the forum. If you know the answer please enlighten us.

[RocCityRoller]

The more I hear it the worse it sounds.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

23 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

2nd team is a runner up bud, it means NOTHING. Zip. Just like MVP "finalist". Even on pro football reference he has no all pro badge at the top. There is only 1 all pro at each position for each of the 3 media publications. 

 

Literally provided you the official NFL Records from the NFL itself.

 

FYI FROM YOUR OWN WIKI YOU (OR SOMEONE) PREVIOUSLY POSTED:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro

 

"The first team consists of the top one or two players at each position; the second team consists of the runners-up at each position."

 

Some people just can't be helped.  Good day. 

 

 

 Yes a runner up to the 1st team, I never said that wasn't the case. But there's a 2nd team also. They are still All-Pros, they're just not 1st team All-Pros. 

 

 While I did not provide that link, I did look at it. Earlier you referred to the 2nd team All-Pros as "alternates", it states that there are no alternates in the All-Pro selection process. Therefore they're All-Pros. 

 

 But hey, be the only person to think that way. You and your little book.😂😂

 

 

 

[SectionC3]

11 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

I was a McDermott fan until seeing a much worse version of 13 seconds... we were totally unprepared and poor coaching really hurt us badly. It's not an overreaction when #BillsMafia were all wondering why in the hell we didn't do JACK on defense to adjust and to bring more blitzes since it was obvious our front 4 were not getting ANYTHING done. and Dorsey's play calling looked foolish and amateurish.

We blitzed on the Chase TD.  Didn’t get home.  

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, jahnyc said:

The reality is that Beane's drafting, outside of Allen, has been, at best, uneven.  He has hit on some later round picks such as Milano, Knox, Johnson, Davis and Jackson, but has fared as well with his first, second and third round picks.  The problem with the early picks is that they are performing at a level that is generally below their draft position would have suggested.  Another way to put it is that our early round picks generally are not total busts because they are contributors, but they also are not blue chip or even red chip type players.

 

First round picks Oliver and Rousseau have shown flashes, but they are not consistent and seem to disappear at times.  Rousseau should improve, but Oliver is a disappointment given where he was drafted and who else was available at that point of the draft.  Late second rounders Basham and Epenesa are role players.  Second rounder Ford was a bust.  Third rounder Brown is playing like a third rounder and needs to improve.  Bernard, another third rounder, seems to have bust potential.  Too early to tell about Elam and Cook.

 

Contrast our recent drafting with those of the Chiefs, who have been drafting after us over the last number of years.  In 2021, the Chiefs drafted Bolton (LB), Humphrey (C) and Smith (G).  All are at least red chip players and Humphrey is a blue chip player.  Their 2022 draft class looks strong as well.

 

Bottom line is that the Bills need to draft better in the early rounds.

Beane didn’t even draft Milano, he wasn’t even here 

 

he wasn’t here for Tre or Dawkins or Milano picks which helped change the future in 17 draft

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

It begs the question: what if Josh hadn't panned out, as the odds overwhelmingly suggested?

 

Where would we be these last years if Josh is a total bust?  

 

We'd probably be .500 at best and still searching for a good QB.

 

 

We would be on to a new coach and GM after another year of missing the playoffs. 
 

Allen has saved them both.

[Success]

I really wonder about our talent.  Is it that we don't draft well - or don't develop & utilize our players well?

 

Zach Moss actually ran pretty well after he went to Indy.  There are also guys like Teller & Hodgins.

 

And I can't help but think of how Cincy's line performed, with 3 starters out, and 1 playing hurt.  They schemed better, and got the most out of those players.

 

Sometimes, it seems like we're getting the minimum out of the talent we have.

 

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

2nd team is a runner up bud, it means NOTHING. Zip. Just like MVP "finalist". Even on pro football reference he has no all pro badge at the top. There is only 1 all pro at each position for each of the 3 media publications. 

 

Literally provided you the official NFL Records from the NFL itself.

 

FYI FROM YOUR OWN WIKI YOU (OR SOMEONE) PREVIOUSLY POSTED:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro

 

"The first team consists of the top one or two players at each position; the second team consists of the runners-up at each position."

 

Some people just can't be helped.  Good day. 

 

Dude. You are in the embarrassing place of doubling down on stupid. Even by simple logic.

1/2 x 2 = 1. it's really that simple, and you can't seem to grasp it.

Second team All Pro is an honor equal to or greater than the 'Pro Bowl'. I will show you why.

 

Being named to the 'Pro Bowl' seems to be a thing for you.

Most folks realize that with open voting the 'Pro Bowl' has become a joke ruled by 14 year olds who play Madden.

The All-Pro teams are voted on by sports writers who cover all the teams.

Believe it or not, not every 14 yr old, and not every coach, or player is watching every NFL game.

The NFL writers are supposed to.

 

So that may not be strong enough logic for you.

14 year olds who think 'the Raiders rule' get the same vote as NFL journalists do for the 'Pro Bowl'

Maybe that is cool for you, but it is the action that leads to Josh Allen not being on the Pro Bowl team last year.

 

I digress. That is the weak part of the argument. Let's look at this logically.

 

The 1st team All-Pro is 11 guys on each side of the ball who are the best of their craft. That is it.

One team of 11-12 players on offense

One team of 11-12 players on defense, and a few ST players.

There may be an exception to add a slot WR or Nickel CB

@25 total players

This team is decided by people who watch and write about the whole league.

 

The Pro Bowl requires 2 teams to play each other.

There are two teams required to play in the Pro Bowl.

That almost seems like double the players are named to the Pro Bowl as the 1st team All Pro team!?!?

That means double of each position to get into the pro Bowl.

 

1st team All-Pro QB = 1 QB

1st team Pro-Bowl QB = 2 QB, both teams need a QB,

if a 1st team Pro Bowl QB is in the playoffs or is injured at the time a 3rd or 4th QB is named

as decided by 14 year olds (alternates)

1st team All Pro team doesn't care about the playoffs or injuries, there are no alternates

 

1st team All-Pro LT = 1 LT, you are the best.

1st team Pro Bowl LT = 2 LT

if the 1st team Pro Bowl LT is in the playoffs or is injured at the time a 3rd or 4th LT is named.

as decided by 14 year olds (alternate LT)

1st team All Pro team doesn't care about the playoffs or injuries, there are no alternates

 

1st team All Pro WR = 2 WR

1st team Pro Bowl = 4 WR

It's like it is double?!?

If you happen to be a WR in the playoffs.....

 

It's almost like the 1st team All Pro team is half the size of the Pro Bowl team, before alternates!

Who knew?!?! Such an epiphany!

It's almost like the second All-Pro team was like the second Pro-Bowl team starters, but was named something different?!?!

 

DUHHHH

 

All Pro > Pro Bowl by a mile

2nd team All pro >= Pro Bowl

 

DUHHH

Edited January 26, 2023 by RocCityRoller

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Dude. You are in the embarrassing place of doubling down on stupid. Even by simple logic.

1/2 x 2 = 1. it's really that simple, and you can't seem to grasp it.

Second team All Pro is an honor equal to or greater than the 'Pro Bowl'. I will show you why.

 

Being named to the 'Pro Bowl' seems to be a thing for you.

Most folks realize that with open voting the 'Pro Bowl' has become a joke ruled by 14 year olds who play Madden.

The All-Pro teams are voted on by sports writers who cover all the teams.

Believe it or not, not every 14 yr old, and not every coach, or player is watching every NFL game.

The NFL writers are supposed to.

 

So that may not be strong enough logic for you.

14 year olds who think 'the Raiders rule' get the same vote as NFL journalists do for the 'Pro Bowl'

Maybe that is cool for you, but it is the action that leads to Josh Allen not being on the Pro Bowl team last year.

 

I digress. That is the weak part of the argument. Let's look at this logically.

 

The 1st team All-Pro is 11 guys on each side of the ball who are the best of their craft. That is it.

One team of 11-12 players on offense

One team of 11-12 players on defense, and a few ST players.

There may be an exception to add a slot WR or Nickel CB

@25 total players

This team is decided by people who watch and write about the whole league.

 

The Pro Bowl requires 2 teams to play each other.

There are two teams required to play in the Pro Bowl.

That almost seems like double the players are named to the Pro Bowl as the 1st team All Pro team!?!?

That means double of each position to get into the pro Bowl.

 

1st team All-Pro QB = 1 QB

1st team Pro-Bowl QB = 2 QB, both teams need a QB,

if a 1st team Pro Bowl QB is in the playoffs or is injured at the time a 3rd or 4th QB is named

as decided by 14 year olds (alternates)

1st team All Pro team doesn't care about the playoffs or injuries, there are no alternates

 

1st team All-Pro LT = 1 LT, you are the best.

1st team Pro Bowl LT = 2 LT

if the 1st team Pro Bowl LT is in the playoffs or is injured at the time a 3rd or 4th LT is named.

as decided by 14 year olds (alternate LT)

1st team All Pro team doesn't care about the playoffs or injuries, there are no alternates

 

1st team WR = 2 WR

1st team Pro Bowl = 4 WR

It's like it is double?!?

If you happen to be a WR in the playoffs.....

 

It's almost like the 1st team All Pro team is half the size of the Pro Bowl team, before alternates!

Who knew?!?! Such an epiphany!

It's almost like the second All-Pro team was like the second Pro-Bowl team starters, but was named something different?!?!

 

DUHHHH

 

All Pro > Pro Bowl by a mile

2nd team All pro >= Pro Bowl

 

DUHHH

This debate of yours is going to kill us civilians with boredom.

[RocCityRoller]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This debate of yours is going to kill us civilians with boredom.

I can't help it.

 

This dude is arguing that 2nd team All Pro is not an honor.

 

Sorry Coach. I'll go run some wind sprints.....