McDermott detractors

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

I give Sean McDermott a lot of credit of turning this franchise around. My main complaint is that McDermott's teams lack a physical dimension that you need to win in the playoffs. The Bengals just came into our house and punched the Bills and the whole city of Buffalo in the mouth. The team needs some more guys that play with an edge and push the rules right up to the limit, and I'm afraid that McDermott's emphasis on culture will not allow this need to be addressed. As much as we all hate him, a Christian Wilkins type of player would go a long way, but he wouldn't fit the "process."

 

I agree with you, and don't.  I do think this Bills squad needs to be more physical, especially in the trenches.  But I don't think that the McD's emphasis on culture and process precludes that.

As a former soldier, I can tell you we talked a lot about culture and process (SOPs, etc.) and did not typically condone bending rules.  At the same time, we could be very physical.  When it was time to hit, we hit hard.  That was part of the culture.  In a violent profession, it needs to be.  

 

I don't think McD is on the wrong track at all.  I do think he needs better linemen on both sides of the ball who can push people around and aggressively assert themselves.   That's a task for Brandon Beane.  

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

I give Sean McDermott a lot of credit of turning this franchise around. My main complaint is that McDermott's teams lack a physical dimension that you need to win in the playoffs. The Bengals just came into our house and punched the Bills and the whole city of Buffalo in the mouth. The team needs some more guys that play with an edge and push the rules right up to the limit, and I'm afraid that McDermott's emphasis on culture will not allow this need to be addressed. As much as we all hate him, a Christian Wilkins type of player would go a long way, but he wouldn't fit the "process."

 

 They have never really had an identity either. When McBeane got here Brady was still in NE so they mentioned a few times back then about building a team to beat them.

 

 Brady then leaves and KC now became our biggest obstacle and for the last few years they've built a team to try and beat them. They were worried about the speed of KC so for the most part they tried to a get a faster team. I remember either McDermott or Beane talking about how they had to get faster to compete with them(offseason after our AFCCG loss to them?).

 

So they tried to get faster, but at the same time fast players are usually smaller. But KC then starts to fix its oline and eventually trades Hill and they became a totally different offense. Couple that with the emergence of Cincy who just bullied that crap out of us on the field Sunday.

 

 My point is why not just build a team based on what you want and make the other teams adjust to you. NE used to do this all the time on offense based on their personnel. Some years it was the high flying Moss and Welker show. Other years it was 2 TEs and Welker and no one really on the outside that scared a defense. Both worked in their own ways. We haven't seen anything like that from this coaching staff. Same defensive and offensive philosophy year after year. They need to change things up and adapt. Some teams do it on a week by week basis, depending on who they're playing.

 

 Imo start with getting 2 WRs & 2 OL in the first 4 rounds of the draft this year. If you can't stop them, at least have the players to help keep up with Mahomes and Burrow.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[BobChalmers]

Simple version of the question: If Sean Payton was available to the Bills would you dump McDermott to get him?  I would - even if they had to give up a 1st to close the deal with the Saints.

[Chaos]

I am in the how do we win a championship crowd. Full stop.  If the best answer is 100 percent maintain the status quo after analysis I am good with that. if the answer is gut everything and completely reboot around Josh Allen (Allen should be considered a sacred cow in any analysis) I am ok with that. 
 

However any analysis that includes comparisons to past losing Bills teams is invalid from the get go in my opinion. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Chaos

[Brand J]

4 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I'll ask this question again: How many teams have a 5 year coach/QB combo to begin with?  A team has to be winning a lot of games for both the coach & QB to stay that long without one of them being replaced. 

 

There were only 9 coaches who were coaching into their 5th season or longer with the same team in 2022.  Right off the bat there's a 72% chance that the Super Bowl winning coach will be one with less than 5 years on the job.  Of the remaining 4 teams, only Reid's QB has been with his team 5 years, so there's a 75% chance that this year's winner will fit the stat.  If you count Reid/Mahomes as already qualifying, it goes up to 100% this year, which still proves absolutely nothing.  

 

Going into this season only 8 starting QBs out of 32 (25% including Garoppolo) have been with their team 5 years or more.  There are only 4 coach/QB combos of 5 years or more-that's 12.5%. 

 

The percentages of 5 year coach/QB combos are so low to begin with, when you start a season with only 12.5% of the situation existing to begin with, it's pretty easy for a clown on TV to pull a stat like that out of his @ss and think it makes him look like he's uncovered something.  The natural odds are it's more likely to be a combo that's been together 5 years or less than 5 years or more since there is such a high turnover rate for coaches & QBs.     

Look, I’m not a McD detractor necessarily, but nothing in your post changes the fact that if a HC and QB combination hasn’t won a SB by year 5, they haven’t done so at any time after that in the history of the league. Doesn’t mean it won’t ever happen, but if history is an indicator either Allen or McD will be gone before they’ll have the opportunity to win one together. And when you have a franchise QB the one who goes is the HC. Andy Reid won a SB in year 7 with the Chiefs, but it took a new QB coming in (Mahomes) to accomplish this. That’s a lot of years that provide a data point, would be interesting to see the numbers of HC/QB combos that were together more than 5 years but never won a championship dating back to the first ever SB.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, BobChalmers said:

Simple version of the question: If Sean Payton was available to the Bills would you dump McDermott to get him?  I would - even if they had to give up a 1st to close the deal with the Saints.

I would not.  Payton’s involvement in bounty gate disqualifies him. I would be more interested in the next Sean Mcvay, whom I never heard of before he was hired.  I assume I have never heard of the next star HC.  The record for retreads is horrible. 

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I would not.  Payton’s involvement in bounty gate disqualifies him. I would be more interested in the next Sean Mcvay, whom I never heard of before he was hired.  I assume I have never heard of the next star HC.  The record for retreads is horrible. 

I think McD is still this teams best coaching option. I do think if the playoff failures mount the team will move on but not after this season. McBeane does have to adapt the roster building. The offense needs to be heavily invested in.

[Ray Stonada]

 

I agree with this. Hopefully 3 of them on the O line, 3 on the D line, and one at safety.

[SydneyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, SoMAn said:

We all had high expectations for the Bills this year, and now there’s all the predictable finger pointing, including the ‘fire McDermott’ camp. 
For perspective, look at the pre-McDermott teams that for years won 7 to 9 games annually and never sniffed the playoffs. 
In 6 seasons, the Bills have made the playoffs 5 times, including one season with journeyman QB Tyrod Taylor behind center. 
So, you want McD gone. For further perspective, examine future HOF coach Andy Reid’s history. As a head coach in Philly and KC, how many times did he miss the playoffs or lose in early rounds before getting to and winning a conference championship? 
The Bills somehow won 14 of 18 this season despite of a mountain of adversity. Shouldn’t McDermott get some credit for that? A few short years ago some of us would have given our eye teeth to enjoy a season with that many victories. 
So, you want to throw the baby out with the bath water? Who would you armchair GMs fill the coaching staff with? You’re ready to start over…again?

The culture created by Beane and McDermott has produced an attractive destination for free agents. A good draft, impact signings, and a healthier 2023 might be all that’s needed to get to the promised land. 
Silver lining: the Bills not winning the Super Bowl saved us from a lifetime of NFL Films highlights with the radio broadcast voiceover of Chris Brown screeching “Bills win” 3 octaves higher than a normal speaking voice. 😏

 

Your analysis is completely validated, but only on the proviso that:

 

- He demonstrates that he is serious about making changes, either at the DC or OC position, as well as perhaps the DL coach

- He (along with BB) heavily prioritises the offense at both the draft and free agency

 

I think he has earned the right to try and fix what is broken.

 

[BullBuchanan]

18 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I would not.  Payton’s involvement in bounty gate disqualifies him. I would be more interested in the next Sean Mcvay, whom I never heard of before he was hired.  I assume I have never heard of the next star HC.  The record for retreads is horrible. 

based on what?

12 of the last 20 super bowls were won by coaches you could deem re-treads if the qualification is: fired from a previous NFL HC job. 13 depending on how you count Arians.

[CaliBills]

57 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Without Allen, McDormant, Dorsey and Leslie are coaching HS football.  

lol that is weird. I thought they were already coaching in the NFL before Allen arrived.

 

Just another bad take.  good job pal

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

based on what?

12 of the last 20 super bowls were won by coaches you could deem re-treads if the qualification is: fired from a previous NFL HC job. 13 depending on how you count Arians.

What percentage of HCs are retreads based on your criteria. My guess is more than 60 percent which means 60 percent is a fail. And if you remove Belcihek from both sides of the equation you are at 6/14

[billsfan89]

5 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Your analysis is completely validated, but only on the proviso that:

 

- He demonstrates that he is serious about making changes, either at the DC or OC position, as well as perhaps the DL coach

- He (along with BB) heavily prioritises the offense at both the draft and free agency

 

I think he has earned the right to try and fix what is broken.

 

While Josh was on his rookie contract McBeane over invested in a defense that came up short 3 times during the playoffs. There has to be a shift in the roster building and some at least modest shake up in the coaching staff.

 

I am fine with Dorsey coming back, Year one and he needs more talent. Frazier on the other hand I would like to see gone. I think the defense needs some more aggressive coaching and better talent development.

[TheWeatherMan]

10 minutes ago, CaliBills said:

lol that is weird. I thought they were already coaching in the NFL before Allen arrived.

 

Just another bad take.  good job pal

Go back to surfing Cali boy

[Chaos]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

based on what?

12 of the last 20 super bowls were won by coaches you could deem re-treads if the qualification is: fired from a previous NFL HC job. 13 depending on how you count Arians.

Here is my definition of a retread. A coach who had five years or more to build a team and implement a system. Andy Reid is a retread by this definition and a hell of a coach.   Sean Payton is a retread. John Gruden was a retread.  Josh McDaniel is not.   Doug McDermott would be a retread on a different team.  If Brian Flores were to get another opportunity, he would not be a retread under my definition. He might not be a good coach, but i would not define him as a retread.  Bill Belichek was not a retread when he was hired by this defintion.   

[nedboy7]

8 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Go back to surfing Cali boy

 

Calm down.  Take your intellectual whipping like a man.  You don't wanna be a ***** like Saffold do you?

[corta765]

Let me be very clear with this Sean McDermott has done a superb job since taking over to take a franchise from the ashes into a highly competitive winning club. He developed a QB no one gave an ounce of a shot at being anything and did change the culture where players who would never come to Buffalo. 

 

At the same point time is not limitless, they have not even reached a Super Bowl, and it is fair to say the team has regressed in achievement the last three years with this coach and staff in which decisions he directly made had a negative impact on his teams chances. Josh is now entering the 6th year of his career and decidedly in the prime of his career. He realistically has 4-5 years before all the hits start to catch up and his mobility slows a bit. The guy as is carries the burden for the team to an uneven level that finally crested this season. The rest of the AFC exist and is challenging while the Bills have went 0-4 in the playoffs when they had their largest resource pool they will get with Josh and this team.

 

Fan expectations need to move past being happy the team is good and not garbage and understand the goal is larger but also very limited.

 

I don't disagree that just dumping McDermott would probably be an overaction unless you truly have someone set to take over you think can do better. But some true changes need to be made in some capacity whether its a new coordinator on D, new assistants, etc.. This team has ran the same group across the board back for years and the results have diminished. They have certainly been reactive in prior off-season's to try and fix their flaws so I don't doubt the work will be attempted. But two things have been true for a bit now which is unless Josh is superman in the post season like last year, the offense does not have enough support and the defense has been a mess every elimination game.

[nedboy7]

52 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree with you, and don't.  I do think this Bills squad needs to be more physical, especially in the trenches.  But I don't think that the McD's emphasis on culture and process precludes that.

As a former soldier, I can tell you we talked a lot about culture and process (SOPs, etc.) and did not typically condone bending rules.  At the same time, we could be very physical.  When it was time to hit, we hit hard.  That was part of the culture.  In a violent profession, it needs to be.  

 

I don't think McD is on the wrong track at all.  I do think he needs better linemen on both sides of the ball who can push people around and aggressively assert themselves.   That's a task for Brandon Beane.  

 

Appreciate the intelligent post from a military vet who doesn't think McD was soft for not yelling at the team to leave Damar's body behind to win one! 

[machine gun kelly]

McD isn’t going anywhere nor is Beane.  You guys are delusional to think otherwise.  They are smarter than you as they won’t be so reactionary.

 

Should things change and improve, sure.  Purging the two who have turned this loser franchise around for 17 years isn’t happening.  You’re wasting your breath.  You’re also proving you don’t know anything about football or a troll.

 

I believe he’ll make changes like he got rid of the ST Coach and Wallace last year.  That made sense.

[BullBuchanan]

37 minutes ago, Chaos said:

What percentage of HCs are retreads based on your criteria. My guess is more than 60 percent which means 60 percent is a fail. And if you remove Belcihek from both sides of the equation you are at 6/14

6/14 is still pretty good at ~43%.

the math on retread coaches isn't quite as simple as just looking who they are today because ideally you'd want to look at all of them over the same period.

However, this season there were 8 HC "re-treads" who were previously HCs for other teams:

Reid

Carroll
Pederson
McCarthy

Todd Bowles

 

Belichick
Ron Rivera

 

Lovie Smith
 

5 made the playoffs, two got close and one ended in last place. Bowles, Pederson and Smith were in their first year with new clubs and Belichick, Rivera and Smith each started several QBs due to injury of ineffectiveness.
 

Edited January 24, 2023 by BullBuchanan