Sean McDermott vs Sean Payton

[BuffBills51]

As we all know Payton is a hot coaching candidate right now. I have even seen we should replace McDermott with him. I agree with many posters that McDermott needs to improve on some things to lead us to the next level we all want to see the team at, mainly replacing Dorsey with a play caller that has more play calling creativity. However, when you look at McDermott compared to Payton they are very comparable. We are all frustrated with how the season ended but McDermott is the top coach we have had since Levy and is a top level coach in this league.

 

 

                         Seasons            Wins               Losses                Win Pct          Yrs Playoffs        Playoff Pct               Playoff Wins          Playoff Loss         Playoff Win Pct

McDermott       6                        62                   35                       .639                  5                           .8333                       4                                5                          .444

Payton             15                       152                  89                       .631                   9                           .60                           9                                8                          .529

[RiotAct]

I heard we’d have to send the Saints a 1st to get him?  If so… no way Jose.

[No_Matter_What]

Grass is always greener on the other side for some...

[SoCal Deek]

The Bills are in a rare position. All that matters now is playoff performance. It’s sort of like the better NBA Teams. Our current Coaching Staff has crapped the bed now year after year. 

[Success]

I don't think they'll move on from McD, and I think McD is a solid & even above-average coach.

 

But I think Payton would give us a better shot at a Super Bowl. And if that's all that matters...

 

[LeviF]

Payton turned Brees into a HOFer. 

 

Sean McDermott is turning Josh Allen into Dan Marino 2.0.

 

Be honest, do you think Brees and Josh Allen are the same, talent-wise?

[Bruffalo]

I'm not happy with McD right now either but I don't realistically think you could get anyone to replace him that would be an upgrade. He's a top 10 coach in the NFL, arguably a top 5.  

 

The best course of action is to replace the defensive coordinator with somebody young and aggressive, which would balance nicely with McD's conservative nature. 

 

I don't know what you do with OC. Frankly, I'm not excited to see Dorsey again but I can understand that it's probably a long shot that he gets fired.  I'd love to see Reich in at OC, proven successful OC in big time situations. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

4 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I heard we’d have to send the Saints a 1st to get him?  If so… no way Jose.

 

Reports are a mid 1st++ so that's an absolute no-go for me. 

 

I think Payton is grossly overrated anyway. The Saints underperformed given their talent level while he was HC 

[GunnerBill]

I think Payton is an excellent coach, a great offensive playcaller - second only to Andy Reid IMO. But you can argue McDermott's playoff losses have all come to teams who are in the same bracket as the Bills:

 

2017 - Jags (everyone believed Jags and Bills were pretenders even though the Jags ended up in the AFCCG)

2019 - Houston (both Houston and Buffalo were solid playoff teams but not on the level of the Chiefs)

2020 - Chiefs (Kansas City were better than us)

2021 - Chiefs (Kansas City and Buffalo were the consensus top 2 in the AFC)

2022 - Bengals (on the same top end AFC tier as the Bills)

 

Payton lost an NFCCG to Rex Grossman. He lost a wildcard game as reigning champs to a 7-9 division winner. He lost a playoff game to Case Keenum. He lost a home playoff game to Kirk Cousins. ALL with Drew Brees a sure fire HOFer at QB. Yes, he won one. But his overall playoff record is very mixed.

 

I think if he was a free agent I'd put feelers out. But give up a 1st round pick for him? No way. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

16 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I heard we’d have to send the Saints a 1st to get him?  If so… no way Jose.

More than a first

How long did Payton go 7-9 with Brees?

[Billz4ever]

The only thing that realistically happens this year is we have a change in coordinators, and even then it may only be DC if we're lucky.

 

Dorsey did a decent job in his first year but seemed to be lacking in situational football play calling all season.  When it's 3rd and 2, you shouldn't be calling 40-yard throws.  I would love to see Reich return home. I think he has a good track record as OC and would be able to reel Josh back in if he gets into hero ball mode.  I think Dorsey's playcalling tends to feed Josh's bad habits at times. 

 

I think it's a no-brainer we need something different on the defensive side.  Frazier is waaaay too predictable and the bend but not break has been breaking.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

41 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

The only thing that realistically happens this year is we have a change in coordinators, and even then it may only be DC if we're lucky.

 

Dorsey did a decent job in his first year but seemed to be lacking in situational football play calling all season.  When it's 3rd and 2, you shouldn't be calling 40-yard throws.  I would love to see Reich return home. I think he has a good track record as OC and would be able to reel Josh back in if he gets into hero ball mode.  I think Dorsey's playcalling tends to feed Josh's bad habits at times. 

 

I think it's a no-brainer we need something different on the defensive side.  Frazier is waaaay too predictable and the bend but not break has been breaking.  

While I agree there is almost zero chance McD is gone, why do you think changing Frazier will change the defense? It's McDermott's defense. 

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

While I agree there is almost zero chance McD is gone, why do you think changing Frazier will change the defense? It's McDermott's defense. 

Frazier is still calling the D.  It's far too predictable and far too conservative. 

[Mango]

58 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Reports are a mid 1st++ so that's an absolute no-go for me. 

 

I think Payton is grossly overrated anyway. The Saints underperformed given their talent level while he was HC 

I agree with this. 
 

My take has always been that Brees is an all time great QB or Payton is a HoF coach. Both cannot be true at the same time. 
 

Firing McD for Payton is putting all your chips on Brees being a system QB. That gives me pause.

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Frazier is still calling the D.  It's far too predictable and far too conservative. 

I believe this is McD’s defense so I am tempted to side with people who say “it won’t change until McDermott is gone”.

 

But we’ve seen McDermott pull play calling away from Frazier in the past and the defense has gotten drastically better. 
 

Brandon Beane shouldn’t go without major blame. Arguably as much or more as anybody on the coaching staff. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Sean Payton only won 1 w/ all the talent he had. Not so sure he doesn't just turn into the second coming of the post-Giants Bill Parcells.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Payton is an excellent coach, a great offensive playcaller - second only to Andy Reid IMO. But you can argue McDermott's playoff losses have all come to teams who are in the same bracket as the Bills:

 

2017 - Jags (everyone believed Jags and Bills were pretenders even though the Jags ended up in the AFCCG)

2019 - Houston (both Houston and Buffalo were solid playoff teams but not on the level of the Chiefs)

2020 - Chiefs (Kansas City were better than us)

2021 - Chiefs (Kansas City and Buffalo were the consensus top 2 in the AFC)

2022 - Bengals (on the same top end AFC tier as the Bills)

 

Payton lost an NFCCG to Rex Grossman. He lost a wildcard game as reigning champs to a 7-9 division winner. He lost a playoff game to Case Keenum. He lost a home playoff game to Kirk Cousins. ALL with Drew Brees a sure fire HOFer at QB. Yes, he won one. But his overall playoff record is very mixed.

 

I think if he was a free agent I'd put feelers out. But give up a 1st round pick for him? No way. 

Lets stipulate the Bills "were in the same bracket".  HOw do you explain choking or getting stomped in every single end of season game?

[US Egg]

McD beats Payton every time in arm wrestling.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 hours ago, LeviF said:

Payton turned Brees into a HOFer. 

 

Sean McDermott is turning Josh Allen into Dan Marino 2.0.

 

Be honest, do you think Brees and Josh Allen are the same, talent-wise?

Dan Marino not a HOFer?

 

Are you saying McDermott is Don Shula? Are these criticisms?

[LeviF]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Dan Marino not a HOFer?

 

Are you saying McDermott is Don Shula? Are these criticisms?

 

Dan Marino was destined to be a HOFer the minute he stepped on to the field. Unbelievable talent throwing the football.

 

But he has zero rings to show for it. Which, barring some significant strides in coaching and roster building, is Josh Allen's current trajectory under Sean McDermott.

[Andrew Son]

5 hours ago, LeviF said:

Payton turned Brees into a HOFer. 

 

Sean McDermott is turning Josh Allen into Dan Marino 2.0.

 

Be honest, do you think Brees and Josh Allen are the same, talent-wise?

QB "talent" for me is always hard to quantify.  How would you compare Josh vs. Brady talent wise?