This offense was doomed from the start

[Roundybout]

18 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The question is, what happened to the offense from the beginning of the year? Was it figured out? After the bye it looked like a different team

Seems to me that defensive coordinators got 4 weeks of tape on us and adjusted, and Dorsey was not able to change anything.

[clayboy54]

19 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I'm on the fire Dorsey train, but until the line is fixed, nothing good will happen.

I agree that the OL needs a major upgrade. However, the Bengals OL is right there with us in the "needs help" category. Especially on Sunday with their injuries they fielded a mediocre group and barely gave up pressure.

 

Its all about how you call protections and the responsibilities for each of the guys. This is exactly why Dion looked like crap this year. He didn't suddenly forget how to play. The key is that Kromer's line is not on the same page as Dorsey's play calls. We all know that Aaron Kromer has fielded some of the best lines. Therefore, it has to be on Dorsey. (Nevermind what this has done to Josh.) 

[Roundybout]

Im crying laughing at that rep by Saffold, he should be forced to return the salary we paid him. 

[clayboy54]

5 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Im crying laughing at that rep by Saffold, he should be forced to return the salary we paid him. 

We used to call that a "look-out" block. You just yell, "Look-Out!"

[SoCal Deek]

The offense was far from doomed. It performed very well throughout the year and would’ve been even better had Josh just stopped turning the ball over deep in the red zone (not intended as Josh bashing). But…we ALL knew that it would live or die in improvement at the offensive line; especially in the running game. That clearly didn’t happen. Not sure what the new OL Coach was doing all season long, but whatever it was, it was an utter disaster. 

[filthymcnasty08]

We ran a dome offense this year.  We relied  too much off the big play.  Where we could not get the ball downfield, we seemed to be making up the other options as we go. 

 

Sunday, the elements worked against the home team because the visibility downfield was very difficult, and we had no short/med pass game or run game to fall back on.  Save for the occasional Knox, Beas, Dirty, Shakir catch, we had nothing consistent when Diggs/Gabe weren't having big games downfield.

 

We need that running game threat to pull a safety in the box and create 1-0n-1 situations.  We refused to do it Sunday and Mixon ate our lunch.  We would be indefensible with a RB that could run inside/outside and we would save our QB's life.  The hits he took Sunday were f'n scary.

 

Daboll's double/triple option RPO designs were so much a part of things and that element seemed to be missing this year.  Josh used to be able to freeze the D and create opportunities.  This year, we looked more predictable.  To me, a LOT of the problem was in the offensive play design.  

 

 

 

 

[T master]

I'm not real sure doomed would be the right term but Dorsey needs to look at him self in the mirror & take all of this seasons tape and watch it until he's sick & watch the Bengals game because he looked to make NO adjustments to what they were doing from what i could see .

 

We may need to hire Romo as the OC because he was saying in the broadcast that they needed the quick 2 step drop passing game to get their D off of them but Dorsey still called plays where Josh did the 7 step drop pat the ball wait for someone to get open & SACK !! 

 

Given that the Bills got Cook, Hines, plus Beasley, Shakir, Mckenzie & others (What i thought) for exactly the type of under neath quick passing game plan that they needed to implement for the Bengals yet they never did & i thought that maybe even using their hurry up offense could have helped to some extent but Dorsey didn't use either .

 

There also was a definite drop off on the D line with out Phillips & Daquan in there of course Von could have helped but we all know why he wasn't out there.

 

I saw Poyer miss quite a few tackles in that game to so if he will be asking for top dollar i would ask him to watch the tape of this game. Yes he is usually a good player but he just wasn't up to par this game & seeing as their O line had 3 starters out the Bills D should have dominated them but didn't .

 

Ed is suppose to be this great player but he's only really good if he has someone else next to him to make him better so exactly how dominate is he ? Top dollar dominate or middle of the road dominate ? 

 

This game has shown the coaching staff & Beane all the weaknesses they have & where the upgrades need to be in both players & scheme to beat the best i believe if Dorsey would scheme a short game rather than what we saw in this one that game could have at the very least been much more competitive than it was .

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

53 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I'm not on the fire McDermott train. I'm not even on the fire Dorsey train (yet), but this offense was set up to fail from the beggining. We won 14 games, so obviously this team is good, but once they got to the playoffs, this team was doomed.

 

They draft Shakir, who had a great game early against the steelers. Then they basically keep throwing mckenzie out there while Josh is sailing passes 5 feet over his head on the sideline, rather than keep Shakir out there to get game experience and reps. On top of that, rather than get Hodgins on the active roster, a taller receiver who probly could've made those high passes, they let him walk and re sign brown and beasley way too late in the season. Davis Imo is still a good weapon, but after you take him and Diggs out of the game, the bills are left with nothing. And frustratingly, the bills never changed this the entire season. Hey, maybe you play the guy you drafted to be here the next 4 years (Shakir) and not mckenzie who's had little impact on the offense. I haven't even mentioned cook, who was basically benched after he fumbled his first carry. OK, well bass was terrible when he first came in and they stuck with him and now he's one of the best kickers in the nfl. Cook will be good, but maybe don't bench him and give him no carries for 3 games, or however long it was. All of the fans worries and woes with the offense this season was 100% warranted. The whole "doesn't matter how we win as long as we win" is not true Imo. Sadly, what we saw on Sunday against the Bengals was inevitable. Even if we snuck past the benagals, it's likely we lose to kc. It's frustrating because I feel like the coaching staff could've changed things earlier in the season. Like say after Green Bay. Maybe they should've taken a good hard look at why the offense had these long in game droughts. Lastly, I know there's mixed opinions on how Diggs acted Sunday, but I wish he had done it earlier. Like week 8 maybe to help fix the offensive woes. I give them credit for winning 14 games, but I hate to say I believe the bills over achieved this season. Sorry to make this so long, just had to get some stuff off my chest 

Its the Play calling that is the issue as well. 

 

First and 20, we run the ball

**3rd and shorts, every rout is running deep (I mean you can do this now and then but not every third and short)

Quick passes called at horrible times

**Screens and quick catch plays not being called enough.

**Most of the routs in general being run 10+ yards.

giving up on the running game to early

 

And to the Bolded **

We are doing these things while we have a bum offensive line.

 

And what plays do we call when you have bad offensive line pass protection.

1. You run the ball more

2. Be creative with plays that LET your QB get the ball out of his hands quicker.

3. Pre-snap movement. 

4. Bubble Screens, Left, Right, Middle.

 

There was one game when Dorsey had it right. The Steelers game or the Packers game, there were so many "within 10 yard" throws and JA was throwing so fast That Collinsworth said he thought he was watching Tom Brady. And then in the 4th quarter when the Db's had no choice but to crowd the line? Josh threw deep passes.

 

THIS OFFENSE WAS SET UP FOR FAILURE.  

 

Sure you will see in the All 22, JA missing 2-3 open WR. But that is every QB.

 

I mean for god sakes. there was one back yard drawn up plan where 3 WR ran routs that put them all within 3 yards of each other.

 

Fix the damn offensive line if you want to play call like this.

 

THIS TEAM HAS 0 SITUATIONAL AWARENESS 

 

 

 

[BananaB]

One of Bills biggest problems is how McDs lack of trust in young players. Maybe it’s he’s to loyal to his vets. Shakir not playing over McKenzie was a joke. Mid season we had Jackson getting burned on just about every 3rd and long imaginable yet Elam sat in the bench. We draft all these players for his D and they are hardly contributing until late into their contracts. Cook and Hines babied into the offense, weren’t they brought here for a reason? Why are they not being used. This team is not improving and it’s not just on O, it’s everywhere. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by BananaB

[Donuts and Doritos]

We had the Aaron Rodgers Offense of the last couple years, great QB, 1 great WR & notta lot else.

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

I don't think we would have beaten SF. Their defense against the Bills OL. Allen would be running for his life all game. The Bills defense trying to stop Deebo, CMC etc etc. Bad matchup for the Bills against the 49ers IMHO. The 49ers would do what the Bengals did and just out physical the Bills on both sides of the ball. 

If you thought the bengals matchup was bad for us let me introduce you to Kyle shanahan scheming up CMC, deebo, aiyuk, kittle, and Jennings open against this lazy frazier defense. Can you imagine us trying to tackle them? We are the worst tackling team. Bosa and Warner would’ve eaten this crappy o line for lunch and josh might not have made it out alive. Niners are winning the SB even with Purdy. Seeing their roster dwarf our roster is sad to look at.. and that’s after they wasted multiple 1sts on lance. Imagine if they kept those picks. 

[Brand J]

I think one thing’s for certain: these coaches have tape of every play from every game. They can see if the offensive scheme is a problem (ie no open receivers) versus if their QB is just making the wrong reads/forcing plays, etc. If Dorsey is back, I think it’ll speak volumes that the problem wasn’t mostly scheme based. If players are open, which is what falls on the coordinator, but they aren’t getting the ball, you have to look at the trigger man. And of course his protection. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by JayBaller10

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Will they do that while being ok with notable potential downgrades at certain positions on the Defense?  Not sure..

They will be just fine.  For the last 3 years the Bills have ignored the offense depending on Allen to be productive surrounded by average to below average talent (with the exception of Diggs) while throwing most of the FA money & draft capital at the defense.  And while that has helped us win a lot of games during the regular season and pile up great D statistics, defensive collapses have directly led to our exit from the playoffs in the last 3 seasons.

 

To quadruple down for a 4th straight season would be madness.  Worse it would be professionally negligent and incompetent.  The ONLY way forward is to throw disproportionate resources at the offense surrounding the best player on the team with complimentary talent.

 

The defense will have to make due.  This means Frazier must go and a younger, hungrier DC put in his place.  That DC will have to know that the goal is not a top 5 defense statistically but a defense that can compliment a powerhouse offense.  Think the Chiefs defense. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

The offense was far from doomed. It performed very well throughout the year and would’ve been even better had Josh just stopped turning the ball over deep in the red zone (not intended as Josh bashing). But…we ALL knew that it would live or die in improvement at the offensive line; especially in the running game. That clearly didn’t happen. Not sure what the new OL Coach was doing all season long, but whatever it was, it was an utter disaster. 

The fact that we had to sign Brown & Beasley off the street late in the season is all you need to know about the lack of weapons on this offense. Outside of Diggs name me ONE Bills TE, WR, or RB that would have started on the Eagles, Bengal's, 49's or Chiefs? This is not about Allen throwing more red zone picks in a desperate attempt to generate points with a weak supporting cast - it's all about the weak supporting cast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

I would give up our first rounder for Hopkins.  Beane can figure out how to make room in the cap.

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

Im crying laughing at that rep by Saffold, he should be forced to return the salary we paid him. 

 

It's like he heard a whistle or something and stopped playing.  Your hearing gets weird as you age....you start hearing things.  

[harmonkillebrew]

Under-investment in the Offense, relying on Josh to float everyone.  

WRs - relied on Gabe, Knox and McKenzie to take the next step. They didn't. Brought back Beasely and Smoke when we realized it.

RBs - Cook has potential, but motor has never been the complement Josh needs

Oline - Brought in a washed up Saffold and generally a bunch of linemen that are better run blockers than pass blockers

Coach - Dorsey made sense to replace Daboll, but we need to bring in someone with real experience and a track record

 

This offseason needs to focus on surrounding Josh with better players/coaches

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

The question is, what happened to the offense from the beginning of the year? Was it figured out? After the bye it looked like a different team

I'm trying to figure things out as well, but only 1.4 ppg difference before/after the bye.

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The fact that we had to sign Brown & Beasley off the street late in the season is all you need to know about the lack of weapons on this offense. Outside of Diggs name me ONE Bills TE, WR, or RB that would have started on the Eagles, Bengal's, 49's or Chiefs? This is not about Allen throwing more red zone picks in a desperate attempt to generate points with a weak supporting cast - it's all about the weak supporting cast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t disagree that you can always get better but we did exactly what we set out to do at the start of training camp. We had the best regular season record, and home field advantage. What more could those improvements have done? They were right where we wanted them to be since early August! The coaching staff simply didn’t properly prepare their players to play a football game on Sunday. And no number of new players is going to change that next year or the year after. 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

The question is, what happened to the offense from the beginning of the year? Was it figured out? After the bye it looked like a different team

I'm trying to figure things out as well, but only 1.4 ppg difference before/after the bye.

 

The problem as I see it, besides needing better drafting and a focus on the OL, is that the team seems to have no offense strategy.  It's a longer answer, but it seems very ad hoc.

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

I don’t disagree that you can always get better but we did exactly what we set out to do at the start of training camp. We had the best regular season record, and home field advantage. What more could those improvements have done? They were right where we wanted them to be since early August! The coaching staff simply didn’t properly prepare their players to play a football game on Sunday. And no number of new players is going to change that next year or the year after. 

Fair points and if this was a one off I would be optimistic for next season. But it isn't a one off and indicates to me that in addition to the coaches not having the team prepared for 3 years in a row there are structural issues contributing to these playoff failures. And playoff failures have become a plural and not a singular issue.

 

And you're right, new players alone won't change things.  But the right new players might.  There has to be a new direction in where the Bills put their money & draft capitol and that is on the offense.  I would be okay with only one coaching change and that is to not renew Farzier's contract.  Dorsey gets a bit of a pass because this was his first season as OC and other then QB & WR1 he didn't have a lot to work with on offense.