Coaching Malpractice - Frazier Needs to be fired - the play that illustrates it

[NyQuil]

So do we know what date Frazier's contract expires?

[Jerome007]

As mush as it frustrates some of you, the "bend but don't break"  style of defense has worked for the most part. But that Bengals game, just wow. Chase all alone(!) for a TD. WRs often matched with LBs.  It's the worst case of "having being figured out'" I've ever seen. Burrows and Chase didn't even have to do anything special. Their schemes and OLine did it all.

 

Frazier pissed me off to no end by not adjusting. Look, we basically all thought the Bills front four would pressure Burrows against a banged up Bengals OLine, that isn't that good to begin with. Well once you realize they're getting manhandled, do something! Blitz. Bring Klein from time to time. Nope. Just that expressionless serious face while the Dline gets pushed around like juniors.

 

As for Dorsey, seeing so many good offensive play designs by all playoff teams, it just shows how vanilla the Bills offense has been. WTH. First year as OC or not, how can that even be? This isn't on the fly playcalling and adjusting, it's work and preparation through the week and season. No excuse for that, none.

 

And for all the Diva outbursts, Diggs is RIGHT. Remember his amazing route running at the goal line, or for quick outs and back shoulder throws? Where were they these last weeks? It's not HIS fault. He's always delivered when called upon. Another case of coaches outsmarting themselves.

 

Fire them both. Find new OC and DC. And as for the HC, all this comes back to him. And his language of "not figuring out what the Bengals were doing". Instead of adjusting to them, bring it to them! So disappointed in the coaches. If not only the fans but the players lose confidence in the leadership, it will be ugly.

[Just in Atlanta]

Corners lining up 10 yards from the receivers, who play for a quick-release QB ...

 

No disruption ...

 

No taking away of any weapons.

 

Just the same defense over and over: Soft zone, prevent the big play,. keep gap integrity. 

It works for the regular season, as we have an offense that's high-scoring, but it doesn't work for the playoffs. Plus, you can add missed tackles and a defensive line that failed to get any push. 

 

The pathetic defensive strategy and play-calling alone are ammunition to move on from our DC, who I've been a fan of. But we have (at least) two other playoff whiffs to add to it - the Dolphins and KC. 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

If this is the same crap we get next year then I am not going to invest another penny into this team. Awesome, we finally have our quarterback but neglect to protect him or give him weapons. I'm not even going to talk about the defense. I'm so confused about them for words. Idk I'm done for a while. I need a break. I won't let the door hit me on the way out. 

[RunTheBall]

How many times does our defense have to get completely annihilated in the playoffs before changes are made? This is 3 in a row now. Frazier cannot be here next year and none of you guys can seriously believe he’s a head coaching candidate can you?

 

I’d get rid of Dorsey too. Zero rhythm to this offense, zero synch between running and passing schemes, zero use of our running backs in the passing game. Way to shorten the lifespan of our QB you absolute joke of an OC. He’s in way over his head and allowing Josh to have that much input into the OC was a mistake.

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

13 hours ago, whorlnut said:

In what world can McD complain about the talent of the players when he has spent most of the prime resources on his precious defense?

A failure in talent evaluation?

[fan_in_tx]

14 hours ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

Third and 4 (see below).  You all remember it.  This play is important for two reasons:

 

1.  It shows a complete lack of defensive situational awareness on what can be given up on a play.

2.  It is the exact same mistake that was made during 13 seconds.  On this play, they are guarding the end zone, but will easily give up the first down.  On 13 seconds, we were guarding the end zone, but willing to give up the two quick plays needed for a field goal.

 

It is actually worse because this play typified our defensive philosophy for most of the day.  I'm a level headed guy who does not normally call for firings (as if that matters), but this is beyond belief.  There is simply no excuse to give so much space in this situation.  I know I am not an expert.  In my mind, this only makes it worse.  Like probably half of Bills fandom, I was yelling at my screen before the snap.  Shouldn't an expert been able to see what we all saw?

 

I can be patient:

Trey - He wasn't what he was last year, but at least I can have hope that he will be back to his old self next year.

Poyer - Not his best game, but he was playing with Hyde, Hamlin, Marlowe, Johnson so I'll cut him some slack that he couldn't be himself.

Dorsey - Not happy with him, but I can at least talk myself into the fact that this was his first year as a coordinator.

 

But with Frazier I can have absolutely no confidence that he has learned how ridiculously bad this is.  Last year I was hoping that he would be hired away from us.  This year I don't think I have any hope of that.  

 

He's smarter than me, he knows more about defense than I ever will, yada, yada, but you don't have to work for NASA to realize that spacecraft need to be air tight. 

Have you ever played in wet snow like above?  I understand he was more concerned with moving backwards than forwards...  You play press or in front of the first down you need to turn and catch up on any deeper routes and will give up a TD.   No easy answers with the conditions.. If we could have pressured Burrow like Cincy pressured Josh.. then this would not be a concern.. Our receivers were open just like Cincy's .. Josh didn't have time to get it to them.. 

[PetermansRedemption]

1 hour ago, Dawgg said:

From Tyler Dunne:

 

At Highmark Stadium, it was clear that the Bills were not going to stop Joe Burrow and this Bengals offense. Immediately. Everything was so easy, so breezy through 79- and 72-yard touchdown drives to start this game. Cincy’s passing game was akin to a game of catch in the backyard with Bills defenders lining up so far off the ball. Blaming defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier for this is unbelievably short-sighted. Yes, he calls the plays but this entire defense is Sean McDermott’s baby. He runs it. It’s his show. Philosophically, he wants a unit that’ll bend, bend, bend and bend some more in hopes of never breaking. There’s minimal risk. No disguise. And certainly not a slot corner like Cincy’s Mike Hilton blitzing off the edge to change a game.

The McDermott scheme begs the offense to nickel-and-dime its way down the field. That’ll earn you juicy stats against inferior quarterbacks in the middle of September.

 

Not so much against the best in the NFL.

 

Burrow essentially said “Don’t mind if I do!” exactly as Patrick Mahomes did those final 13 seconds of regulation one season ago. Before the first quarter was even over, the Bengals quarterback had completed passes to seven different players.

Fine, then fire them both. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Frazier is the longest tenured DC by far in the NFL.

 

Frazier hired in 2017. Every DC but 2 hired 2021 or later by next year. The 2 DC’s are the ones that beat us, Lou Anarumo and Steve Spagnola.

 

You guys might be right, it’s time:

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Low Positive]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Frazier is the longest tenured DC by far in the NFL.

 

 

I realize that this is a complain about Frazier, but I find it interesting that Kyle Shanahan found Mike McDaniel so important that he didn't even bother to replace him and just took over the nominal title of OC himself.

[damj]

14 hours ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

Third and 4 (see below).  You all remember it.  This play is important for two reasons:

 

1.  It shows a complete lack of defensive situational awareness on what can be given up on a play.

2.  It is the exact same mistake that was made during 13 seconds.  On this play, they are guarding the end zone, but will easily give up the first down.  On 13 seconds, we were guarding the end zone, but willing to give up the two quick plays needed for a field goal.

 

It is actually worse because this play typified our defensive philosophy for most of the day.  I'm a level headed guy who does not normally call for firings (as if that matters), but this is beyond belief.  There is simply no excuse to give so much space in this situation.  I know I am not an expert.  In my mind, this only makes it worse.  Like probably half of Bills fandom, I was yelling at my screen before the snap.  Shouldn't an expert been able to see what we all saw?

 

I can be patient:

Trey - He wasn't what he was last year, but at least I can have hope that he will be back to his old self next year.

Poyer - Not his best game, but he was playing with Hyde, Hamlin, Marlowe, Johnson so I'll cut him some slack that he couldn't be himself.

Dorsey - Not happy with him, but I can at least talk myself into the fact that this was his first year as a coordinator.

 

But with Frazier I can have absolutely no confidence that he has learned how ridiculously bad this is.  Last year I was hoping that he would be hired away from us.  This year I don't think I have any hope of that.  

 

He's smarter than me, he knows more about defense than I ever will, yada, yada, but you don't have to work for NASA to realize that spacecraft need to be air tight. 

Frazier's defense works optimally when 4 players are all healthy. Poyer, Hyde, Edmunds & Taron Johnson. Take 1 out and it doesn't work.

 

Even with all 4 playing, you're at a risk of 13 seconds failure.

 

They try to keep everything in front of them and not get beat deep. They'll give up short/intermediate passes all day and rely on eventually a play being made on 3rd down or the other offense making a mistake.

 

Great QBs make the plays and expose this defense.

[CincyBillsFan]

35 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

As mush as it frustrates some of you, the "bend but don't break"  style of defense has worked for the most part. But that Bengals game, just wow. Chase all alone(!) for a TD. WRs often matched with LBs.  It's the worst case of "having being figured out'" I've ever seen. Burrows and Chase didn't even have to do anything special. Their schemes and OLine did it all.

 

And that is why this type of defense is the crack cocaine of football - terribly addictive and it never ends well.  In our last 3 playoff loses the "bend but not break" defense broke and cost us the games.  I would trade a top 3 statistical ranking defense for a top 15 ranking defense that played it's best football in the playoffs.

 

 

[goldenboy81]

Same defense formation for years,no wonder teams know what to do

[Solomon Grundy]

I'd like to throw a name out there...Ed Reed for DC. Was a DB coach here. Or Jim Leonhard

Edited January 24, 2023 by Solomon Grundy

[Franco_92]

If you use press coverage with cover 0 you will give up a TD to one of chase/higgins/Boyd on 100 attempts out of 100. 

 

The problem was either tre missing his tackle or the jailhouse blitz call, not that we needed to press with the blitz

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

If you use press coverage with cover 0 you will give up a TD to one of chase/higgins/Boyd on 100 attempts out of 100. 

 

The problem was either tre missing his tackle or the jailhouse blitz call, not that we needed to press with the blitz

Pretty much. This D call isn’t who the Bills are on defense so it goes against most of the criticism of Frazier.

 

Nothing was working. They did try different things. This was an example of that.

 

 

[Long Suffering Fan]

2 hours ago, fan_in_tx said:

Have you ever played in wet snow like above?  I understand he was more concerned with moving backwards than forwards...  You play press or in front of the first down you need to turn and catch up on any deeper routes and will give up a TD.   No easy answers with the conditions.. If we could have pressured Burrow like Cincy pressured Josh.. then this would not be a concern.. Our receivers were open just like Cincy's .. Josh didn't have time to get it to them.. 

 

Sure.  IMO it makes the way they lined up worse because it is so much harder to close.

 

Burrow was getting the ball out so quick (most of the time) that any pass rush would have a hard time getting home.  He could do that effectively because of the cushion his WRs had.  Bills WRs, for the most part, had much less space early in the routes, which meant Josh had to hold and gave the Cinn pass rush a chance.

 

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

And that is why this type of defense is the crack cocaine of football - terribly addictive and it never ends well.  In our last 3 playoff loses the "bend but not break" defense broke and cost us the games.  I would trade a top 3 statistical ranking defense for a top 15 ranking defense that played it's best football in the playoffs.

 

I really like the way you think.  Honestly, what good is a defense that works against good teams, but not the best offenses.  We need our D to have a chance of success against the KCs and the Cinns of the league.  I don't care how good their defensive ranking is because they can dominate a team that went 500.

 

52 minutes ago, arcane said:

If you use press coverage with cover 0 you will give up a TD to one of chase/higgins/Boyd on 100 attempts out of 100. 

 

The problem was either tre missing his tackle or the jailhouse blitz call, not that we needed to press with the blitz

 

Arcane, come on, you know that is not correct, especially if they have to get the pass out quick - which they did most of the day.  Throws over the top are harder and Tre is going to be at least in the neighborhood.  The one thing that is 100% with that call is that they can get the first down if they want it.  That is why the call is so bad.

 

The Tre tackle thing - I respectfully disagree.  No one is making that tackle before the sticks.  They WR would need to be stood straight up and dropped immediately.  A WR of Chase's quality is always going to be able to take an angle and fall forward.  He is not going to be stopped, especially with that footing.  Let's say you did stop them half a yard short by some miracle.  Are we confident we are going to stop the fourth and a half?  I'm not.

 

And let's not forget the other three targets were given even more space.  Burrow had his pick of ways to get the first.

 

 

[Long Suffering Fan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Nothing was working. They did try different things. This was an example of that.

 

Okay, try different things, but don't try something that everyone knows will not work.  

 

Let me try framing it this way.  Would you try that exact same defense, except that all those not rushing are standing on the goal line?  No, on third and four, that would be absurd.  It would never work.  Why is that absurd?  Because it automatically gives up the first down.  The defense Frazier called is just as absurd for the exact same reason.

 

Again, my rant is not really about this play.  This play is merely an example of a REAL problem that will make it much harder for Buffalo to beat good teams in the playoffs.  It is the same problem as 13 seconds.

[Julio Hopkins]

It should have happened after the failure to put away the Chiefs last year.  

 

The "13 seconds" was an enormous coaching failure of epic proportion.

[Franco_92]

19 minutes ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

 

Sure.  IMO it makes the way they lined up worse because it is so much harder to close.

 

Burrow was getting the ball out so quick (most of the time) that any pass rush would have a hard time getting home.  He could do that effectively because of the cushion his WRs had.  Bills WRs, for the most part, had much less space early in the routes, which meant Josh had to hold and gave the Cinn pass rush a chance.

 

 

I really like the way you think.  Honestly, what good is a defense that works against good teams, but not the best offenses.  We need our D to have a chance of success against the KCs and the Cinns of the league.  I don't care how good their defensive ranking is because they can dominate a team that went 500.

 

 

Arcane, come on, you know that is not correct, especially if they have to get the pass out quick - which they did most of the day.  Throws over the top are harder and Tre is going to be at least in the neighborhood.  The one thing that is 100% with that call is that they can get the first down if they want it.  That is why the call is so bad.

 

The Tre tackle thing - I respectfully disagree.  No one is making that tackle before the sticks.  They WR would need to be stood straight up and dropped immediately.  A WR of Chase's quality is always going to be able to take an angle and fall forward.  He is not going to be stopped, especially with that footing.  Let's say you did stop them half a yard short by some miracle.  Are we confident we are going to stop the fourth and a half?  I'm not.

 

And let's not forget the other three targets were given even more space.  Burrow had his pick of ways to get the first.

 

 

No, no team playing cover 0 lines their DBs in press on the wide receiver lol. You want press coverage? Don't blitz 7 guys