Coaching Malpractice - Frazier Needs to be fired - the play that illustrates it

[Billl]

44 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

Again with a zero blitz called you do give cushion to the receivers but it's depending on the yards to gain, 3rd and 4 means you give about 6 yards of cushion max, not 8 or 9 yards. The goal is to force a quick throw and then make a tackle short of the line to gain.

That’s exactly what happened. Problem is, White was overmatched by Chase.  Chase plowed through White and got a first down, but he was stopped short of the goal line.  The Bills lost the battle, but they were able to hold the Bengals out of the end zone and made them settle for a FG…the exact same result as if White had made the tackle.

 

If Frazier had asked White to press Chase, the most likely result is that Chase beats him for a TD.  The same physical mismatch that allowed Chase to drag him for a first down would have given him the advantage against White’s press.  However, in the event that White had stepped up and made a great play…the Bengals would still would have kicked a FG.

 

Buffalo needed a stop there, and they got one.  They held Cincy to a FG, and then only allowed 10 more points the rest of the game.  That’s not bad.  You can beat the Bengals when you allow 27 points.  You can’t beat them when you score 10.  Leslie Frazier couldn’t shut down one of the best offenses in football without Miller, Hyde, Hamlin, or DaQuan and with White and Poyer at considerably less than 100%.  That’s not surprising.  Scoring 10 points was the surprise.

[peterpan]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:28 PM, FrenchConnection said:

Frazier can’t be fired because his contract expires after this season. He can, however, not be renewed.

First smile I’ve had since Sunday.  Please god let this be true!

[BillzFreak]

Just now, Billl said:

That’s exactly what happened. Problem is, White was overmatched by Chase.  Chase plowed through White and got a first down, but he was stopped short of the goal line.  The Bills lost the battle, but they were able to hold the Bengals out of the end zone and made them settle for a FG…the exact same result as if White had made the tackle.

 

If Frazier had asked White to press Chase, the most likely result is that Chase beats him for a TD.  The same physical mismatch that allowed Chase to drag him for a first down would have given him the advantage against White’s press.  However, in the event that White had stepped up and made a great play…the Bengals would still would have kicked a FG.

 

Buffalo needed a stop there, and they got one.  They held Cincy to a FG, and then only allowed 10 more points the rest of the game.  That’s not bad.  You can beat the Bengals when you allow 27 points.  You can’t beat them when you score 10.  Leslie Frazier couldn’t shut down one of the best offenses in football without Miller, Hyde, Hamlin, or DaQuan and with White and Poyer at considerably less than 100%.  That’s not surprising.  Scoring 10 points was the surprise.

I understand what you're saying but my point is he gave to much chusion on that play, the point is to make Burrow throw quick and chase catches the ball and trey should be there right when he catches it. Like a bang bang type of play. Chase caught the ball and was able to start running before Trey went for the tackle. And like you said once he caught it and was able to run it was over. Yes they eventually got a field goal on that drive which is what we wanted, but Frasier plays that defense all game. It's no surprise the Bengals were able to get 30 first downs on us. Yes it's on the players and coaches but that gameplan against that team wasn't going to work. They scored 27 but if they had to I'm pretty sure they could of scored more.

[LABILLBACKER]

Hopefully they don't renew his contract.  But whoever replaces him will be forced to run Derm's defense. 

[BillsFanForever19]

There's only 8 defenders in the picture, so obviously the other 3 are playing deep.

 

That's something that's driven me nuts though watching Bills Defense the past few years. They are consistently playing at least one CB 8-10 yards deep. They just give teams 1st Downs at will if they accept what is given.

 

The "bend but don't break" approach sometimes prevents the long ball. But it puts the team in Goal Line situations far too often bc the opponent can just march down the field.

Edited January 25, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[stevestojan]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:30 PM, Einstein said:

 

Normally i’d agree, but in this particular situation, the OP’s photo really does tell the truth.

The Bills lined up 10 yards off the ball and never moved. Even after the snap. Tre only moved after the ball was caught.

 

So incredibly easy to beat.

 

Here is a photo after the snap.

 

This picture is unreal. Frazier should be fired for a list of reasons. But this alone should be enough. 

[PrimeTime101]

Let him walk.

[Livinginthepast]

8 hours ago, Billl said:

That’s exactly what happened. Problem is, White was overmatched by Chase.  Chase plowed through White and got a first down, but he was stopped short of the goal line.  The Bills lost the battle, but they were able to hold the Bengals out of the end zone and made them settle for a FG…the exact same result as if White had made the tackle.

 

If Frazier had asked White to press Chase, the most likely result is that Chase beats him for a TD.  The same physical mismatch that allowed Chase to drag him for a first down would have given him the advantage against White’s press.  However, in the event that White had stepped up and made a great play…the Bengals would still would have kicked a FG.

 

Buffalo needed a stop there, and they got one.  They held Cincy to a FG, and then only allowed 10 more points the rest of the game.  That’s not bad.  You can beat the Bengals when you allow 27 points.  You can’t beat them when you score 10.  Leslie Frazier couldn’t shut down one of the best offenses in football without Miller, Hyde, Hamlin, or DaQuan and with White and Poyer at considerably less than 100%.  That’s not surprising.  Scoring 10 points was the surprise.

I think the Bills got a stop there only because the Bengals need room to run their offense and within the 10 yard line there isnt the optimum amount of space.  Frazier cant run a soft zone with Dbs standing 10- 15 yards back because they literally dont have 10-15 yards from the LOS. Ironically Fraziers soft zone is forced by the field position to be closer to the receivers making its closer to man.

[Coffeesforclosers]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Hopefully they don't renew his contract.  But whoever replaces him will be forced to run Derm's defense. 

 

Not to sound like a broken record, but the Cover 1 guys got into this as well. They said that Frazier and McD's defense is tapped out.  That the players have mastered all of its schemes and concepts, and all Frazier could do was add more audibles and checks.  Bills players were telling them that there were as many as 14 checks per defensive call.  That the defense has reached Rex Ryan levels of overcomplicated.

 

Meanwhile, offenses have learned.  Since the Bills only have a handful of formations and personnel groupings, pre snap motion is guaranteed to get defenders out of position. We've seen it over and over again, where motion creates coverage mismatches, or pulls run defenders out of the box. 

[T master]

Not real sure that your evaluation is the best the Bills love to disguise what they are showing on defense before the snap & we don't see what happened as the play moves forward .

 

I agree that with who the wide outs they are defending our DB's need to jam the hell out of them at the line to disrupt the play but just not sure what was as the play moves forward .

[billsherd]

Bills thought cover the endzone as they might take a shot or play the run and totally ignored the sticks. Not saying its  the right way to go about it

[Trogdor]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:19 PM, Long Suffering Fan said:

Trey - He wasn't what he was last year, but at least I can have hope that he will be back to his old self next year.

Trey wasn't exactly lighting it up before the injury either. He was getting picked on more as teams showed that they weren't scared of him. Shut down corner might be the shortest window in all of football and now with the mental struggles it's looking less likely. He will still be good, but I wouldn't expect Revis. 

[WideNine]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:19 PM, Long Suffering Fan said:

Third and 4 (see below).  You all remember it.  This play is important for two reasons:

 

1.  It shows a complete lack of defensive situational awareness on what can be given up on a play.

2.  It is the exact same mistake that was made during 13 seconds.  On this play, they are guarding the end zone, but will easily give up the first down.  On 13 seconds, we were guarding the end zone, but willing to give up the two quick plays needed for a field goal.

 

It is actually worse because this play typified our defensive philosophy for most of the day.  I'm a level headed guy who does not normally call for firings (as if that matters), but this is beyond belief.  There is simply no excuse to give so much space in this situation.  I know I am not an expert.  In my mind, this only makes it worse.  Like probably half of Bills fandom, I was yelling at my screen before the snap.  Shouldn't an expert been able to see what we all saw?

 

I can be patient:

Trey - He wasn't what he was last year, but at least I can have hope that he will be back to his old self next year.

Poyer - Not his best game, but he was playing with Hyde, Hamlin, Marlowe, Johnson so I'll cut him some slack that he couldn't be himself.

Dorsey - Not happy with him, but I can at least talk myself into the fact that this was his first year as a coordinator.

 

But with Frazier I can have absolutely no confidence that he has learned how ridiculously bad this is.  Last year I was hoping that he would be hired away from us.  This year I don't think I have any hope of that.  

 

He's smarter than me, he knows more about defense than I ever will, yada, yada, but you don't have to work for NASA to realize that spacecraft need to be air tight. 

 

This defense IMO relies on offenses making mistakes and is designed to keep things in front of defenders by playing off receivers and only giving up short completions.

 

Problems arise when your DL cannot pressure the QB into mistakes, when facing a QB that is elite and can deliver even with pressure, and your secondary defenders miss on tackles or get dragged past the sticks vs larger WRs and TEs.

 

You simply give up chunks of yards and extended drives as they work their way down the field.

 

Even worse if you are giving up a 1st down on the doorstep and the opposing team has 3 opportunities to either hit a variety of talented receiving options or go with the running game that is churning out 5-8 yards a pop.

 

We may be scheme-constrained with coaching, but I think we definitely did not have the pieces needed to help make our existing scheme effective.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by WideNine

[PauleeeWalnuts]

Says it all right here 

[bills742]