Why do Beane/McDermott place low value on selecting WR's in the draft?

[Jerry Jabber]

13 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

2 years ago our starters were diggs brown Beasley McKenzie with Davis as #4 and impressing as a rookie. 
 

last year we had diggs sanders Beasley Davis. 
 

to say we never gave him tools is beyond idiotic. The roster construction failed this year as crowder got hurt and Davis failed under pressure of trying to be #2 and McKenzie severely regressing and not being reliable. I don’t think anyone was seriously questioning our playmakers the past 3 years. As of right now though yea we need to put in work to fix this position. 

Never said the Bills “never” gave Allen the tools, I asked why do the Bills place such a low value on WR’s in the draft? Brown and Beasley were great FA signings, but they both got older and their production started to drop. Davis was good as a 3rd and 4th WR, not so much as a 2nd WR. Expecting lower round draft picks to make huge impacts as receivers was a flawed expectation. Not saying all lower round WR’s can’t be successful, but look at this year, thinking Shakir could step right into a starting role was very unrealistic.

[The Jokeman]

Just now, BobBelcher said:

 

It's hard not to wonder if we didn't use Shakir enough?  He made some great plays when we called his number this season.  Makes you wonder, if he were given an expanded role, would he come through?  Like Hodgins did for Daboll in NY.  Yeah I know, completely different players, but my point is, is it a matter of how we are (incorrectly) evaluating our talent?  

Shakir did look good yesterday, Romo mentioned he could be good contributor next year. He might develop but a to me like him in the 4th guy role and do more than McKenzie can as a catcher.

Just now, Jerry Jabber said:

Never said the Bills “never” gave Allen the tools, I asked why do the Bills place such a low value on WR’s in the draft? Brown and Beasley were great FA signings, but they both got older and their production started to drop. Davis was good as a 3rd and 4th WR, not so much as a 2nd WR. Expecting lower round draft picks to make huge impacts as receivers was a flawed expectation. Not saying all lower round WR’s can’t be successful, but look at this year, thinking Shakir could step right into a starting role was very unrealistic.

Nobody was expecting Shakir to start. The thought was Davis be his playoff self in the regular season and Crowder/McKenzie man the slot. The last two weren't close to filling the Beasley role. Shakir was more of the developing young WR ala 2019 Davis. 

[buffblue]

42 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

McBean would rather draft Boogie Basham than a WR who can help Josh

Talk about a worthless pick. He is roughly as effective as IK Enemkpali or Copeland Bryan lol

[dave mcbride]

I am bullish on Shakir.

[Jerry Jabber]

17 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Shakir did look good yesterday, Romo mentioned he could be good contributor next year. He might develop but a to me like him in the 4th guy role and do more than McKenzie can as a catcher.

Nobody was expecting Shakir to start. The thought was Davis be his playoff self in the regular season and Crowder/McKenzie man the slot. The last two weren't close to filling the Beasley role. Shakir was more of the developing young WR ala 2019 Davis. 

Disagree on Shakir. He was on the active roster over Hodgins and was talked up by the team and by WGR550.

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Jerry Jabber said:

Disagree on Shakir. He was on the active roster over Hodgins and was talked up by the team and by WGR550.

Hodgins couldn't stay healthy nor play on ST. That's why he didn't stick around here. 

[djp14150]

1 hour ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Since Beane/McDermott have been with the Bills since 2017, the Bills have had seven 1st round picks, five of which have been used on the defense, two of them for the offense [Allen, Diggs (1st used in the trade to the Vikings)]. Without a doubt, Allen is a generational talent at QB, but outside of Diggs, the Bills WR is full of underachievers. Davis underwhelmed as a #2 WR and is a #3 WR at best. McKenzie could not handle the starting slot WR role. Crowder, Shakir and the others were either slot or gadget type players. Beasley and Brown were brought back to the team because of how badly the WR corps performed (outside of Diggs). 

 

Since 2017, the highest the Bills drafted a WR was in the 2nd round [Zay Jones], the rest have been all between the 4th and 7th rounds:

Ray Ray McCloud – 6th round (2018)

Austin Proehl – 7th round (2018)

2019 – No WRs drafted

Gabe Davis – 4th round (2020)

Isaiah Hodgins – 6th round (2020)

Marquez Stevenson – 6th round (2021)

Khalil Shakir – 5th round (2022)

 

I don't understand why the Bills have not given Allen all the tools to be successful? Beane maneuvered up and down the draft board to get in position to draft Allen, then gave him a $258 million dollar contract. Why does Beane/McDermott undervalue the WR position so much? Diggs cannot do everything on his own. When Diggs is double covered and taken out of the game, the rest of the WR's struggle to get open and catch on a consistent basis. With drafting lower round WR's, most of the time, they're not going to be NFL ready in year one. It took Hodgins to year three to show he can stay healthy and show some promise, but instead, the Bills kept Shakir on the active roster and put Hodgins on the Practice Squad, by which Hodgins was signed by the Giants. So if it takes Shakir three years to show promise, are the Bills going to take another low round rookie and keep that unproven rookie over a player they took the time to develop and train (like Hodgins?) Hate to say it, but I feel Beane/McDermott value RB's higher than WR's as we've seen Singletary and Moss drafted in the 3rd and Cook in the second. 

 

Bottom line, Allen cannot do it all. Expecting Allen to continually stretch out plays, make things happen with his feet does not work out 100% of the time. Chiefs and Bengals have multiple weapons for Mahomes and Burrow, if the Bills are serious about winning a Superbowl, they need to give the same type of receivers to Allen before they waste all his good years.

 

ummmm….they traded a 1st for Diggs……

 

look at success/ failure rate of WRs picked high in the draft like top 20.

 

https://www.drafthistory.com/positions/wr.html

 

 

[BananaB]

McDs defense comes first. 

[KOKBILLS]

The Bills could have easily had DK Metcalf...Fell right into our laps...In the 2nd...The 2nd!!!

 

I'm still hurt...Wounded...I had so many plans...

[Jerry Jabber]

8 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Hodgins couldn't stay healthy nor play on ST. That's why he didn't stick around here. 

I remember he was injured his first two seasons, but the Bills still took the time to develop him and he showed a lot of promise in preseason. Not saying Hodgins would have put up huge numbers, but he looked a lot better with the Giants than Shakir did this year. 

7 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

ummmm….they traded a 1st for Diggs……

 

look at success/ failure rate of WRs picked high in the draft like top 20.

 

https://www.drafthistory.com/positions/wr.html

 

 

I said that about Diggs in my post, did you miss that?

Edited January 24, 2023 by Jerry Jabber

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Jerry Jabber said:

I remember he was injured his first two seasons, but the Bills still took the time to develop him and he showed a lot of promise in preseason. Not saying Hodgins would have put up huge numbers, but he looked a lot better with the Giants than Shakir did this year. 

It's cuz Hodgins was starting with the Giants and as you eluded been around 3 years. Shakir is a rookie. Would I like Hodgins now to be our slot guy? Hell yeah but Shakir to me a more complete player.

[whorlnut]

50 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

2 years ago our starters were diggs brown Beasley McKenzie with Davis as #4 and impressing as a rookie. 
 

last year we had diggs sanders Beasley Davis. 
 

to say we never gave him tools is beyond idiotic. The roster construction failed this year as crowder got hurt and Davis failed under pressure of trying to be #2 and McKenzie severely regressing and not being reliable. I don’t think anyone was seriously questioning our playmakers the past 3 years. As of right now though yea we need to put in work to fix this position. 

Beyond idiotic?  Give me a break. It’s completely reasonable to question them. Davis was basically handed the WR2 gig after his big game against KC. They betted on him and lost. To make it worse, they didn’t bring in anyone for him to compete with, which is something they talk about ad nauseum. Crowder?  Ok. Whatever. But on a one year deal with a history of injuries?  McKenzie?  How does this guy keep staying on this roster?  All the criticism over the neglect at WR is completely warranted for Beane and McD. 

[Jerry Jabber]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Beyond idiotic?  Give me a break. It’s completely reasonable to question them. Davis was basically handed the WR2 gig after his big game against KC. They betted on him and lost. To make it worse, they didn’t bring in anyone for him to compete with, which is something they talk about ad nauseum. Crowder?  Ok. Whatever. But on a one year deal with a history of injuries?  McKenzie?  How does this guy keep staying on this roster?  All the criticism over the neglect at WR is completely warranted for Beane and McD. 

Agree 100% on Davis. After that, I don’t know what their plan was for #3 and #4 WR. Seemed Beane/McDermott were hoping Crowder and McKenzie would split the slot WR position, but even before Crowder got hurt, he wasn’t effective. In an expanded role, McKenzie regressed. 

[djp14150]

12 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

I remember he was injured his first two seasons, but the Bills still took the time to develop him and he showed a lot of promise in preseason. Not saying Hodgins would have put up huge numbers, but he looked a lot better with the Giants than Shakir did this year. 

I said that about Diggs in my post, did you miss that?

 

your premise was Bills not drafting WRs high.

 

i said they traded their 1st for a WR. How do you not count that?

 

as I also said ( you ignored)…. Look at the success rate in drafting WRs with top 20 picks.  Even top 50 drsfted.  Their is a high failure rate.  They don’t plan wasting a pick on an unpredictable position.

 

As for Hodgins…..

 

he didn’t play STs which hurt him.  Buffalo hasn’t had big injuries with Diggs/ Davis for him to get a shot.

 

from a  structure standpoint in buffalo

 

5 WRs on a team—2 outside and slot, one who has speed if the others don’t. The 5 the could go to a rookie. You might have another on the team for returning/ special teams.

 

thsts common in the nfl if you are back ups behind 2 very good players snd don’t get a chance until a PS pluck on you are a FA.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Like just about everything else…this isn’t complicated! All you need to see to understand the utterly dismal state of the Bills player evaluation “process” is look at what Hodgins did when given a chance on the Giants, while the Bills then went dumpster diving for John Brown and Cole Beasley. 

[BarleyNY]

14 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Since Beane/McDermott have been with the Bills since 2017, the Bills have had seven 1st round picks, five of which have been used on the defense, two of them for the offense [Allen, Diggs (1st used in the trade to the Vikings)]. Without a doubt, Allen is a generational talent at QB, but outside of Diggs, the Bills WR is full of underachievers. Davis underwhelmed as a #2 WR and is a #3 WR at best. McKenzie could not handle the starting slot WR role. Crowder, Shakir and the others were either slot or gadget type players. Beasley and Brown were brought back to the team because of how badly the WR corps performed (outside of Diggs). 

 

Since 2017, the highest the Bills drafted a WR was in the 2nd round [Zay Jones], the rest have been all between the 4th and 7th rounds:

Ray Ray McCloud – 6th round (2018)

Austin Proehl – 7th round (2018)

2019 – No WRs drafted

Gabe Davis – 4th round (2020)

Isaiah Hodgins – 6th round (2020)

Marquez Stevenson – 6th round (2021)

Khalil Shakir – 5th round (2022)

 

I don't understand why the Bills have not given Allen all the tools to be successful? Beane maneuvered up and down the draft board to get in position to draft Allen, then gave him a $258 million dollar contract. Why does Beane/McDermott undervalue the WR position so much? Diggs cannot do everything on his own. When Diggs is double covered and taken out of the game, the rest of the WR's struggle to get open and catch on a consistent basis. With drafting lower round WR's, most of the time, they're not going to be NFL ready in year one. It took Hodgins to year three to show he can stay healthy and show some promise, but instead, the Bills kept Shakir on the active roster and put Hodgins on the Practice Squad, by which Hodgins was signed by the Giants. So if it takes Shakir three years to show promise, are the Bills going to take another low round rookie and keep that unproven rookie over a player they took the time to develop and train (like Hodgins?) Hate to say it, but I feel Beane/McDermott value RB's higher than WR's as we've seen Singletary and Moss drafted in the 3rd and Cook in the second. 

 

Bottom line, Allen cannot do it all. Expecting Allen to continually stretch out plays, make things happen with his feet does not work out 100% of the time. Chiefs and Bengals have multiple weapons for Mahomes and Burrow, if the Bills are serious about winning a Superbowl, they need to give the same type of receivers to Allen before they waste all his good years.

I agree with your overall point. The lack of resources allocated to WR is a very big problem and we’ve seen the results. I don’t think that Davis would be good in the slot though. He is more of a straight line guy who has some issues with separation. A stud slot WR would be the path of we keep Davis as a starter. It would work very well if the new addition could play inside or out so that we could take Davis off the field in two WR sets. 

 

One minor note - Mahomes has Kelce, but little else in the way of quality receiving options.  His WRs are not special at all. Previously he had one of the best with Hill, but he hasn’t missed a beat this season without him. Burrow’s WR corps is stacked, obviously. Anything remotely close to that would be amazing to have here. 

[ddaryl]

Why do they suck at drafting and developing OL?

 

why did we do little to help the offense the last few drafts?

 

why do they not get TE's more involved in the passing attack?

 

why do we not have a short game to counter teams who blitz or play us deep?

 

WHY ?

WHY? 

 

WHY?

 

 

[Dopey]

14 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Since Beane/McDermott have been with the Bills since 2017, the Bills have had seven 1st round picks, five of which have been used on the defense, two of them for the offense [Allen, Diggs (1st used in the trade to the Vikings)]. Without a doubt, Allen is a generational talent at QB, but outside of Diggs, the Bills WR is full of underachievers. Davis underwhelmed as a #2 WR and is a #3 WR at best. McKenzie could not handle the starting slot WR role. Crowder, Shakir and the others were either slot or gadget type players. Beasley and Brown were brought back to the team because of how badly the WR corps performed (outside of Diggs). 

 

Since 2017, the highest the Bills drafted a WR was in the 2nd round [Zay Jones], the rest have been all between the 4th and 7th rounds:

Ray Ray McCloud – 6th round (2018)

Austin Proehl – 7th round (2018)

2019 – No WRs drafted

Gabe Davis – 4th round (2020)

Isaiah Hodgins – 6th round (2020)

Marquez Stevenson – 6th round (2021)

Khalil Shakir – 5th round (2022)

 

I don't understand why the Bills have not given Allen all the tools to be successful? Beane maneuvered up and down the draft board to get in position to draft Allen, then gave him a $258 million dollar contract. Why does Beane/McDermott undervalue the WR position so much? Diggs cannot do everything on his own. When Diggs is double covered and taken out of the game, the rest of the WR's struggle to get open and catch on a consistent basis. With drafting lower round WR's, most of the time, they're not going to be NFL ready in year one. It took Hodgins to year three to show he can stay healthy and show some promise, but instead, the Bills kept Shakir on the active roster and put Hodgins on the Practice Squad, by which Hodgins was signed by the Giants. So if it takes Shakir three years to show promise, are the Bills going to take another low round rookie and keep that unproven rookie over a player they took the time to develop and train (like Hodgins?) Hate to say it, but I feel Beane/McDermott value RB's higher than WR's as we've seen Singletary and Moss drafted in the 3rd and Cook in the second. 

 

Bottom line, Allen cannot do it all. Expecting Allen to continually stretch out plays, make things happen with his feet does not work out 100% of the time. Chiefs and Bengals have multiple weapons for Mahomes and Burrow, if the Bills are serious about winning a Superbowl, they need to give the same type of receivers to Allen before they waste all his good years.

Mahomes lost Tyreek and had there 1st round RB sit behind a 7th rounder this year. Brought in a couple of retreads at WR.  Mahomes is better than Josh. It's that simple and it's ok to say. Right?!?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 hours ago, buffblue said:

Talk about a worthless pick. He is roughly as effective as IK Enemkpali or Copeland Bryan lol

 

I thought he had a nice game against Miami

[Sharky7337]

15 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

McBean would rather draft Boogie Basham than a WR who can help Josh

Hey he was number 7 tight end in the class A division in HS!