Discussion about Sean Payton

[BarleyNY]

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

at least one 1st round pick is what I've read

Thanks. I’d do this year’s first. I don’t think I’d do two firsts. If it’s this years first and another non-first round pick I’m having that conversation. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Green Lightning]

They extended McD, he's not going anywhere. And that raises the question many of us want to dance around. Is this a guy who can win it all? 13 seconds shook my confidence in him to the core. Incomprehensible decision. If another DC comes in and McD wants the same permanent nickel defense, why change Frazier at all? If he's okay with no run game (take Josh out of the equation) and zero short passing game, then what diff does it make to change out the OC? This iteration of the Bills makes for a good team, wins lots of games, but haphazard and unpredictable and rides on Josh 100%. It's clear this team is not championship caliber. The players, coaches and schemes need a thorough vetting and changes made. This team and their coaches are not good enough. 

[May Day 10]

McDermott is fine IMO

 

 

I do think its time for a new defensive scheme.  The whole league has a lot of experience and data points vs the current Bills defense of 5 seasons or whatever.  They need to change their approach and probably coaching/vision.

 

Also need another WR as well as a slot guy if Shakir or McKenzie arent it.  Its Allen and Diggs vs the other team, with Knox getting open from time to time.

[papazoid]

bills will hold out hope that frazier gets a HC gig and they get the 3rd round comp picks

[SectionC3]

52 minutes ago, foreboding said:

Keep in mind the source of this tweet.

 

All one needs do is listen to his absurd questions and you know he's trying like heck to find a crack to stick his little tongue into, wiggle it around, and see if anything bites.

The source is a guy who is at OBD basically every day.  They hear things.  

[LeGOATski]

15 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Your mind-reading skills are truly underestimated.  

I don't have to, you're putting it on the page. Fix the leaky roof and the furnace. Got it.

 

Don't fire McDermott, just ask him to completely change everything about his football philosophy he's been developing for 20 years.

 

Makes sense.

[extrahammer]

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

The source is a guy who is at OBD basically every day.  They hear things.  

 

Exactly. When fans were bashing him during the season I thought it was them being too emotional and upset someone said anything remotely negative. I think the backlash was more of him teasing it and not really saying more, but still, he has to show up there every day and that could have likely been a problem. I stuck up for Wawrow then and will again, I think he's a great journalist and covers the team well. 

[KingBoots8]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

We get Payton, we win (multiple) Super Bowls with him and Josh Allen.

 

Josh Allen is the most talented player in the NFL at the most coveted position…and he plays for us.

I don’t understand this philosophy. Payton won only one SB with arguably one of the GOATS at QB in Brees. He’s under contract with another team, and trading a premium pick does not help fill the roster. He’s a good coach, maybe even great, but let’s keep some perspective here.

Edited January 23, 2023 by KingBoots8

[Cray51]

20 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Thanks. I’d do this year’s first. I don’t think I’d do two firsts. If it’s this years first and another non-first round pick I’m having that conversation. 

Terrible idea.  We need top end draft capital for the field, not to replace a great head coach with another great one

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

Terrible idea.  We need top end draft capital for the field, not to replace a great head coach with another great one

Replacing McDermott with a much better HC is as terrible as continuing to dump resources into a defense that collapses in the playoffs every season? I guess we have different concepts of what terrible ideas are. And what a great coach is. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by BarleyNY

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

JW: "See, I was right this team is dysfunctional! They never should've re-signed Beasley his vaccination antics really killed team comradery!" 

[SectionC3]

16 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

They extended McD, he's not going anywhere. And that raises the question many of us want to dance around. Is this a guy who can win it all? 13 seconds shook my confidence in him to the core. Incomprehensible decision. If another DC comes in and McD wants the same permanent nickel defense, why change Frazier at all? If he's okay with no run game (take Josh out of the equation) and zero short passing game, then what diff does it make to change out the OC? This iteration of the Bills makes for a good team, wins lots of games, but haphazard and unpredictable and rides on Josh 100%. It's clear this team is not championship caliber. The players, coaches and schemes need a thorough vetting and changes made. This team and their coaches are not good enough. 

 

I agree with this to a point.  I think we’re stale.  Time for a new mind on the offensive side of the ball to challenge everyone.  Make things a little uncomfortable.  I don’t have a huge issue with the D schematically save for the bland nonsense we played yesterday.  But maybe that was due to the fact that one starting corner runs about a 4.9 40, we’re playing a third-string safety, the other safety has a list of injuries took long to print, and our front four—which I note included many snaps from a PS 1-tech—couldn’t get a sniff of Burrow.

 

So, bottom line, the vote here is new coaching and overhaul of the receiver room on the offensive side of the ball, make some tough decisions on personnel on the D side of the ball (adios and many thanks to Poyer, Tre either gets it together or we roll with Elam/Benford next year, whatever happens with Edmunds in FA happens), and we take it from there.  

16 minutes ago, papazoid said:

bills will hold out hope that frazier gets a HC gig and they get the 3rd round comp picks

 

They shouldn’t hold their breaths.  Unless the Texans circle back I don’t see it happening. 

[ExWNYer]

25 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Sean Payton is under contract. What’s the expected compensation? Yes, he’s a much better coach than McD and I’d swap him out today. But that means blowing it all up in the FO too. Again, I’d be okay with that for Payton. I don’t see another available HC that I’d do it for tho. 

 

22 minutes ago, nucci said:

at least one 1st round pick is what I've read

 

On top of the draft pick compensation, Payton reportedly wants $20M - $25M to become someone's HC. Does anyone realistically think that Beane (picks) and the Pegulas (cash) would be willing to ante up that kind of compensation? I don't. It's just a fan pipe dream. I'd be happy with cutting loose Leslie Frazier for starters and going from there.

[SectionC3]

19 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

McDermott is fine IMO

 

 

I do think its time for a new defensive scheme.  The whole league has a lot of experience and data points vs the current Bills defense of 5 seasons or whatever.  They need to change their approach and probably coaching/vision.

 

Also need another WR as well as a slot guy if Shakir or McKenzie arent it.  Its Allen and Diggs vs the other team, with Knox getting open from time to time.

 

McKenzie is not it.  Hence Allen pushing for Beasley mid-year. 

 

The slot guy next year is a share between Diggs and Shakir.  Boom.  Done.  Be creative.  Move people around.  The big need this offseason is a boundary WR who can make a contested catch now and again, unlike one of the current occupants of said position.  

[papazoid]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

 

 

They shouldn’t hold their breaths.  Unless the Texans circle back I don’t see it happening. 

 

i agree with you.....i dont think he gets one

 

but the bills will likely NOT fire him this week until they figure that out

[Bob Jones]

Speaking of Beasley, does he come back next year?

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

McDermott is fine IMO

 

 

I do think its time for a new defensive scheme.  The whole league has a lot of experience and data points vs the current Bills defense of 5 seasons or whatever.  They need to change their approach and probably coaching/vision.

 

Also need another WR as well as a slot guy if Shakir or McKenzie arent it.  Its Allen and Diggs vs the other team, with Knox getting open from time to time.

 

Knox has been open more than "from time to time" his separation numbers are among the best in the league for tight ends, his catch % is the best of his career.... the under usage of Dawson Knox is on Dorsey and Josh. 

[papazoid]

1 minute ago, Bob Jones said:

Speaking of Beasley, does he come back next year?

 

only for the minimum

[Wraith]

4 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

I don’t understand this philosophy. Payton won only one SB with arguably one of the GOATS at QB in Brees. He’s under contract with another team, and trading a premium pick does not help fill the roster. He’s a good coach, maybe even great, but let’s keep some perspective here.

Yeah, that idea is moronic. There is zero evidence Sean Payton is a better coach than McDermott.

 

I don't think McDermott needs to be fired. He does need to adapt and change some of his philosophies but unlike many head coaches he actually has demonstrated he can change in the past and I hope to see that happen again. He did make a few terrible decisions yesterday that I thought he had previously gotten past.

 

Along those same lines, I think it is time to move on from Frazier. He has not shown the same ability to adapt. This season, NFL defenses bucked recent trends and finally started pushing back against high powered offenses - and yet the Bills defense managed to get worse overall and especially in big games.

 

I don't know what to make of Dorsey. Watching the game yesterday I couldn't tell if the defense's terrible start wrecked Dorsey's game plan or if there never was a coherent plan to start with. Of course, the Bengals fast start was entirely predictable, so who knows? I haven't seen it mentioned much but amongst a sea of bad coaching decisions yesterday I thought the worst one was deferring to the second half. The Bengals notoriously start off hot and the Bills offensive game plan was very conservative to start with and that combination meant the Bengals had a 14 point lead before the Bills had run their fourth offensive play. Such a terrible way to start.

[Cray51]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Replacing McDermott with a much better HC is as terrible as continuing to dump resources into a defense that collapses in the playoffs every season? I guess we have different concepts of what terrible ideas are. And what a great coach is. 

In what aspects is McDermott not a very good to great coach?  5 playoff appearances in 6 years, 3 straight division titles, players love him, handles situations professionally, brings in FA talent with Beane, great at utilizing timeouts and challenges (something he has improved drastically over the years).  He is absolutely a top 8 coach in the league.

 

Payton is an unknown outside of his stint with Brees.  Do I think he is also a great coach?  Yes.  But would I trade a first round pick which could be used to bring in a stud young WR or top Guard for him?  Absolutely not.  That is an absolute waste of capital.  We need more talent around Josh, plain and simple.

 

Do I think Frazier needs to go or change scheme?  Yea, thats a conversation worth having.  But to dump McD when he has shown consistency in success (something that a lot of people have taken for granted even though we just had a 25 year playoff win drought) is a terrible idea.  McD has at least another season to show what we can do, and when he is hear next season and we are at the top of the division again, I wont be surprised