Time to go all in on the OL - The grades

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Aside from Josh, we have not selected ANY offensive player in the 1st round since Sammy in 2014. 

Since 2015 in the first two rounds? 

 

OFFENSIVE PLAYERS: 4 (Josh Allen, Zay Jones, Cody Ford, James Cook)
DEFENSIVE PLAYERS: 11

 

 

 

Diggs is essentially a 1st round pick.

 

[thenorthremembers]

Bring in Jack Conklin at RT.  Draft Saffold's replacement early.   Double dip in the draft at guard to bring someone in to compete with Bates.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Billsguy said:

IMO, the game is won or lost in the trenches. Clearly, both OL and DL are not good enough. I would prioritize the OL as the top problem to address. There are several other areas of need, but you have to protect your franchise player first.

 

I think the jury is still out on James Cook, but I have seen enough of Singletary. He has no burst or explosiveness, no speed, no power, and mediocre evasiveness.

I think the jury is still out on Khalil Shakir, but after Diggs the WR corp is not good enough. Gabe Davis was a huge disappointment. The others are journeymen. 

 

Greg Rousseau shows promise, but Epenesa, Basham, and the others are not good enough. The linebackers as a group are not playmakers. Just check out the athleticism and explosiveness of the 49er's linebackers as an example. No comparison. 

 

No point in going on and on, but Beane and McD have built a team incapable of winning the Super Bowl at this point. The four teams left in the playoffs are all superior to the Bills.

 

 

 

 

Politely disagree. I understand the frustration and anger, but it's leading you to be too negative.

 

When DaQuan and Von played, this was a very good DL.

 

Singletary is a good runner, edging on very good. But money will be a major consideration on whether he will be kept. Your evaluation is far far too negative. He has excellent evasiveness, excellent. He is top ten in broken tackles every year for just that reason. He has burst, explosiveness and speed, he wouldn't have averaged 4.6 YPC behind a line that is not among the best in the league if he didn't

 

No, he'll never be a lightning bolt. But he has a lot of runs of over 10 yards, and it's for a reason.

 

Gabe was injured and it clearly affected him. He's good. I'd hoped for more. Hard to say how much the injury

 

Our LBs are really really good, they absolutely are playmakers. This system (and any system, really) requires good DL play in front of them. This system requires a space eater in front of them, a good one. With DaQuan out yesterday, they weren't as good, but that's the way it is with big DTs in front of LBs.

 

Playing well and with fewer defensive injuries, they can play with any team in the league. No question whatsoever, though, that this was not their day. They were not good on the day.

 

As always, they will need a lot of work in the offseason. The problem is that when they brought in Von, they ensured they won't be able to throw around a lot of FA money the next couple of years, and we'll be drafting again the late twenties.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Thurman#1

[John from Riverside]

Come on being for once make a real effort to improve the line in front of Josh Allen and are running backs come on just try it once

[Yantha]

I agree somewhat with the OP.

 

We need interior O-linemen as a good start.  Tackle...  yes.  It will be interesting to see what happens this offseason on that OL.

 

The depth stinks to high heaven on the OL, and our starters are average with Morse arguably the best of the bunch this year.  That's not a compliment.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Outside of Allen, maybe Edmunds, they have failed miserably drafting.  Wasted tons of high draft capital for nothing on defense 

 

 

I get the anger after this game.

 

But that is a wild overreaction. They are the #4 defensive team in DVOA, they're 2nd in points allowed and 6th in yards. They're a damn good defense that suffered a ton of injuries all year and drastically missed Miller and DaQuan and Hyde and a healthy Tre this game. They're a damn good defense.

 

And they have drafted well. Not superbly, but very solidly, especially for a team that has consistently drafted in the 20s.

 

Did they still suck yesterday? Yeah. But that doesn't validate your hot takes here.

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I get the anger after this game.

 

But that is a wild overreaction. They are the #4 defensive team in DVOA, they're 2nd in points allowed and 6th in yards. They're a damn good defense that suffered a ton of injuries all year and drastically missed Miller and DaQuan and Hyde and a healthy Tre this game. They're a damn good defense.

 

And they have drafted well. Not superbly, but very solidly, especially for a team that has consistently drafted in the 20s.

 

Did they still suck yesterday? Yeah. But that doesn't validate your hot takes here.

I will respectively disagree.  

[PBF81]

11 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. 

 

I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF.

 

Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 

 

2022

Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season

 

2021

Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. 

Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's

Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 

 

2020

NONE DRAFTED

 

2019

Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 

 

2018

Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio.

 

Let's review the 2 deep.... 

 

Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle

Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard

Mitch Morris - 24th rated center

Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard

Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard

 

David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle

Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year

Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard

Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury

 

 

WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks.

 

FREE AGENTS

Ben Powers - G - Baltimore 

Isaac Seumalo  - G - Philly

Dalton Risner - G - Denver

Mike McGlinchey - T - SF

Orlando Brown Jr. - T - KC

Kaleb McGary - T - Atlanta

Jawaan Taylor - T - Jax

Kelvin Beachum - T - Arizona

 

One could easily make an argument that this team has no idea how to properly evaluate talent.  

 

Our Free-Agent history isn't so great either, especially early on in their watch.  

[Gunsgoodtime]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

One could easily make an argument that this team has no idea how to properly evaluate talent.  

 

Our Free-Agent history isn't so great either, especially early on in their watch.  

This is the same people that put Nathan Peterman on the field as our starter, and let the only OL draft pick they hit on walk to another team. There is real cause for concern.  On top of what you said, look at how bad they have done in the draft the last 3 years

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

This is the same people that put Nathan Peterman on the field as our starter, and let the only OL draft pick they hit on walk to another team. There is real cause for concern.  On top of what you said, look at how bad they have done in the draft the last 3 years

Well, I've been pointing it out during that time frame, not here, but to friends that are Bills fans.  Unpopular takes at the time.  I for one was on record stating that we should have taken Nakobe Dean instead of  Cook, which to me was a no-brainer.  But no, our FO knew better.  SMH  Dean would have filled an enormous hole and was a beast at Georgia.  

Edited January 24, 2023 by PBF81

[OldTimer1960]

23 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

I kind of felt it coming, so it was nowhere near as bad as last year for me.  The worst part of this year is that I feel like our current administration won't change their defense mentality and continue to use valued resources on defense yet again, resulting in the same thing as long as they are here. Btw, they are not very good at using resources on Defense either.  Almost every one of their picks have not played up to their draft position.  We probably have more draft capital and Fa money on the Dline than any other team since McDermott got here, and the DL is trash

Late 2nd round picks like Epenesa and Basham were are never sure things.  Of course, we can all look in hindsight and see a few players picked later that have been better.  Epenesa had 6.5 sacks in part time and Basham has played a fair bit.  Are they great starters?  No, I admit that, but they aren’t complete busts either.  
 

there have been a few receivers they passed on that I’m sure they regret, but a lot of bad ones have been picked in rounds 2&3 also.