The disappointing pass rush

[TampaBillsJunkie]

11 hours ago, LifeLongBillsFan said:

I loved Wade as our DC!! 

I liked Schwartz too.

[Solomon Grundy]

15 hours ago, B-Large said:

 

What is Wade Phillips up to these days?  I'd love to see a creative, vicious Defense here.... 

Or any of his disciples

15 hours ago, somnus00 said:

Jerry Hughes had his best year since 2014 (9 sacks this year, 10 in 2014).

Think he would've been a better option than Epenesa/Basham? 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, TampaBillsJunkie said:

I liked Schwartz too.

Wade got fired way too early

21 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Or any of his disciples

Think he would've been a better option than Epenesa/Basham? 

I do I’d really like to get them back on this team to pair with Von Miller

[somnus00]

2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Think he would've been a better option than Epenesa/Basham? 

I'm not saying that necessarily, but who knows.

 

I was using his stats to illustrate that we may have a coaching/scheme problem. He was never that productive under McD and Frazier.

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Seems to me the Bengals and 49ers have good running games and defenses. 49ers defense is best in the league.  They traded for a RB in mid season.  Eagles defense is stout too as was the Rams last year. Held Joe Burrow and company to 20 in the SB iirc.

As stated, good to have but not necessary.

 

They have two of the best passing games in the league right now.

[B-Large]

8 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Or any of his disciples

Think he would've been a better option than Epenesa/Basham? 

 

whose come off his lineage that is available?  HIs defense always gave up and easy TD them puckered up like a snare drum... Vons best year we're with him, IMO...

[Big Blitz]

I feel like Beane is talking about Groot and Oliver right now regarding guys that played well early in the year but looked different at the end.  

[TheBrownBear]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:38 AM, Success said:

Yesterday was a real eye-opener - but we've seen it ever since Miller went down.  The Bengals were missing 3 out of 5 starting O-linemen, and our pass rush was still anemic.

 

They were saying in the post-game how outside of Miller, we don't have 1 guy in the top 40.

 

And we've also seen that many SB champs have this as a strength.  Think of the Bucs line from 2 years ago, or the Rams last year.  Multiple players who are good or great at getting to the passer.

 

How do the Bills fix this?  It feels like they have made every investment they can make - high draft picks, getting the best pass rusher in FA.  It's a glaring weakness.

 

I've defended Oliver and I think he may have been playing hurt on Sunday, but his production just hasn't paid off the investment of where we drafted him.  He was supposed to develop into a real disruptor and we just haven't seen that from him over the years, at least not consistently.  I think that's the biggest weakness right there.  Most of these great pass rush teams have guys in the middle who can really disrupt and wreck things.  We are sorely lacking that.  Outside of Minnesota, all of the teams who gave us trouble this season had dudes who were really capable of collapsing the middle of the pocket.

[BobbyC81]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:46 AM, bills6969 said:

The pass rush is the single weakest link on this team.  Without Miller,  it’s downright bad. Oliver, Boogie, Rousseau and Epenesa have been disappointing.  Rousseau has shown flashes so I’m not totally giving up on him yet.  The others, especially Oliver with his cap hit,  are deadweight.

It’s simple math.  Rush 4 vs 5 blockers, plus, RBs and TEs chipping before going out.  Unless you have a Bruce Smith, Nick Bosa, JJ Watt, who can consistently win one-on-one battles and even double teams.  Otherwise you need well planned blitzes.  Milano gets thru now and then but it seems like when Edmunds does, he gets lost in the blocking.  I’d have to say the most effective blitzes in the last few years have been by Taron Johnson from the slot.

 

So, I don’t know that Von Miller was really the unstoppable force for the Bills this season or if he will be going forward.  That leaves the 4 vs 5 that hasn’t been very effective.

[Pirate Angel]

On 1/23/2023 at 8:37 PM, ßookie_tech said:

I like the idea of drafting DL early and often. I just don't like the players.. or even understand the scouting. The jury is still out on GR. I think he can still be a star, but he still was an ambiguous college DE. But they draft AJE and have him change his physique and technique. And Basham was just a wasted pick imo. There is nothing about his play at WFU that suggested he had any potential to be an impact player in the NFL. I think they place too much emphasis on the character and work ethic (which are also important to a degree), but then you get stuck with "high motor" guys that don't have the dynamic ability to matchup. 

Exactly, Basham was a relentless player that never quit on a play in college but he wasnt a player that blew up a backfield and change the momentum of a game. 

[Nelius]

It's the worst part about our situation in my opinion, considering the amount invested. Sometimes you forget that Epenesa and Basham were 2nd round picks. Whether it's their talent or the coaching, they still feel like project players trying to find their way.

 

I still have hope for Groot, and have been huge fans of Oliver and Epenesa the few times they've done things, but it's a mess. Four early round draft picks and not a single one is doing anything. We're happy when they make any kind of impact and put up an average stat line. I don't know how you keep Oliver and Epenesa at this point. Epenesa's got journey man written all over him and will probably play for the Houston Texans at least once, it sucks to say.

[ChrisWatson#21]

On 1/23/2023 at 3:31 PM, nosejob said:

The pass rush is bad because of being stubborn and only rushing fo. It's the philosophy that sucks as well as the lack of adaptation. Frazier is stubborn and stale.

It's simple math. 4 against 6 and a back. Put Shaq or Boogie inside once in a while. Have the ends stunt inside the Guards.

 

Blitz your LBs....not named Edmunds.

It ain't rocket science. Rushing 4 while playing a stupid soft zone and expecting pressure is idiotic.

 

Not to mention soft zone cancels out playing nickel cause it stops nothing and begs the other team to run on us. I'm so sick of Frazier's defense. We are going nowhere as long as he is here. He couldn't get a joint fired up. Looked like a lifeless smurf yesterday.

Their 4-2-5 isn't god enough if you don't have pure edge rushers.  Time to put a third linebacker out there to help out.

[billsbackto81]

On 1/23/2023 at 12:50 PM, whorlnut said:

Definitely disappointing but I still blame coaching. These guys didn’t just forget how to play football. They are put into bad situations. Just like last year we all thought a first round corner would help avoid another 13 second disaster. Well…no one wanted to put the blame on the coaches that rushed 3 and kept the corners off the ball. It was coaching, not personnel. 
 

I agree that the personnel on offense needs upgraded, but I equally think that a new DC and scheme could make the guys we already have on d more than serviceable. 

On point. Couldn't agree more with this assessment.

[GreggTX]

I was happy when we drafted Oliver. Today I want to trade him.

 

[BBills_88]

7 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

I was happy when we drafted Oliver. Today I want to trade him.

 

I wanted Jeffery Simmons that draft

The DLINE short comings, is this a Eric Washington issue or Talent issue?

Edited January 25, 2023 by BBills_88

[colin]

cover 1 had a podcast that came out yesterday that i watched today (on youtube, can't link it from this machine).

 

anyhow, they broke down how the coverage checks are too multiple and complicated (even said it was like rex's old D) but the upfront calls are too basic and simple during the playoffs.  this is why they would clear out the box and run at our nickle back, and why they picked up all the pass rushers.  we simply had no schematic solution.

 

our talent was thin too, obv, and we've missed horribly on too many draft picks, but the fact taht daquan jones being out was such a fall off shows me that there are simple solutions, jones wasn't some rare find or super expensive guy, he's just a quality DT who gets mucky.