The disappointing pass rush

[Eastport bills]

What pass rush? If Shaq wasn’t pushed into Burrow’s ankles, I don’t think the D-line touched him all game. Frazier was clueless with his scheme and coverages and made no adjustments. The sad part is that our players looked soft and resolved to getting dominated after the Bengals went right down the field on their first 2 possessions. This is on our coaching staff and personnel department. Please don’t blame any of this on the obstacles we faced. If we do that, we’re destined to repeat devastating looses like the massacre Sunday.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, B-Large said:

 

he said 9 months, that puts him at August, around training camp.

 

IMHO, Von was a luxury primarily acquired to make those 8-10 plays in the playoffs that change a game in your favor.   at 34 old body coming off multiple ACL's injuries, I think his role will be the same.  He will play all season, but they will keep him on a snap count more so.  I'd be worried if we think a 34 year old Von is going to invigorate that pass rush next year, week in and week out.  

 

He was missed, but I don't think this team was prepared to make a run at anything this offseason.... lucky we played a 3rd sting QB at home to win one game.

 

 

I’ll be shocked if he’s back week 1 and even more surprised if he’s back to form. In any event, the Bills would be foolish to count on it happening this March and April when they’re adding players to the roster. 

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Definitely disappointing but I still blame coaching. These guys didn’t just forget how to play football. They are put into bad situations. Just like last year we all thought a first round corner would help avoid another 13 second disaster. Well…no one wanted to put the blame on the coaches that rushed 3 and kept the corners off the ball. It was coaching, not personnel. 
 

I agree that the personnel on offense needs upgraded, but I equally think that a new DC and scheme could make the guys we already have on d more than serviceable. 

AJ is terrible.  Basham is a jag.  Lawson is a jag.  Rousseau looked special to me most of the season then hit a wall.  Maybe he was just benefiting from rushing opposite Von.  
 

We had very little talent rushing the passer yesterday.  Jones and Ed were our chance, but jones being out ruined our chances to win up front.  
 

Do you think AJ, Basham and Lawson would be excelling for other teams?  We already saw what Shaq was outside of Buffalo.  He’s only had success here.  
 

Beane failed by drafting those 2 bums in rd 2.  

[Gunsgoodtime]

3 hours ago, Success said:

Yesterday was a real eye-opener - but we've seen it ever since Miller went down.  The Bengals were missing 3 out of 5 starting O-linemen, and our pass rush was still anemic.

 

They were saying in the post-game how outside of Miller, we don't have 1 guy in the top 40.

 

And we've also seen that many SB champs have this as a strength.  Think of the Bucs line from 2 years ago, or the Rams last year.  Multiple players who are good or great at getting to the passer.

 

How do the Bills fix this?  It feels like they have made every investment they can make - high draft picks, getting the best pass rusher in FA.  It's a glaring weakness.

 

4 1st rounders and 3 second rounders just ain't enough.  Got to go DL with the 1st and 2nd this year.  You know when you are bad at something you have to keep practicing 

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

AJ is terrible.  Basham is a jag.  Lawson is a jag.  Rousseau looked special to me most of the season then hit a wall.  Maybe he was just benefiting from rushing opposite Von.  
 

We had very little talent rushing the passer yesterday.  Jones and Ed were our chance, but jones being out ruined our chances to win up front.  
 

Do you think AJ, Basham and Lawson would be excelling for other teams?  We already saw what Shaq was outside of Buffalo.  He’s only had success here.  
 

Beane failed by drafting those 2 bums in rd 2.  

I don’t disagree. Epenesa and Basham are not good and we’re misses. But I can’t fathom a scenario where Beane gives it another go and drafts DE again unless it’s the last couple rounds. 

Just now, Gunsgoodtime said:

4 1st rounders and 3 second rounders just ain't enough.  Got to go DL with the 1st and 2nd this year.  You know when you are bad at something you have to keep practicing 

Please tell me you are joking…

[Gunsgoodtime]

Just now, whorlnut said:

I don’t disagree. Epenesa and Basham are not good and we’re misses. But I can’t fathom a scenario where Beane gives it another go and drafts DE again unless it’s the last couple rounds. 

Please tell me you are joking…

Yes, I was joking lol.  More so pointing out the awful drafting this team has done the last few years

[LifeLongBillsFan]

1 hour ago, B-Large said:

 

Von Miller has been here before, with the Broncos.  in 2015 without a Star Wars offense anymore, the Defense he was on was vicious and dragged that team to a ring. 

 

What is Wade Phillips up to these days?  I'd love to see a creative, vicious Defense here.... 

 

 

LOL.... that's gonna be a thing for a LONG time now.... 

I loved Wade as our DC!! 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

The disappointing pass rush is all about poor drafting. No impact players, yet. Rousseau has a chance.

 

I will say this though, we shouldn’t be surprised. My number 1 need in the offseason was a pass rusher that was a difference maker. They went out and got that guy but he tore his ACL. So what we were left with was a failed pass rush without Jerry Hughes and Mario Addison. We can’t really blame the DC for that. Those players can’t do what we needed.

 

Losing Von Miller was a gigantic loss. I wish they somehow found a way to keep Jerry Hughes and also acquire Von Miller. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Gunsgoodtime]

26 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Since McDermott became HC, the Bills had seven 1st round picks and five of those were used on defense. On the D-line alone, two 1st round picks [Oliver, Rousseau] and two 2nd round picks [Epeneza, Basham] were used and they all failed to make an impact yesterday. I know Miller, Jones and Hyde were out, but with the amount of high round picks used on the D-line, those guys should have made an impact and they couldn’t do 💩 against a Bengals O-line missing three starters.

Its really sad when you think about it, we had to over pay an aging Von Miller to generate a pass rush with all those draft picks used.  Huge failure.  On top of that it has cost the Offense very needed resources

[NewEra]

24 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I don’t disagree. Epenesa and Basham are not good and we’re misses. But I can’t fathom a scenario where Beane gives it another go and drafts DE again unless it’s the last couple rounds. 

Please tell me you are joking…

He should be drafting another DE in the first 5 rounds.  Maybe not one or two…..but if a top DE slips, maybe.  
 

bottom line- while Beane has wasted some big time picks on some bum DEs, the need to get pressure on the QB will always exist. Or do we surrender and just give in to having a crappy pass rush? 
 

am I joking about what?  That our pass rush was crap?  That our pass rushers were crap?  What did I say in the last post that was 💯 true?

[nosejob]

I am so sick of hearing about the drafting on the Dline! Just stop with that crap. You could have Moses and 3 disciples on the line....with guns...and as long as they're facing 5 Oline guys, a TE and a back and you're CBs are playing 10 yards off the line WTF do you expect? I am really pulling my hair our with this B.S,,,,and I only have a couple left....and they're coming out of my ears. OMG. Until we have a new defensive leader, nothing will change. If you wanna say this is all McD's idea, then bend him over and let him take it like a man cause this team grabbed their ankles from start to finish on defense yesterday.

 

edit: except for Milano....I feel for you dude. Please don't leave us. You deserve a GOFUNDME for a year's worth of steak and lobster

Edited January 23, 2023 by nosejob

[Billsfan1972]

Again I blame it solely on the coaching. See below

 

From The Ringer

 

On Sunday, the Bengals had to start three backups who essentially hadn’t played all season: at right tackle, Hakeem Adeniji, the player whose performance at right guard in last year’s Super Bowl probably did more than anyone’s to win the Rams a title; at left tackle, Jackson Carman, the player who was benched at right guard last year to allow Adeniji to fall apart in the postseason; and at right guard, Max Scharping, who was cut during the preseason by the 3-13-1 Texans because he couldn’t find a role on their offensive line. None of these three players had meaningful roles with the Bengals through the first four months of the regular season, and their average Pro Football Focus grade was 48.7 (out of 100). They should have been toast against the Bills.

 

Instead, Cincinnati’s makeshift line dominated against the Bills. Burrow was sacked only once, for a loss of 2 yards. The Bengals ran for 172 yards—more than in 16 of their 17 previous games this season—with Joe Mixon having his second 100-yard game of the season. Look at the massive hole opened up for Mixon on this run, ending with Bills linebacker Tremaine Edmunds getting dumped into the snowy sideline.

 

I don’t quite understand how this happened. There’s no evidence in the careers of Adeniji, Carman, or Scharping to suggest any one of them could be competent NFL players—let alone all three of them at the same time—and we’d seen how disastrous poor line play could be to this exact Bengals team.

[Playoffs?]

4 hours ago, bills6969 said:

The pass rush is the single weakest link on this team.  Without Miller,  it’s downright bad. Oliver, Boogie, Rousseau and Epenesa have been disappointing.  Rousseau has shown flashes so I’m not totally giving up on him yet.  The others, especially Oliver with his cap hit,  are deadweight.

Our pass rush sucked without Von. No one stepped up. 
 

But I’d argue that our crap offensive line along with the failure of Dorsey to scheme around it was an even bigger weakness.  If Josh was less mobile, he never would’ve made it through the season. Time for Josh to demand improvements. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

42 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again I blame it solely on the coaching. See below

 

From The Ringer

 

On Sunday, the Bengals had to start three backups who essentially hadn’t played all season: at right tackle, Hakeem Adeniji, the player whose performance at right guard in last year’s Super Bowl probably did more than anyone’s to win the Rams a title; at left tackle, Jackson Carman, the player who was benched at right guard last year to allow Adeniji to fall apart in the postseason; and at right guard, Max Scharping, who was cut during the preseason by the 3-13-1 Texans because he couldn’t find a role on their offensive line. None of these three players had meaningful roles with the Bengals through the first four months of the regular season, and their average Pro Football Focus grade was 48.7 (out of 100). They should have been toast against the Bills.

 

Instead, Cincinnati’s makeshift line dominated against the Bills. Burrow was sacked only once, for a loss of 2 yards. The Bengals ran for 172 yards—more than in 16 of their 17 previous games this season—with Joe Mixon having his second 100-yard game of the season. Look at the massive hole opened up for Mixon on this run, ending with Bills linebacker Tremaine Edmunds getting dumped into the snowy sideline.

 

I don’t quite understand how this happened. There’s no evidence in the careers of Adeniji, Carman, or Scharping to suggest any one of them could be competent NFL players—let alone all three of them at the same time—and we’d seen how disastrous poor line play could be to this exact Bengals team.

Against a Dline loaded with 1st and 2nd rounders

[DuckyBoys]

Mcdermott is running the wrong type of defense  Once they got Josh up to speed in 2021 they should have switched to a attacking defense  Instead we have the slow death by a thousand cuts approach of defense  We should be taking shots to knock teams out not sitting around in soft zone all day praying for a errant pass

[TD716]

Keep Jones, Rosseau, Miller, resign Lawson. Platoon doesn’t work. Every time the Combo of Settle, Basham, Epenesa and Phillips came in there was a noticeable drop off. Resigning MLB Edmonds is a must. White has to take a pay cut or be cut.

[IndyMark]

26 minutes ago, TD716 said:

Keep Jones, Rosseau, Miller, resign Lawson. Platoon doesn’t work. Every time the Combo of Settle, Basham, Epenesa and Phillips came in there was a noticeable drop off. Resigning MLB Edmonds is a must. White has to take a pay cut or be cut.

Agree for the most part, I like the core you identify for us to keep.  Though I question if Miller will really be ready when he says.  It likely will be an October / November return at best.  Easy to say 9 months now, so far out. See Tre' White for details.

 

Lots of work to do, however.  I am afraid McD's or Beane's loyalty to their own is giving them blinkered vision.  I feel DaQuan was our DL mvp this year.  Groot will be fine and Lawson was a pleasant surprise but beyond that we need to commit to genuine competition in camp. Put a premium on playing time.  Ankou and Jonathan proved they have potential and each severely outplayed Oliver and Philips yesterday....OIiver registered 1 asst and 0 tackles...yikes!  From a top 10 pick. That hurts.

 

But, I would not look at the draft until later rounds, I would sign players to reserve / futures by the barrel full and then look to free agency first.  Regardless I feel we are looking at about a 50% turnover on the DL next year (keeping Jones, Rousseau, Lawson with Ankou and Jonathan hanging around).  Everyone else? Good luck.

 

[Mopreme]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

Hard to generate pass rush when the QB gets rid of the ball to elite playmakers in 2.5 seconds and you play off coverage most of the game.

 

Regardless, the DL is a problem.

 

Von Miller, Greg Rousseau and Daquan Jones are the only guys worth keeping. 

 

Get Oliver and his cap hit off this team.  He, in no way, should be in the plans moving forward so trade him while we can. 

Shaq Lawson played well enough to stay. 

3 hours ago, LifeLongBillsFan said:

I loved Wade as our DC!! 

And Jim Schwartz, his defensive schemes were great. 

[TN Bills Fan]

Rousseau getting killed against the run and has seen pleanty of bench time with Basham filling in.  May be a pass rusing specialist.  Ed Oliver too small and is invisisble most weeks.  Jorday Phillips played 8 games this year so who cares if he can play or not.  D'Quan Jones consistenly excellent.  Shaq a quality backup.  Epenesa racks up a few sacks in obvious passing downs otherwise garbage.  Line needs more beef inside and for Von to play a whole season if that can happen.  What happened to Von Miller's sideline presence making a big difference?  

[Bookie Man]

I like the idea of drafting DL early and often. I just don't like the players.. or even understand the scouting. The jury is still out on GR. I think he can still be a star, but he still was an ambiguous college DE. But they draft AJE and have him change his physique and technique. And Basham was just a wasted pick imo. There is nothing about his play at WFU that suggested he had any potential to be an impact player in the NFL. I think they place too much emphasis on the character and work ethic (which are also important to a degree), but then you get stuck with "high motor" guys that don't have the dynamic ability to matchup.