Elephant in the Room

[Back2Buff]

4 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

This is just stupid.  Come on, man.

 

First things first had a graphic that displayed this.  Will try to find.

[somnus00]

The giraffe in the room is that Beane needs to look at more help in the draft war room. Maybe a new director of college scouting. This team is just not getting consistent production out of the first 2 rounds. Finding some late round gems is great. But you have to hit, more often then not, in rounds 1 and 2.

 

Boogie, Epenesa, and Ford are huge whiffs. Oliver is not living up to his draft status.

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

The elephant in the room is that Allen has been bottom tier the second half of the season and is getting paid elite money.

 

Will the guy put in the necessary work in offseason to understand defensive schemes and to throw with anticipation?  Or will he spend all offseason traveling and playing golf and just play back yard ball every year?

 

As soon as defenses pick up on what Allen does in a season, he doesn't adapt.  I question if he is smart enough to think as quick as the top guys do.

He definetly regressed some this year.  In his defense, he had a new OC learning on the job, a poor OL, had an injuried elbow, and lacked weapons. So it's pretty to see why he wasn't at his best. Allen is the least of the Bills problems.

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, Chas56 said:

I’ve been a fan for quite a while. During the early 90’s Super Bowl runs there was a certain percentage of fans that wanted Frank to start over Kelly. It’s nuts, but haters gotta hate.

I remember that too. Bills fans are hilarious.

[BB2004]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

0 sense signing Edmunds and Poyer back.

 

Use that money and invest it in the O line and WRs.

 

Any chance we put the franchise tag on one of these players?

[Back2Buff]

Allen since week 6

 

Josh Allen since beating KC in Wk 6 (w/ NFL rank):

Rank Pass Rtg: 85.5 | 26th

Turnovers: 12 | Most

Comp %: 60.6 | 30th

Yds/Pass: 6.9 | 21st

Pass YPG: 227.7 | 12th

Pass TD: 15 | t-8th

Edited January 23, 2023 by Back2Buff

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, BB2004 said:

 

Any chance we put the franchise tag on one of these players?

Edmunds definitely not as it would be over 20 mil as guys like TJ watt Jack up the price as they are listed as “linebackers”.

 

Poyer, maybe but I doubt it.

 

I think if a deal gets done with Poyer, they will have to make it a “phoney” 2 year deal where they push money away from the cap this year.

[Gunsgoodtime]

16 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

The giraffe in the room is that Beane needs to look at more help in the draft war room. Maybe a new director of college scouting. This team is just not getting consistent production out of the first 2 rounds. Finding some late round gems is great. But you have to hit, more often then not, in rounds 1 and 2.

 

Boogie, Epenesa, and Ford are huge whiffs. Oliver is not living up to his draft status.

Who is?  Honestly looking back, outside of Allen, they have been terrible drafting.  More draft picks and money spent on that Dline than any other team since McDermott got here, and they still had to overpay for a aging Von Miller to cover uo for their draft failures.  Unfortunately he got hurt, and the light was on for all of us to witness. Those failures also move on to the offense, because you used all the draft capital on Defense 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Gunsgoodtime

[somnus00]

4 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Who is?  Honestly looking back, outside of Allen, they have been terrible drafting.  More draft picks and money spent on that Dline than any other team since McDermott got here, and they still had to overpay for a aging Von Miller to cover uo for their draft failures.  Unfortunately he got hurt, and the light was on for all of us to witness.

Absolutely fair point. Another problem I have is that I wonder how much of this is on coaching. Jerry Hughes leaves to Houston and has his best season in 8 years. He had 9 sacks this year. Right now we have 4 first rounders and 3 second rounders on our d-line. Are they really just bad players, or is Eric Washington a terrible coach (or is it Frazier's scheme)?

 

Same with Edmunds. I wonder if he would've been a star on the 49er or Ravens. Physically he's a unicorn. Is Frazier's defense (innovative for the 90s) holding back his production? This doubt just compounds our crappy situation. How do you fix a problem if you're unsure about what the problem really is?

[cle23]

3 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 You try and secure a deal, in principle, before the tag deadline comes and goes? If not don't tag him. Just would suck to let him leave with nothing to show for it after spending a 1st rounder & the 1st pick of the 3rd to trade for him.

 

 

 

In that scenario, you have very little leverage because he will command a huge salary and draft picks to get.  Teams know Buffalo can't pay him $20+ million a year, so they really can't risk him being on the tag.  He's not top tier elite where people are willing to drop money and picks.

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 minute ago, somnus00 said:

Absolutely fair point. Another problem I have is that I wonder how much of this is on coaching. Jerry Hughes leaves to Houston and has his best season in 8 years. He had 9 sacks this year. Right now we have 4 first rounders and 3 second rounders on our d-line. Are they really just bad players, or is Eric Washington a terrible coach (or is it Frazier's scheme)?

 

Same with Edmunds. I wonder if he would've been a star on the 49er or Ravens. Physically he's a unicorn. Is Frazier's defense (innovative for the 90s) holding back his production? This doubt just compounds our crappy situation. How do you fix a problem if you're unsure about what the problem really is?

4 1st rounders and 3 2nds on the dline 🤣   I wish you had not replied, i knew it was bad, but wow! Just goes to show how bad at drafting they really have been.  I think Tremaine will be good wherever he goes.  I have a different opinion of him than most on here

[BarleyNY]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I'd be ALL IN FAVOR of somehow getting rid of Von Miller and his salary, if that's at all possible.

 

He was the fitting of the "last piece" to win a championship.  And that didn't happen.

We are now in retool mode, and need to build up again.

 

Von is not the sort of player this team needs, NOW.

 

 

 

 

The Bills are completely screwed with Von Miller’s injury. Even healthy he would be painful to trade ($14.8M dead cap) and impossible to cut ($40.2M dead cap). Cap consequences aside we can’t cut an injured player without an agreed upon settlement - and that’s not happening.

 

No team would even consider trading for a player with Von Miller’s injury and massive contract until that player shows he’s back to form. He will likely get back on the field at some point next season (see White, Tre), but he won’t be back to form until some time after that - if ever. And at his age the “if ever” is a very real possibility. He’ll be 34 this off-season. The Bills are going to take this one hard, right in the shorts. There’s your elephant in the room.

 

Edited to add: Contract details here, see for yourself.

Edited January 23, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Gunsgoodtime]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

The Bills are screwed with Von Miller’s injury. Even healthy he would be painful to trade ($14.8M dead cap) and impossible to cut ($40.2M dead cap). Cap consequences aside we can’t cut an injured without an agreed upon settlement - and that’s not happening.

 

No team would even consider trading for a player with Von Miller’s injury and massive contract until that player shows he’s back to form. He will likely get back on the field at some point next season (see White, Tre), but he won’t be back to form until some time after that - if ever. And at his age the “if ever” is a very real possibility. The Bills are going to take this one hard, right in the shorts.

Hated the contract when we did it, Hate it even worse now!  When you have multiple 1st, 2nd rounders on your line and you still have to go out and overpay an aging Von Miller to get a pass rush, you suck at drafting 

[BarleyNY]

Just now, Gunsgoodtime said:

Hated the contract when we did it, Hate it even worse now!  When you have multiple 1st, 2nd rounders on your line and you still have to go out and overpay an aging Von Miller to get a pass rush, you suck at drafting 

I actually loved the signing. He was exactly the player the Bills defense needed. The team went all in and it didn’t work out. It happens. But I’m with you on hating that we had to go out and find an aging FA to give that contract to because we couldn’t draft well enough. So many resources poured into the DL with so little to show for it. 

[RocCityRoller]

36 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Who is?  Honestly looking back, outside of Allen, they have been terrible drafting.  More draft picks and money spent on that Dline than any other team since McDermott got here, and they still had to overpay for a aging Von Miller to cover uo for their draft failures.  Unfortunately he got hurt, and the light was on for all of us to witness. Those failures also move on to the offense, because you used all the draft capital on Defense 

 

FA spending too Daquan Jones (lived up to contract IMO), Von Miller, Tim Settle

 

Meanwhile the offense gets Saffold, Quessenberry and Hart....

[BearNorth]

SPOTRAC says Edmunds should be getting around $11MM AAV for a four year deal.  They say he is the most valuable 2023 FA available at ILB. Pretty thin group for sure.

[3rdand12]

Horton hears a Who ?

[PatsFanNH]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:05 AM, Back2Buff said:

The elephant in the room is that Allen has been bottom tier the second half of the season and is getting paid elite money.

 

Will the guy put in the necessary work in offseason to understand defensive schemes and to throw with anticipation?  Or will he spend all offseason traveling and playing golf and just play back yard ball every year?

 

As soon as defenses pick up on what Allen does in a season, he doesn't adapt.  I question if he is smart enough to think as quick as the top guys do.

Umm correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Allen having an MVP like season up until he hurt his elbow(again)?  Sounds more like you need him to stay injury free more than anything. 

[BobbyC81]

It’ll be interesting to see what the cap situation is when finalized.

 

Pro Football Focus projects the Bills to be $8M over the cap.  Sportac says $16M.   I’m sure they’ll try to restructure Allen’s deal by converting salary to signing bonus.  Might as well take advantage before the NFL closes that loophole.

[Jim]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:55 PM, iccrewman112 said:

Im very much in agreement with all points on this. Not sure how a tag and trade works. All special teamers on non-minimum contracts need to be released as well (other than long snapper)

 

O absolutely yes for sure. I think I said this to my brother during the Cincinnati game, but for *****'s sake do we really truly have a major need for Tyler Matakevich, Taiwan Jones and Jake Kumerow? I mean, give me a break. I know the staff feels that they are special teams marvels, but the funny thing is, I saw a handful of noticeable mistakes by Jones this year which is unacceptable for a guy who is only a special teamer and not a positional player (don't give me the RB garbage). Also, the only time I noticed Matakevich is when he's running off the field. I'm sure they're lovely guys, but they gotta go. If our coaching staff is as great as everybody says it is, then make it work with players who actually have a chance to make plays elsewhere as well, if needed. Just my opinion.