philosophical failure

[beebe]

the 2022 season was always about securing the 1 seed for the bills. the chiefs got worse in the offseason (or so we thought) while their afc west rivals got way better (or so we thought). the bills schedule looked easy. the chiefs schedule looked brutal. the bills wanted to be great from the get-go. most teams do. they had the rams and the tough part of their schedule in september into october, with the measuring stick game vs the chiefs, which many thought could decide who gets the 1 seed. buffalo started great and then beat the chiefs, 5-1 overall, with three truly dominant wins vs rams, titans and steelers. this was also when the bills peaked. we didn't really see many unexpected breakout players emerge the rest of the year outside of elam and perhaps a few others. 

 

the chiefs, similar to most teams, wanted to start the season great. but from the very beginning, you could see that it was more important for the chiefs to be great by the end of the season. they always thought they could be. so they started the year playing almost entirely rookies on defense. their secondary featured 1st rounder mcduffie (cb), 2nd rounder cook (safety), 4th rounder williams (cb) and 7th rounder watson (cb). these guys all got significant playing time. their second 1st rd draft pick karlaftis (de) also got significant snaps on defense, as did leo chenal (lb) the 4th rounder. so the chiefs went to war with six 2022 draft picks on defense from the very beginning. they took their lumps early. the chiefs D was scaring nobody. but the chiefs were content relying on mahomes' brilliance to squeak out wins while the D got their reps. andy would often say after games, including losses how "this made us better" or "we'll be better for this down the road." he said it after the chiefs lost to the bills. with andy, it's always "down the road." with wr skyy moore (another rookie), the chiefs slowly found a way to work him into a role he could handle. with rb pacheco (another rookie), they started him as a backup then named him a starter by late october once he showed what he could do. after they traded for wr toney, the chiefs slowly ramped up his snap counts and he just had a season high touches vs the jags. rb mckinnon, they knew he was a threat all along, but they unlocked something special with him as a red zone threat in november and december. anyway, the chiefs have been a flawed team all season long and were undoubtedly a worse regular season team than the bills. but i think the chiefs were constantly using the regular season to sort out their flaws, max out their strengths, bring new players along, and try to be the best version of themselves when it matters most.

 

did the bills do this? which players got better? what leaks were plugged? which strengths were identified? we all saw shakir come out smoking in the preseason and thought he could play a big role. he finished the regular season with 10 catches. mckenzie returned (somewhat unexpectedly) this year and was targeted more, but he didn't perform to expectations and became a non factor down the stretch and into the playoffs. the lack of development with pass catchers led to them bringing back cole beasley and john brown! james cook, drafted to possibly be the eventual answer at rb - and hopefully a big threat in the pass game - got about 12 non garbage time carries all year before the browns game, and he was targeted 1 time or fewer as a pass catcher in 11 of the bills' 18 games. the bills relied on the run game a few times late season, but you never really felt like it was something they trusted. did anyone see a backup OL emerge as a viable long-term option? again, who got better?

 

on defense, the bills opted to shore up an already veteran roster with more veterans. but hyde went out. von went out. tre white didn't look like himself. poyer didn't play to his standard. who stepped up? who got better? you could argue elam. edmunds got better. but who else? the pass rushers? i'd say no. 

 

schematically, did the offense or defense evolve? did the play calling improve? new packages, new wrinkles, changes in strategy, anything? this to me is the biggest difference between how the bills and chiefs are run. the chiefs entered the year in a clear rebuild-on-the-fly and rebuilt it on the fly. trust, patience, development, bigger picture. in doing so, they gave eight rookies big roles and added tyreek's future replacement via trade w toney. the bills entered the year in win-now mode, came up short, identified two or three new players (at most) who will be part of their long-term future and will now have to say goodbye to a handful of the veterans who couldn't help them win anything of significance. 

[Franco_92]

The chiefs schedule looked brutal and then they wound up with the biggest cupcake I've ever seen. They didn't have any weather games, got the rams 3rd string qb and no kupp, had a "hard division" become a complete joke instantly, and played just 3 good teams, losing 2 of them. Catching san Fran before they got hot, playing titans after their win streak and tannehills injury etc.

[nosejob]

I can't understand why this is so hard? If I were Dorsey, I would tell Josh....Look we're gonna practice hitting cook in the flat, Beasley on the screen and DIggs on quick outs. The ball must be gone by 2! We're gonna run these 90 times a week in practice until it's mastered!

[Nextmanup]

10 minutes ago, beebe said:

the 2022 season was always about securing the 1 seed for the bills. the chiefs got worse in the offseason (or so we thought) while their afc west rivals got way better (or so we thought). the bills schedule looked easy. the chiefs schedule looked brutal. the bills wanted to be great from the get-go. most teams do. they had the rams and the tough part of their schedule in september into october, with the measuring stick game vs the chiefs, which many thought could decide who gets the 1 seed. buffalo started great and then beat the chiefs, 5-1 overall, with three truly dominant wins vs rams, titans and steelers. this was also when the bills peaked. we didn't really see many unexpected breakout players emerge the rest of the year outside of elam and perhaps a few others. 

 

the chiefs, similar to most teams, wanted to start the season great. but from the very beginning, you could see that it was more important for the chiefs to be great by the end of the season. they always thought they could be. so they started the year playing almost entirely rookies on defense. their secondary featured 1st rounder mcduffie (cb), 2nd rounder cook (safety), 4th rounder williams (cb) and 7th rounder watson (cb). these guys all got significant playing time. their second 1st rd draft pick karlaftis (de) also got significant snaps on defense, as did leo chenal (lb) the 4th rounder. so the chiefs went to war with six 2022 draft picks on defense from the very beginning. they took their lumps early. the chiefs D was scaring nobody. but the chiefs were content relying on mahomes' brilliance to squeak out wins while the D got their reps. andy would often say after games, including losses how "this made us better" or "we'll be better for this down the road." he said it after the chiefs lost to the bills. with andy, it's always "down the road." with wr skyy moore (another rookie), the chiefs slowly found a way to work him into a role he could handle. with rb pacheco (another rookie), they started him as a backup then named him a starter by late october once he showed what he could do. after they traded for wr toney, the chiefs slowly ramped up his snap counts and he just had a season high touches vs the jags. rb mckinnon, they knew he was a threat all along, but they unlocked something special with him as a red zone threat in november and december. anyway, the chiefs have been a flawed team all season long and were undoubtedly a worse regular season team than the bills. but i think the chiefs were constantly using the regular season to sort out their flaws, max out their strengths, bring new players along, and try to be the best version of themselves when it matters most.

 

did the bills do this? which players got better? what leaks were plugged? which strengths were identified? we all saw shakir come out smoking in the preseason and thought he could play a big role. he finished the regular season with 10 catches. mckenzie returned (somewhat unexpectedly) this year and was targeted more, but he didn't perform to expectations and became a non factor down the stretch and into the playoffs. the lack of development with pass catchers led to them bringing back cole beasley and john brown! james cook, drafted to possibly be the eventual answer at rb - and hopefully a big threat in the pass game - got about 12 non garbage time carries all year before the browns game, and he was targeted 1 time or fewer as a pass catcher in 11 of the bills' 18 games. the bills relied on the run game a few times late season, but you never really felt like it was something they trusted. did anyone see a backup OL emerge as a viable long-term option? again, who got better?

 

on defense, the bills opted to shore up an already veteran roster with more veterans. but hyde went out. von went out. tre white didn't look like himself. poyer didn't play to his standard. who stepped up? who got better? you could argue elam. edmunds got better. but who else? the pass rushers? i'd say no. 

 

schematically, did the offense or defense evolve? did the play calling improve? new packages, new wrinkles, changes in strategy, anything? this to me is the biggest difference between how the bills and chiefs are run. the chiefs entered the year in a clear rebuild-on-the-fly and rebuilt it on the fly. trust, patience, development, bigger picture. in doing so, they gave eight rookies big roles and added tyreek's future replacement via trade w toney. the bills entered the year in win-now mode, came up short, identified two or three new players (at most) who will be part of their long-term future and will now have to say goodbye to a handful of the veterans who couldn't help them win anything of significance. 

I don't disagree with anything you are saying.

 

This all contributes to what I just said in another thread--namely, the Bills are more likely to be WORSE next year than BETTER.

 

I'll be surprised if we improve upon this season, i.e., appear in the AFC championship, or better.

 

It will take a lot of clever scheming and personnel moves to get back to where we were this season, and this season wasn't good enough! 

 

At least Beane is a smart guy and I do have faith in him.

 

 

[BillsFanSD]

1 minute ago, nosejob said:

I can't understand why this is so hard? If I were Dorsey, I would tell Josh....Look we're gonna practice hitting cook in the flat, Beasley on the screen and DIggs on quick outs. The ball must be gone by 2! We're gonna run these 90 times a week in practice until it's mastered!

How do you know this anything to do with Josh?  I wasn't seeing a whole lot of plays designed to set up the short game, especially involving Cook.  I know they were sprinkled in a little bit, but the QB can't execute plays that aren't being called.

[nosejob]

Well then call them! I can't count the times Cook is wide open on the top of the screen and Josh doesn't even blink at him. ....Or passing up a wide open Diggs to throw it deep into double coverage!

 

....and yes I can blame Josh

Edited January 23, 2023 by nosejob

[YodaMan79]

4 minutes ago, nosejob said:

I can't understand why this is so hard? If I were Dorsey, I would tell Josh....Look we're gonna practice hitting cook in the flat, Beasley on the screen and DIggs on quick outs. The ball must be gone by 2! We're gonna run these 90 times a week in practice until it's mastered!

Just remember to number of posters on here, it's KDs fault Josh often refused to take the high % easy yards.  Oh, and put the D in rough spot deep in the zone time over time. 

4 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

How do you know this anything to do with Josh?  I wasn't seeing a whole lot of plays designed to set up the short game, especially involving Cook.  I know they were sprinkled in a little bit, but the QB can't execute plays that aren't being called.

 

You don't have to have the all 22 film to see a couple of guys open in the flat or underneath. 

[beebe]

one thing i'd add to the original post, and it's an important point: even if the chiefs lose to the bengals or don't win the super bowl, the 2022 season will be viewed by them as a monster success. they identified eight new rookies who will be a big part of their future - some of them are already looking like future stars - and they reset their salary cap situation in a major way. there's a brand new core in place for the next 3-4 years regardless of what happens. 

 

when you go veteran heavy like the bills did, and deemphasize in-season player development (intentionally or not), the future outlook starts to look pretty dark when you don't get the outcome you hoped for. 

 

 

[kirkwoodus13]

Stop blaming Josh. The oline was terrible. Cook is a one dimensional player. Everyone know he is either running to the sidelines or running to the flat. Those plays were not open. Our Running backs are bad. Josh make more defenders miss than those two combine. They are simply not physical enough. Fix the oline. We can protect/ run against three and 4 man fronts. That leaves 7-8 in coverage. This the problem 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, kirkwoodus13 said:

Stop blaming Josh. The oline was terrible. Cook is a one dimensional player. Everyone know he is either running to the sidelines or running to the flat. Those plays were not open. Our Running backs are bad. Josh make more defenders miss than those two combine. They are simply not physical enough. Fix the oline. We can protect/ run against three and 4 man fronts. That leaves 7-8 in coverage. This the problem 

If the OL is terrible, then design plays to get the ball out faster. You know, like the Bengals did yesterday.

[YodaMan79]

Josh is paid as a top tier QB.  He's not being slammed.  He lead the league in TOs, he deserves some criticism.   

[BullBuchanan]

I agree with a lot of this. While we were playing to try to win the game against the Jets, KC was tooling up their team to win in January. The worst part, is that despite our wins, we didn't even look like a team that was well prepared in the regular season. We sure as ***** didn't against the Dolphins or the Bengals either.

Think about it - what exactly can you say this team did to exploit the fact we played against a 7th round rookie QB last week? What can you say we did to exploit the Bengals starting 3 backup offensive lineman?

We either had no plan at all, or it was so horrendously bad that it looked like we didn't. That to me is the theme of the season - preparedness. No matter the team, no matter the situation you could count on us looking EXACTLY the same week to week. Sure, we'd go run heavy for a quarter here and there, but we quickly abandoned it for the low percentage deep shots When they worked, we won, when they didn't, well you get what we got yesterday. Same on defense and their soft ass nickel zones.

Next year I want to see a gameplan from week to week that looks like they've ever spent 5 minutes watching the opposing team, and I'd LOVE to see them use players that either excel at that gameplan or can help us with future gameplans down the road.

[kirkwoodus13]

If you are getting to the QB quickly by only rushing 3-4 defenders there is really no where to go. The majority of Josh completions were contested while Burrows targets was wide open. The difference in the game yesterday was Cincy was able to get pressure with their front four and we were not. Then later in the game they added their blitz package and our oline was done

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, kirkwoodus13 said:

Stop blaming Josh. The oline was terrible. Cook is a one dimensional player. Everyone know he is either running to the sidelines or running to the flat. Those plays were not open. Our Running backs are bad. Josh make more defenders miss than those two combine. They are simply not physical enough. Fix the oline. We can protect/ run against three and 4 man fronts. That leaves 7-8 in coverage. This the problem 

Tell us that you don’t know much about a player without telling us you don’t know much about him.  The bolded does just that.  Cook has done the majority of his damage up the middle.

2 minutes ago, kirkwoodus13 said:

If you are getting to the QB quickly by only rushing 3-4 defenders there is really no where to go. The majority of Josh completions were contested while Burrows targets was wide open. The difference in the game yesterday was Cincy was able to get pressure with their front four and we were not. Then later in the game they added their blitz package and our oline was done

👍🏻 

[kirkwoodus13]

Obviously you don’t watch the games. Cook was a wasted second round pick. Is first carry was a fumble. He did get  better as the year went on but he is not going to make a career of grinding out tuff yard’s between the tackles. His biggest asset is obviously speed. Beanie wanted to draft Travis Eteniene from Jacksonville so Cook

was a chance at redemption. He might be proven right but as off now he is not physical and is way more effective running off tackle or to the sideline. Devin is our between the tackle runner. So stop the nonsense. 

[nosejob]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Next year I want to see a gameplan from week to week that looks like they've ever spent 5 minutes watching the opposing team, and I'd LOVE to see them use players that either excel at that gameplan or can help us with future gameplans down the road

This is especially maddening with the defensive gameplan. Stale,old 1990 D with a stuck in the way uninspiring old man....and I'm not much younger, but every year teams adapt....just not us.