Is McDermott or Frazier the Architect of the Defensive Scheme?

[Chaos]

My understanding is that McDermott is a "Defensive HC".  A lot of people think the defense will get better if Frazier is gone. If this defense is McDermott's scheme, and the personnel we have on the roster have been picked for their fit to the scheme, what is the expected upside of replacing Frazier?  Is it simply play calling, or do people think McDermott is going to give free reign to a new DC to install their own system? 

[TwistofFate]

The problem on defense is personnel, imo. They have missed on draft picks and it shows. 

 

Outside of Von Miller, who has stepped up at the first level? Outside of Milano, who has stepped up at the second level? There is no one to even speak of in the secondary this year, they were all hurt and mostly non existent. 

 

The scheme isn't the problem, execution and players making plays is.  Listen to McDermott press conference, he admits it.  They knew what Cincinnati was doing and they couldn't stop it. Why? Because Cincinnati was too talented for them. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

The problem on defense is personnel, imo. They have missed on draft picks and it shows. 

 

Outside of Von Miller, who has stepped up at the first level? Outside of Milano, who has stepped up at the second level? There is no one to even speak of in the secondary this year, they were all hurt and mostly non existent. 

 

The scheme isn't the problem, execution and players making plays is.  Listen to McDermott press conference, he admits it.  They knew what Cincinnati was doing and they couldn't stop it. Why? Because Cincinnati was too talented for them. 

Agree with this to a point. I think it’s an unholy marriage between the rely-on-rushing-4 scheme and 4-who-can’t-rush talent. 

[Boatdrinks]

The secondary is a shell of its former self - mostly due to injury. The LBs were never very good -Milano aside. The DL failed to perform. Tackling has been an issue for awhile. Edmunds failed to shed blocks and was stiff/ mechanical as usual. The Bengals didn’t look super talented to me - that sounds like an excuse from McD. They targeted our weakest spots and executed basic plays. The Bills D is suspect at the fundamentals of blocking and tackling. In less than ideal weather conditions and with a beat up OL, the Bengals coaches smartly went to the basics. They outclassed the Bills players in that dept for sure. 

[klos63]

To many fans it's McDermott when playing well and Frazier when not.

[papazoid]

collaborative = cya

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, klos63 said:

To many fans it's McDermott when playing well and Frazier when not.

I was about to write the exact same thing.  

[bmur66]

If it is McDermotts D then he has to go too. The only elite player on defense is Milano. That's it.

[Big Turk]

43 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

The problem on defense is personnel, imo. They have missed on draft picks and it shows. 

 

Outside of Von Miller, who has stepped up at the first level? Outside of Milano, who has stepped up at the second level? There is no one to even speak of in the secondary this year, they were all hurt and mostly non existent. 

 

The scheme isn't the problem, execution and players making plays is.  Listen to McDermott press conference, he admits it.  They knew what Cincinnati was doing and they couldn't stop it. Why? Because Cincinnati was too talented for them. 

 

Then what explains the 3 playoff losses then?  It's the same story in ALL of them. Timid defensive scheme that allows the other team to do whatever the hell they want all game long. 38,42 and 27(could have been 50) points.  There is no way that is simply on players when they were one of the top D's in the NFL in terms of points allowed all 3 years. That is being afraid and giving up way too much soft stuff underneath while trying to prevent deep balls over the top.

[Wraith]

48 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

The problem on defense is personnel, imo. They have missed on draft picks and it shows. 

 

There is no question scheme was a huge problem. Check out the image below. How the hell can you rush 7 and play the CBs deep on third and short? With the poor footing from the snow there was no chance of this working. Bills started pressing on early downs after the 1st quarter but on third down it was consistently soft all game. It was too easy for the Bengals offense.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Wraith

[LeGOATski]

The systems on defense AND offense AND special teams are what McD wants to run for his vision of complimentary football. Coaching, game planning, and play calling still fall on Frazier. Then can absolutely get someone different and it would affect all those aspects of the operation.

 

Do you all remember when McD took over play calling duties from Frazier in his first year and it suddenly got more aggressive with better-timed blitzes and pressure? 

 

They absolutely should bring in a new coordinator. If McD can't fire Frazier, it's a problem.

[Bruffalo]

They both deserve a lot of flak.  McD goes on and on in each presser about how the Bills need to learn and grow from mistakes, but there's zero accountability as far as we can tell. 

 

There's no self-reflection on this team.  McD can't even evaluate his own talent effectively. Can anyone tell me with a straight face that Dane Jackson needed to be in for the majority of that game over Elam?  

[PauleeeWalnuts]

 

10 minutes ago, Wraith said:

 

There is no question scheme was a huge problem. Check out the image below. How the hell can you rush 7 and play the CBs deep on third and short? With the poor footing from the snow there was no chance of this working. Bills started pressing on early downs after the 1st quarter but on third down it was consistently soft all game. It was too easy for the Bengals offense.

 

 

I was screaming about that. This DL  rotation and head-scratching defensive schemes is really starting to make me hate “the process” instead of trusting it.

[Ramza86]

12 minutes ago, Wraith said:

 

There is no question scheme was a huge problem. Check out the image below. How the hell can you rush 7 and play the CBs deep on third and short? With the poor footing from the snow there was no chance of this working. Bills started pressing on early downs after the 1st quarter but on third down it was consistently soft all game. It was too easy for the Bengals offense.

 

 

 

I love this picture. We show them this look. Joe Burrow knows this ball is going to Chase. I knew this ball was going to Chase. I was telling my gf he will throw the ball to Chase. Perfect, now you can have someone get their hands up on the edge rush to stop it....

 

This was a prime opportunity to bait Joe....but nope...we just call a play and thats it. No mental warfare.

[Wraith]

Just now, Ramza86 said:

 

I love this picture. We show them this look. Joe Burrow knows this ball is going to Chase. I knew this ball was going to Chase. I was telling my gf he will throw the ball to Chase. Perfect, now you can have someone get their hands up on the edge rush to stop it....

 

This was a prime opportunity to bait Joe....but nope...we just call a play and thats it. No mental warfare.

Right! First time I saw this on third down I thought they were showing blitz but were going to drop back back to clog passing lanes and maybe get a pick but nope, everyone rushes and literally every receiver is wide open at the sticks.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It's McDermott's defense. The scheme is fine. Its the lack of any talent on the DL. Stupid Oliver draft pick. When does undersized DT ever work out well? Horrible DE draft choices. 

They need to dump Epenesa and Basham and find a couple of veterans. No more draft picks. 

[clayboy54]

McD has said since day one that this is Leslie's defense. I'm sure he has input and after all, he picked his D coordinator. But one thing Sean has done very well as a HC is delegate to his coordinators. One thing for certain is that no way Sean was calling the D at any time this year.

 

If Beane decides that the D must change, then it will be Frazier, not McDermott that has to go.

[billieve420]

28 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

The systems on defense AND offense AND special teams are what McD wants to run for his vision of complimentary football. Coaching, game planning, and play calling still fall on Frazier. Then can absolutely get someone different and it would affect all those aspects of the operation.

 

Do you all remember when McD took over play calling duties from Frazier in his first year and it suddenly got more aggressive with better-timed blitzes and pressure? 

 

They absolutely should bring in a new coordinator. If McD can't fire Frazier, it's a problem.

 

I say put McDermott on the hot seat and have him call plays next season. Promote from within so someone can handle the day to day stuff. I don't them see them bringing in someone from the outside and installing a new system.

Edited January 23, 2023 by billieve420

[Billz4ever]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

My understanding is that McDermott is a "Defensive HC".  A lot of people think the defense will get better if Frazier is gone. If this defense is McDermott's scheme, and the personnel we have on the roster have been picked for their fit to the scheme, what is the expected upside of replacing Frazier?  Is it simply play calling, or do people think McDermott is going to give free reign to a new DC to install their own system? 

Whether it's McD or Frazier is dumb either way.

 

I can't say I've ever seen a defensive scheme that brings a big blitz on 3rd and 4, but also has all the DBs playing at least 10 yards of the ball.

 

Mind-numbingly frustrating to watch.

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

The problem on defense is personnel, imo. They have missed on draft picks and it shows. 

 

Outside of Von Miller, who has stepped up at the first level? Outside of Milano, who has stepped up at the second level? There is no one to even speak of in the secondary this year, they were all hurt and mostly non existent. 

 

The scheme isn't the problem, execution and players making plays is.  Listen to McDermott press conference, he admits it.  They knew what Cincinnati was doing and they couldn't stop it. Why? Because Cincinnati was too talented for them. 

So my question then...is McD trying to throw Beane under the bus there or does McD have some culpability in these draft picks that aren't panning out?  I wonder how much McD is involved in who we end up picking.  Seeing with how defense-heavy we have gone, I would have to say he's been deeply involved.

[Wayne Cubed]

It's McDermott's scheme, it's primarily a Cover 3. He's the architect. There's nothing wrong with that scheme. Frazier comes from a Tamp 2 background but he's more than capable of running variations of Cover 2 or a Cover 3 scheme. I'm not convinced the scheme needs to change.

 

It's a lot of everything, to my eyes. Play calling and the game planning was not great yesterday. Then's there's the players. They still have to preform. Poyer played his worst game I've ever seen as a Bill. And within McD's scheme it requires intelligent and instinctive players in secondary. We know Tre is a shell of his former self, Elam is a man CB still learning zone, Dane Jackson lacks the instincts and so on and so on.