So...is it a rebuild or is it a try again?

[Hebert19]

1 hour ago, Nelius said:

Yeah it’s sort of a rebuild. 
 

Probably not popular but I think you may try to keep Motor for cheap if possible so that you don’t have another gaping hole. Serviceable is better than the mess we have at both lines and safety.

BTW.  McDermott has had his hands tied.  He can now hire who he wants.  

 

Couldn't fire Frazier when he's producing top 3 Ds and dorsey was forced on him.  

 

Now.  Hire a real OC and a new DC and he can right the ship

[Brandon]

It's not a true rebuild,  but there definitely needs to be some major changes,  starting with the front office shifting its roster building priorities much more heavily toward the offense. 

[Hebert19]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

IMO that is why winning it all was so important this year. Lost to the Chefs in the AFCC, then lost to them in the Divisional round. This year we looked like the best team in the AFC and solidly beat KC in the regular season. The arrow was pointing up. Now we just lost to the Bengals in the divisional round. And we weren’t even competitive. So now if feels like we’re running third in the AFC. The arrow isn’t pointing up anymore and that’s tough. 

But our big moves in offseason were out.  Von and can't say enough that crowder was a big part of the plan.  

 

 

Just now, Brandon said:

It's not a true rebuild,  but there definitely needs to be some major changes,  starting with the front office shifting its roster building priorities much more heavily toward the offense. 

This.  Oline. Wr.  

 

And get younger and faster on D.  

[Kaenon]

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

First off.  It's not a real rebuild...but I mean do we need major changes.  Josh will get us in playoffs by himself so nothing is a real rebuild. 

 

I think it's a "rebuild "

 

1.  Poyer goes 

2.  Do not extend Oliver.  Let him earn it.  

3.  Cut or trade brown.  He is terrible.  

4.   Franchise Edmunds. 

5.  Fire dorsey promote Brady. 

6.  Fire Frasier.  

7.  Let Singletary walk

8.  Trade tre?   This one I'm not sold on but in a different D I'd like to see benford and Elam.  

9.  Draft oline 

10.  Draft wr

11.   Draft safety

12.  Trade diggs?   Again.  This one is debatable but I think everything needs to be on table. 

13.  Re sign bease if he wants to come back. 

14.  Cut McKenzie. 

 

Seems like a rebuild. While making playoffs. 

1. Yup.

2. Extend on the reasonable after the market shuts him down.

3. Spencer? Yeah...retool this whole line.

4. Long-term deal similar to Milano.

5. No comment.

6. Yup. Hate his Defensive scheme.

7. Heck no!

8. Too soon to know where Tre will be and doubtful anyone will trade anything for him right now.

9. YES! EVERY ROUND.

10. I guess?

11. Probably.

12. Hmmm...maybe. idk hard one

13. Lol.

14. Yup

 

[Hebert19]

34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Not a remake, but a pretty big retool.  Predictions:

 

1.  Morse retires, and they let Saffold and Bates go.  Draft a C and sign a FA guard.  Boettger takes the LG spot.  

 

2.  Poyer goes.  Oliver is not extended.  Singletary comes back because there isn’t a big market for RBs.

 

3.  Draft two O linemen and a S the first 3 rounds.  Shakir becomes the # 2 to Diggs.

 

4.  Edmunds is signed, and Frazier moves on.  We get a DC with a more aggressive mentality.  

I can get behind this if we also lose dorsey. 

[BarleyNY]

1 minute ago, Hebert19 said:

But our big moves in offseason were out.  Von and can't say enough that crowder was a big part of the plan.  

 

Missing Von was big, but I can’t see him in the field changing the outcome of this game. Crowder was a solid addition but he wasn’t changing this outcome either. Besides, every team has to deal with losses. Cincy came into this game missing both OTs and an OG, then their C got hobbled and played on a wonky knee. Who else of note were we missing on the DL that got dominated by the Bengals scrubs?

[Locomark]

The term rebuild is for hockey teams and truly bad teams with no quality players.  That being said the 90s’ Bills had something like 7 players from their 1st Super Bowl left when they took the field for their 4th Super Bowl. So technically all team constantly rebuild. 
 

I personally don’t think Poyer or Singletary are on this team next year because of $. Saffold is questionable.   They also better stop paying Taiwan Jones before he turns 40. 

[Hebert19]

BTW.  I don't care if anyone is willing to admit it.  Josh regressed this year.  A lot.  He wasn't a QB this year.  He was a good athlete making plays.  That's on dorsey. 

Just now, Locomark said:

They also better stop paying Taiwan Jones before he turns 40. 

Omg yes.   We are only team in league with like 14 special teasers on roster.  Ha

[SCBills]

Fire Frazier and gut the Defense.  
 

KC is now in Mahomes big $$ and they have Chris Jones and some meh.  They make some plays, give up a lot of plays. It’s up to Spags to coach and scheme above average games from an average unit. 
 

We have a defensive HC.. so we should reasonably expect that.  If not, why keep him?

 

Let Poyer, Edmunds and Phillips walk.   Just do it. 
 

Also, Tre … do you want to still play?  Is his future here?  Something to watch perhaps. 
 

Bills can free up money for one big signing.  That can’t be on defense.  Who’s the best OL available?  Go get him.  
 

Draft OL/WR in the first two rounds and then fill out the defensive side of the ball in the mid-late rounds. 
 

Edited January 23, 2023 by SCBills

[ctk232]

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

First off.  It's not a real rebuild...but I mean do we need major changes.  Josh will get us in playoffs by himself so nothing is a real rebuild. 

 

I think it's a "rebuild "

 

1.  Poyer goes 

2.  Do not extend Oliver.  Let him earn it.  

3.  Cut or trade brown.  He is terrible.  

4.   Franchise Edmunds. 

5.  Fire dorsey promote Brady. 

6.  Fire Frasier.  

7.  Let Singletary walk

8.  Trade tre?   This one I'm not sold on but in a different D I'd like to see benford and Elam.  

9.  Draft oline 

10.  Draft wr

11.   Draft safety

12.  Trade diggs?   Again.  This one is debatable but I think everything needs to be on table. 

13.  Re sign bease if he wants to come back. 

14.  Cut McKenzie. 

 

Seems like a rebuild. While making playoffs. 

Curious why Brady over Dorsey? I don’t think Dorsey has been great but in his first year I feel more of the offensive issues belong to the OL and decisions by Josh. 
 

Related, keep Diggs. Don’t remove options for Josh. Rather than resign Bease I’d hope we find room to sign a second receiver to mirror Diggs. OBJ comes to mind but injury questions and price tag are relevant and other similar top receivers should absolutely be considered.

 

Lastly, I wish we could just improve the OL in the draft but man we are BAD there. Gonna need to save purse for this in FA as well. Give me IOL early and often in the draft, round one preferable if the talent is there, at least one if not two G/C. I honestly don’t know whether Morse will last, and certainly need interior OL help desperately. Brown is a question mark - absolute physical potential just needs to put it together. Dion is regressed since his covid bout but hard to replace, especially with what else is arguably needed on defense. But improving the OL improves the floor of every other position on offense. Protect the big guy and give him time to throw and a LOT opens up.

[DaggersEOD]

I mean. If we’re not getting a dome, we need a team that can take advantage of the special conditions of our stadium. 
 

Today I learned that our Zone D scheme doesn’t cope well with poor footing conditions. We already know our O is much better in a dome/warm weather. 
 

So we either need fundamental scheme changes or a willingness to reconsider the dome (dead horse I know). 
 

Otherwise it feels like we’ll be trying to ice skate up hill every year. 
 

Perhaps a hybrid initially, but I don’t want bend/don’t break/zone when it turns into bend/give out. I’d rather high risk/hi reward/man type D. Jam-at-the-line type. The kind that can provide short fields due to strip/sacks/ints. Sometimes gives up chunks (ours seems to give those away anyway) but is very physical. 
 

On O, instead of building from the out/in build from in/out. No more toys until there is a mountain of young talented, physical O-linemen. I mean Dallas type O-line investment even if it means Jax/Jags type receivers.

I always imagine an offense like a Racecar and the OC as the engineer/mechanic. The QB is like the driver of that Racecar. When OC/QB are together a long time, the car gets super customized to the driver’s strengths/preferences. 

 

I think JA can do more with a big beefy 4x4 type O than he can with a precision, highly tuned sports car type O. I also think our stadium decisions favor this type as well. 
 

..or maybe I’m just super salty. Dorsey seemed out of his depth…

Edited January 23, 2023 by DaggersEOD

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

First off.  It's not a real rebuild...but I mean do we need major changes.  Josh will get us in playoffs by himself so nothing is a real rebuild. 

 

I think it's a "rebuild "

 

1.  Poyer goes 

2.  Do not extend Oliver.  Let him earn it.  

3.  Cut or trade brown.  He is terrible.  

4.   Franchise Edmunds. 

5.  Fire dorsey promote Brady. 

6.  Fire Frasier.  

7.  Let Singletary walk

8.  Trade tre?   This one I'm not sold on but in a different D I'd like to see benford and Elam.  

9.  Draft oline 

10.  Draft wr

11.   Draft safety

12.  Trade diggs?   Again.  This one is debatable but I think everything needs to be on table. 

13.  Re sign bease if he wants to come back. 

14.  Cut McKenzie. 

 

Seems like a rebuild. While making playoffs. 

1) Agree, can’t afford him. Get younger. 
2) Agree 100%
3) Spencer Brown? Disagree. Let him sit and learn.

4) Disagree, the Tag is 18m, we can re-sign him for something more cap friendly IMO.

5) Ehhhhh I go back and forth. I think he gets one more year. 
6) Agree, been saying it for 2 years. 
7) Disagree, but we can’t afford him

8 ) Disagree 1000% ACLs take a while. 
9) Disagree, sign a RG and RT. Bates back to LG where he looked good last year. 
10) Agree, round 1. Elite speed. 
11) Agree, but to replace Hyde next year. Poyers replacement is already on the team. 
12) I’m as annoyed by his antics as the next, but we’d eat 25 million. 
13) Ehhh 1 year deal and he has to earn it in preseason. 
14) Agree

 

This was fun. 

[Hebert19]

25 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Fire Frazier and gut the Defense.  
 

KC is now in Mahomes big $$ and they have Chris Jones and some meh.  They make some plays, give up a lot of plays. It’s up to Spags to coach and scheme above average games from an average unit. 
 

We have a defensive HC.. so we should reasonably expect that.  If not, why keep him?

 

Let Poyer, Edmunds and Phillips walk.   Just do it. 
 

Also, Tre … do you want to still play?  Is his future here?  Something to watch perhaps. 
 

Bills can free up money for one big signing.  That can’t be on defense.  Who’s the best OL available?  Go get him.  
 

Draft OL/WR in the first two rounds and then fill out the defensive side of the ball in the mid-late rounds. 
 

We on same page.  

 

I swear I'm only happy bills fan tonight because changes will happen.  Those who do not learn from the past.........

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Hebert19 said:

We on same page.  

 

I swear I'm only happy bills fan tonight because changes will happen.  Those who do not learn from the past.........

Its why I’m not even crushed by this loss.   We were exposed.  This isn’t 13 seconds.  This isn’t heartbreak.  
 

This is what we needed.   
 

There’s no hiding .. changes need to be made.  Both personnel and coaching-wise.  
 

And it’s about time.  Should’ve happened last year so we didn’t even get to this point. 

[Governor]

48 minutes ago, Bad Things said:

Rebuild the lines on both sides.  That's where our focus needs to be.

I thought we just did that. Ha! We suck at football.

[Bob in STL]

Not a rebuild, but a retool.  
 

Beane needs to hit on this draft and hope his last draft (Elam, Cook) make big strides.  We know the trenches are not good enough.  He is working under tough cap constraints.  That could mean a few surprises trying to build more draft capital.  Not enough impact players on this team. 
 

McDermott on solid ground but each coordinator position should be evaluated.  

Edited January 23, 2023 by Bob in STL

[Johnnycage46]

5 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

We on same page.  

 

I swear I'm only happy bills fan tonight because changes will happen.  Those who do not learn from the past.........

But will they?  Mcd is stubborn.  I don't see any staff changed actually happening.  And Beane will draft a RB round 1 and and reach for d line

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

First off.  It's not a real rebuild...but I mean do we need major changes.  Josh will get us in playoffs by himself so nothing is a real rebuild. 

 

I think it's a "rebuild "

 

1.  Poyer goes 

2.  Do not extend Oliver.  Let him earn it.  

3.  Cut or trade brown.  He is terrible.  

4.   Franchise Edmunds. 

5.  Fire dorsey promote Brady. 

6.  Fire Frasier.  

7.  Let Singletary walk

8.  Trade tre?   This one I'm not sold on but in a different D I'd like to see benford and Elam.  

9.  Draft oline 

10.  Draft wr

11.   Draft safety

12.  Trade diggs?   Again.  This one is debatable but I think everything needs to be on table. 

13.  Re sign bease if he wants to come back. 

14.  Cut McKenzie. 

 

Seems like a rebuild. While making playoffs. 

1.  Unless he's willing to come cheap.  He looked shot, but he was injured.

2.  No argument.

3.  Could he move inside?

4.  Agree or sign him long term.

5.  No argument.  Dorsey will continue to put too much on Josh's shoulders.

6.  No argument.

7.  If Singletary is willing to sign a team friendly deal, he still has value.

8.  Disagree.  I think Tre will be fine. He was coming around but may have been impacted by the snow today.  More tentative.

9.  Yes.

10.  Yes

11.  Yes.

12.  Diggs will be fine.  See number 5.

13.  Not sure.  Let's see what Shakir can do?

14.  Can't argue with this.  Need a better WR corps in general.

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by jkeerie

[Governor]

10 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

We on same page.  

 

I swear I'm only happy bills fan tonight because changes will happen.  Those who do not learn from the past.........

It’s pretty simple.

 

McD, time for your medicine. You bring in 2 new coordinators and concentrate on coaching. No more input/philosophy on the defensive side of the ball because you suck at defense.
 

Can you do that?

McD: I can’t do that to my friends.

Ok, you’re fired.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Governor

[Hebert19]

Just now, Governor said:

It’s pretty simple.

 

McD, time for your medicine. You bring in 2 new coordinators and concentrate on coaching. No more input/philosophy on the defensive side of the ball. 
 

Can you do that?

McD: I can’t do that to my friends.

Ok, you’re fired.

This