I've come to accept our offensive scheme relies on Allen too much

[Milanos Milano]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Brown is surely part of the problem. Bates is meh. Saffold definitely needs to be sent packing. Hopefully Morse comes back. This offseason is going to be huge in how this team moves forward. Either we see the necessary sweeping changes or they continue with the same failed experiments at various positions. 

We will likely be entering into a mini rebuild time period. This team is not built to win a super bowl. Super Bowls are won by great oline play or so much WR/RB talent that it can mask it. It’s the Allen and Diggs show, that’s it. It’s time to draft another #1 WR and some oline help. 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We will likely be entering into a mini rebuild time period. This team is not built to win a super bowl. Super Bowls are won by great oline play or so much WR/RB talent that it can mask it. It’s the Allen and Diggs show, that’s it. It’s time to draft another #1 WR and some oline help. 

 

I doubt they are going to suddenly go from 2nd on offense to like 15th. They can reload without rebuilding.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[pigpen65]

What offensive scheme? The offensive scheme under Dorsey has never progressed beyond having Allen run around to buy time while waiting for a receiver to get open. It's the same offensive scheme any of us could run of we were hired as OC. It's amateur hour. The Bills need(ed) an actual OC.

Edited January 23, 2023 by pigpen65

[billieve420]

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

We ALL want to fire Frazier, but isn't he running McDermott's defensive scheme? 

Still matters what plays are being called and when. I don’t doubt McDermott would have been more aggressive with the play calling versus guy like Frazier. We lost that game in the 1st quarter and was never able to recover.
 

Years ago when McDermott took over play calling in the middle of the game from Frazier and defense looked totally different despite being the same defensive system. I think McDermott should be on the hot seat next season and would like to see him call the plays as I don’t believe they are going to start from scratch with new DC/System.

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/17/buffalo-bills-play-calling-sean-mcdermott-leslie-frazier/

 

 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, pigpen65 said:

What offensive scheme? The offensive scheme under Dorsey has never progressed beyond having Allen run around to buy time while waiting for a receiver to get open. It's the same offensive scheme any of us could run of we were hired as OC. It's amateur hour. The Bills need(ed) an actual OC.

 

C'mon man. This is a little ridiculous. Actual more than a little ridiculous, a lot ridiculous.

 

You don't end up as the 2nd best offense by having "no scheme".

 

Are there things he needs to fix and get better at? Sure. To pretend they are simply just winging it every play is completely asinine.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Milanos Milano]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I doubt they are going to suddenly go from 2nd on offense to like 15th. They can reload without rebuilding.

Nope, it’s mini rebuild time. We have players like Davis, Poyer, Edmunds, and Oliver all coming up. We have tied way too much money on slightly above average game play. That isn’t going to win a super bowl, you need star players that are developed through the draft. In order to beat KC and Cinci, we have to load up with O talent. 

[Andy1]

Our offensive talent has withered while Bean has put massive resources into the defense. Dorsey also looks like he is in over his head. He didn’t dial up anything new on offense for this game. There is no misdirection, no quick pass game, no power run sweeps with Josh, no deception, screens, no play calls that set up other plays. Our offense is just vanilla and hope for Josh to make an incredible play. So disappointing from a game plan perspective. 

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

then upgrade the weaponry around him and more importantly the OLine.

Who doesn't want that? You don't think Beane and McD REALLY want that?

 

Fans always acting like teams can pick awesome players at will. You know all 32 teams in the NFL are trying to do the same?

 

I'm really POed, it was the most frustrating game I recall in over 20 years.  But before firing people, you need FIRST to find great replacements! 

 

Edit: but the coaches were baaaaad today. How come the Bengals could scheme a guy like Chase to be so open while the Bills cannot? Same watching the Chiefs, Rams, 49ers, etc. Their coaches "score" some plays. Chase didn't have his TD because he used his world class speed or because Burrows is so awesome. He simply was open and uncovered. Dorsey and Frazier had their worst game. McD and Beane deserve another year but on the hot seat. All that money on the Dline to see what happened today??

Edited January 23, 2023 by Jerome007

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Nope, it’s mini rebuild time. We have players like Davis, Poyer, Edmunds, and Oliver all coming up. We have tied way too much money on slightly above average game play. That isn’t going to win a super bowl, you need star players that are developed through the draft. In order to beat KC and Cinci, we have to load up with O talent. 

 

I think Shakir is going to surprise a lot of people next year. We saw flashes this year.

 

You can say that but it's unlikely to happen. Losing defensive players doesn't have anything to do with the offense.

 

Davis is still on a rookie deal next year.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you think they are going to do on this mini rebuild but if adding pieces on offense is what you are saying that can be done on the fly 

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

I think Shakir is going to surprise a lot of people next year. We saw flashes this year.

 

You can say that but it's unlikely to happen. Losing defensive players doesn't have anything to do with the offense.

 

Davis is still on a rookie deal next year.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you think they are going to do on this mini rebuild but if adding pieces on offense is what you are saying that can be done on the fly 

What I mean by the mini rebuild is if we are unable to retain Edmunds/Poyer that we just ignore it and roll with it for the time being. This draft has to be totally dedicated to supporting Allen, he’s proven that he deserves it. 

[1onemangang7]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

It's taken me a while but our scheme just basically relies on Allen to be a superhero too much. Basically if he is off, or the other team has a great scheme against him, we have a hard time consistently playing well on offense.

 

Sure we will get our plays because Allen is still Allen. But it's got to the point that we need to stop taking that for granted and get him some help. 

 

It's like when you have a great worker who can make up for 3 people being out by piling more work on him.

 

Sure...that works for a while but then you eventually burn that worker out and when something comes up that needs all his attention other areas start failing since he can't bail them out.

 

I guess what I am saying is we need more answers on offense that don't include Josh Allen being an alien, because our offense relies on that more than any other in the NFL.

 

wow dude you were blocking people earlier in the season for having that opinion.  Catch on a little faster next time and let the coach and gm hear it.  They cant hide behind JA17 forever. 

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, 1onemangang7 said:

wow dude you were blocking people earlier in the season for having that opinion.  Catch on a little faster next time and let the coach and gm hear it.  They cant hide behind JA17 forever. 

 

I don't jump to conclusions, I let things actually play out.

 

Way too many people here change opinions like the wind blows based on knee jerk reactions to a game, or a half, or a quarter or a drive.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[1onemangang7]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I don't jump to conclusions, I let things actually play out.

 

Way too many people here change opinions like the wind blows based on knee jerk reactions to a game, or a half, or a quarter or a drive.

 

 

well while youre letting it play out the window is closing on the chance to win a championship.  These idiots are dependent on Allen for not only the success of the team, but for covering their own blunders.  I'll give it a rest.....  i feel as worn out as 17 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, 1onemangang7 said:

well while youre letting it play out the window is closing on the chance to win a championship.  These idiots are dependent on Allen for not only the success of the team, but for covering their own blunders.  I'll give it a rest.....  i feel as worn out as 17 

 

Based on? Manning won his first one after 7 years. Farve after 6. Rodgers after 6. Brees after 9. Elway after 15.

 

I mean there is no "one way" to do it. 

 

This "window" talk gets a little old...there will basically be smaller and bigger windows throughout his career based on what's around him and on D.

 

 

[1onemangang7]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Based on? Manning won his first one after 7 years. Farve after 6. Rodgers after 6. Brees after 9. Elway after 15.

 

I mean there is no "one way" to do it. 

 

This "window" talk gets a little old...there will basically be smaller and bigger windows throughout his career based on what's around him and on D.

 

 

Based on the leauge is trending to superbowl teams won it before the franchise qb's rookie contract expired or their next was a detriment to keeping a skilled roster.  But youre right always hope while you have the qb in place.  Be well.  Im on football vacation as of now 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, 1onemangang7 said:

Based on the leauge is trending to superbowl teams won it before the franchise qb's rookie contract expired or their next was a detriment to keeping a skilled roster.  But youre right always hope while you have the qb in place.  Be well.  Im on football vacation as of now 

 

It helps, but ultimately it ends up being how good the pieces around him are on offense and defense.

[TheBrownBear]

5 hours ago, H2o said:

Fix the OL, I mean LEGITIMATELY FIX the OL, and this team performs a lot different. He's running for his life every week. He was hurried on over 50% of his drop backs today and hit numerous times. This is after the disaster we saw last week. 

The Saffold signing was an abject failure and Brown was a disaster all season.  I hope it was just health related for Spencer or otherwise we need to replace a minimum of three offensive lineman this offseason.

[Big Turk]

58 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

What I mean by the mini rebuild is if we are unable to retain Edmunds/Poyer that we just ignore it and roll with it for the time being. This draft has to be totally dedicated to supporting Allen, he’s proven that he deserves it. 

 

Yeah, I mean I am fine with that. Defensively they will be a little worse but offensively they will get better. Offense is easier to be consistent with than defense in the NFL year to year.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

It's taken me a while but our scheme just basically relies on Allen to be a superhero too much. Basically if he is off, or the other team has a great scheme against him, we have a hard time consistently playing well on offense.

 

Sure we will get our plays because Allen is still Allen. But it's got to the point that we need to stop taking that for granted and get him some help. 

 

It's like when you have a great worker who can make up for 3 people being out by piling more work on him.

 

Sure...that works for a while but then you eventually burn that worker out and when something comes up that needs all his attention other areas start failing since he can't bail them out.

 

I guess what I am saying is we need more answers on offense that don't include Josh Allen being an alien, because our offense relies on that more than any other in the NFL.

 

 

agree 100% i would love to bring in a Niners style offense.

 

could you imagine Allen on the 49s ?? They would be unstoppable

 

McDermott did have it the first year with tyrod and actually made the playoffs with it. There seemed to be friction between McD and that OC so he was let go, but i think that style of offense would give Josh the help he needs and allow him to be a super hero when need be.

 

 

5 hours ago, NUT said:

Stop building the D-Line, get more talent on OL and weapons.

 

The defense will fall in the rankings, but you win SB's with offense these days.

 

problem is we didn't do well on the Dline either, there are slightly above average. We also need a more aggressive scheme like when Schwartz was here, he turned bums into studs

 

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

4 hours ago, colin said:

 

 

Fact dude.

 

We have had worse seasons wrt how we ended them since 2020 w our loss at KC.

 

Our d was ranked 2 in 2018, with young scrubs who we ended up paying.

 

Our team is like a one note band, and we can't adapt.  That's on coaching and the fo.

They refuse to adapt. They've pretty much said as much in interviews at times. They live and die by their scheme.