Travis Kelce... is open on every play

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Watched a few of the <many catches> Kelce had. All were against zone. Kelce is very very good at exploiting zone coverage, and Mahomes trusts Kelce to see the same soft spots in the zone he does.

 

Not once did anyone try bump and run vs him (jamming within 5 yards) or cover him 1:1 with a large CB/S/fast LB. Teams did that with Gronk to break up the rhythm between Brady and him to mixed success.

 

Kelce always had a clean release, unless he was blocking and runs to open spots in the zone. Even if he is blocking he knows when to release and where to run.

 

Reasons for that:

 

1. Even when you do bump and run him he is just bigger and better. I forget the game earlier this year (was his 4 TD day) a team actually knocked him down onto his backside at the snap. Result of the play? Touchdown caught by Travis Kelce. 

 

2. His cuts for a guy his size are incredible. That is what he does so much better than Gronk. He cuts like a 5'10 slot receiver. So you can try and ask a big linebacker or a safety to take him 1v1 in man but his change of direction he gets open. One of the early 3rd downs last night the Jags had a safety on him in man he just made a nasty cut and got separation.

 

3. Reid is absolutely brilliant at taking the eyes of the D elsewhere "oh this is a play going to MVS on the boundary", Kelce is in "blocking" and Mahomes is patient enough to wait until the safety cheats to the boundary, Kelce slides off his chip and heads to the middle of the field.

 

4. As far as last night goes... the Jags were 32nd in the NFL defending tight ends. 

[TAinLack.]

8 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Just triple cover him every play. I feel like teams don't do this enough 

or bump his azz on the line of scrimmage every frigg'n play!!

[Just Jack]

8 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

Mahomes thrives in the short/quick passing game.  Allen/Dorsey refuse to do it 

That’s what Brady/Patriots did for all those years.  Little 3-5 yard dump off passes.  Doesn’t look pretty, but only took 2 or 3 to get another first down. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, TAinLA said:

or bump his azz on the line of scrimmage every frigg'n play!!

 

He is bigger and stronger than whoever you are bumping him with.

[Mikey152]

It’s not really Andy Reid, and honestly it’s not really Travis Kelce either…he’s a great TE, but I see some people on here saying he’s just too big and too fast and that, flat out, is not the reason. Nobody wants to hear it, but it really comes down to his position and his quarterback.

 

First, as a position TE is almost unguardable when they play in-line because the guys lining up over him (dl and lb) are trying to tackle the guy with the ball. If they focus too much on the TE, your pass rush and run defense suffers. If you try and cover him with a CB or Safety, you expose your back end and run defense. The way to stop a good TE without sacrificing other aspects of your defense is by playing zone and getting consistent pressure that gets home.

 

Thats where the qb comes in. Mahomes makes teams pay if they pay too much attention to Kelce…but even more so his elusiveness and ability to buy time with his eyes downfield negates the best weapon at stopping a TE: pass rush. Mahomes abilty to threaten the whole field, combined with his ability to buy time and make plays is what makes Kelce great. With enough time, any decent TE or Rb can find space in a zone.

 

I will give Reid this, though…that dude is a master a scheming “legal” opi. One more reason it is tough to play man against Kelce

[Tim Tindale]

5 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Especially when Knox is needed to block and not running routes.  You want to maximize the passing game?  Stop nickel and diming the OL with poor pass blockers who need TE help.  

 

 

James could not keep up with Kelce at the end of the Chargers game in LA Week 11.  Matched up against James 1:1, Kelce ran a short crossing route and scored from 17 yards out...and James was a 2nd Team All Pro this season.  

Kelce went for 10-115-3 in that second Charger game. Not sure that constitutes textbook containment of Kelce. 

[HappyDays]

26 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

It’s not really Andy Reid, and honestly it’s not really Travis Kelce either…he’s a great TE, but I see some people on here saying he’s just too big and too fast and that, flat out, is not the reason. Nobody wants to hear it, but it really comes down to his position and his quarterback.

 

First, as a position TE is almost unguardable when they play in-line because the guys lining up over him (dl and lb) are trying to tackle the guy with the ball. If they focus too much on the TE, your pass rush and run defense suffers. If you try and cover him with a CB or Safety, you expose your back end and run defense. The way to stop a good TE without sacrificing other aspects of your defense is by playing zone and getting consistent pressure that gets home.

 

Thats where the qb comes in. Mahomes makes teams pay if they pay too much attention to Kelce…but even more so his elusiveness and ability to buy time with his eyes downfield negates the best weapon at stopping a TE: pass rush. Mahomes abilty to threaten the whole field, combined with his ability to buy time and make plays is what makes Kelce great. With enough time, any decent TE or Rb can find space in a zone.

 

I will give Reid this, though…that dude is a master a scheming “legal” opi. One more reason it is tough to play man against Kelce

 

Kelce had 1,100 yards in 2016 and 1,000 yards in 2017 with Alex Smith as his QB. His average yearly production has obviously gone up with a better QB but he is a great TE in a great system no matter who is throwing him the ball.

[SoCal Deek]

It’s funny but watching the Chiefs use Kelce yesterday I kept saying “Yeah, like that, keep doing that.” I swear they could throw it to him on twenty consecutive plays if they wanted to. Every throw was between 5 and 15 yards right over the middle. I’d love to see the same thing from the Bills today. Slow and methodically move the chains down the field. You could see how frustrating it was for Jacksonville. 

[Mr. WEO]

These "why don't they just cover Kelce???" threads never get old

[finn]

9 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

He doesn't really scheme him open, if you have ever noticed on replays, a lot of times Kelce is running in one direction and then stops and starts running back the other direction and gets himself open on his own. It's not always Reid getting him open on routes

Exactly. It's a short-passing game, but that doesn't always mean quick passes from Mahomes. Sometimes Kelce gets open quickly, but other times he moves around within ten yards while Mahomes buys time until he's open. For some reason that I cannot fathom, teams (like the Bengals last night) insist on covering him with a linebacker. Put it all together--an escape-artist QB (up to now) with excellent accuracy, an exceptionally elusive TE, and a LB in single coverage, and you have "He's open every play!" 

 

It seems to me the answer is to put a safety or big CB on him, maybe two. Take your chances elsewhere. 

[foreboding]

10 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

So what’s stopping them ? Kelce has been kicking their ass for years…

 

Im more worried how the Bills stop him next week ( if they win of course… I’m. not looking past the Bengals ) 

You don't really stop Kelce, you have to just make Mahommes very uncomfortable and challenge Kelce every play so things don't come as easy as it did yesterday. He set records for crying out loud.

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, balln said:

It’s the combo of Reid and mahommes 

 

mahommes is much more consistently accurate short to intermediate to allow these schemes to work 

Mahomes was super accurate while when his soul jumped into Henne’s body and completed 5 of 7 short to intermediate passes on the 98 yard TD drive.  
 

Reid is special and seems to be getting better with his play calling.  
 

Mahommes is special too….. but I’m eager to see how he does withOUT Andy Reid.  Danie
 

 

[Buffalo03]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

McD and Frazier refuse to do this.

 

I won’t claim to know more than an NFL coach but it seems to make sense in my mind to chuck Kelce off the line with a LB or DE and then let the coverage defenders handle him afterward. 

 

Its infuriating to watch him catch pass after pass.

I mean, if I was a DC, I would triple cover Kelce and let Juju, MVS, Toney and Hardman beat me. I wouldn't even let Kelce off the line of scrimmage

14 minutes ago, finn said:

Exactly. It's a short-passing game, but that doesn't always mean quick passes from Mahomes. Sometimes Kelce gets open quickly, but other times he moves around within ten yards while Mahomes buys time until he's open. For some reason that I cannot fathom, teams (like the Bengals last night) insist on covering him with a linebacker. Put it all together--an escape-artist QB (up to now) with excellent accuracy, an exceptionally elusive TE, and a LB in single coverage, and you have "He's open every play!" 

 

It seems to me the answer is to put a safety or big CB on him, maybe two. Take your chances elsewhere. 

I would probably do something like Tre White cover him all game and give him some safety help behind him and bump his ass at the line

Edited January 22, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Kaenon]

10 hours ago, balln said:

It’s the combo of Reid and mahommes 

 

mahommes is much more consistently accurate short to intermediate to allow these schemes to work 

I think it's Kelce

[LyndonvilleBill]

28 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I mean, if I was a DC, I would triple cover Kelce and let Juju, MVS, Toney and Hardman beat me. I wouldn't even let Kelce off the line of scrimmage

I would probably do something like Tre White cover him all game and give him some safety help behind him and bump his ass at the line

I would put Elam on him and say your entire purpose in life is to stick on Kelce. Let White, Jackson, Benford or whoever handle the WR'S. If Kelce stays in and blocks, so be it. If he comes off the field, use Elam as a Blitzer. 

[T master]

11 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

Mahomes thrives in the short/quick passing game.  Allen/Dorsey refuse to do it 

 

At the beginning of the season Josh seemed to be doing this exact thing & they were just dominating just about every game then he just seemed to go away from it during the period where they had lost those few games I hope he gets back to it they have started using the run game more which is good !

 

If Dorsey can marry the 2 runtime & the short passing game i think they will get back to being for the most part unstoppable .

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Tim Tindale said:

Kelce went for 10-115-3 in that second Charger game. Not sure that constitutes textbook containment of Kelce. 

Was not my point. The guy was covered by a 2nd Team All Pro on that okay and managed to beat him. Defending against Kelce is more than chipping at the LOS or putting a DB on him. 

[Dopey]

11 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

That’s exactly my question, what’s stopping them?

 

Some of that is Kelce, no argument, but a lot of that is also scheme.

Some of it is Mahomes too. 
Sorry guys, Josh to Knox doesn’t even come close to Mahomes and Kelsey. 

[TAinLack.]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is bigger and stronger than whoever you are bumping him with.

I realize that but get somebody in his way, many times he goes untouched and goes wherever he wants to.  Some physical contact off the line of scrimmage can't hurt at all.

[transient]

8 hours ago, Lothar said:

Dr Pepper is mostly Dr Bronner's peppermint soap with all the natural ingredients missing. 

Dr Bronner’s peppermint soap is essentially Dr Kevorkian, it just takes longer to kill you.