Rapoport: Greg Roman fired

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

How do you figure that? 

 

I mean, Championship caliber is, as Championship caliber does.  The Ravens got pretty solidly Whumped in the playoffs in 2019.  I think the general perception of the 49ers in 2011-2013 was that they had an outstanding defense, and just not enough offense to match it.

Because in every one of those years, the final playoff games came down to essentially last-play situations: a weird muff in 2011 in OT, a fourth down miss from within the 10 yard line with a few seconds to go in 2012, and a ridiculously good Richard Sherman breakup of a pass to Crabtree in the EZ on the final play. They played evenly with their opponents in all of those games, and in 2011 and 2013, their opponents went on to win SBs. Yes, the Niners had good defenses, but -- for instance -- the Niners run game in the 2012 SB was unstoppable once it got rolling late in the game. They could easily have won that game. Indeed, on the third down play on their final possession, the play was there but Kaepernick missed seeing the crosser, who would have scored. 

 

In 2019, the Ravens put up 530 yards but had a staggering number of turnovers and the like. Tennessee literally couldn't stop them and Baltimore was clearly the better team. They would have beaten TN 8 out of 10 times, but turnovers of course happen.  

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The year is 2025.  Justin Fields has throw for 3300 yards 22 TD's and 12 INT's the last two year in Greg Roman's system.  Rushes for 700 yards and 6 TD's. The Bears win 10 games each year, making the playoffs once and losing in the Wild Card round. Fields wants top 5 QB money. Contract negotiations start breaking down (it's the system, his numbers aren't that impressive etc etc.)

 

TBD makes the topic.  "Should the Bears pay Fields?"

 

And around and around we go on the Greg Roman carousel.

Or they draft five difference makers on D this year with the haul they get from trading out of one, play ball control, and win with a dominant defense, going 13-4 and winning a SB. It's not like this hasn't almost happened multiple times in the past with Roman.

Edited January 19, 2023 by dave mcbride

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. But I believe that Allen is a bit of a unicorn. I don't think you fall into the trap of trying to make every young drafted QB who struggles early Josh Allen. I'd hire GRo. I'd say let's do this for 2 years. If it still doesn't work I am probably firing my HC, OC and drafting a new QB. 

 

Of course if they really like one of the QBs this year they should do that and keep Getsy or hire some other OC.

I think they need to make the choice of "Is Justin Fields capable of running an NFL offense?"  If the answer is "we don't know," then you run an NFL offense and see what happens. If the answer is "no," then you dump his ass and draft Bryce Young or whoever.

 

Skip the entire Roman option entirely. Just a waste of time.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Listened to a Ravens insider last week, and Roman was not liked in Baltimore. 

 

The consensus was he can design an outstanding run game, but never could do much with the pass. He described as a high-school level simplistic. 

 

DeCosta is the long-time FO member there, so I would expect them to start investing more in pass catchers. 

 

Unless they get a QB that can pass outside the numbers - I don’t think it matters how much they invest in pass catchers.

 

I think they have seen exactly what they have in Lamar and they invested correctly - big time TEs and guys to the middle of the field.

 

Long term unless they are moving on - this is a bad decision for the future of the team.

 

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Because in every one of those years, the final playoff games came down to essentially last-play situations: a weird muff in 2011 in OT, a fourth down miss from within the 10 yard line with a few seconds to go in 2012, and a ridiculously good Richard Sherman breakup of a pass to Crabtree in the EZ on the final play. They played evenly with their opponents in all of those games, and in 2011 and 2013, their opponents went on to win SBs. Yes, the Niners had good defenses, but -- for instance -- the Niners run game in the 2012 SB was unstoppable once it got rolling late in the game. They could easily have won that game. Indeed, on the third down play on their final possession, the play was there but Kaepernick missed seeing the crosser, who would have scored. 

 

In 2019, the Ravens put up 530 yards but had a staggering number of turnovers and the like. Tennessee literally couldn't stop them and Baltimore was clearly the better team. They would have beaten TN 8 out of 10 times, but turnovers of course happen.  

Or they draft five difference makers on D this year with the haul they get from trading out of one, play ball control, and win with a dominant defense, going 13-4 and winning a SB. It's not like this hasn't almost happened multiple times in the past with Roman.

Almost happened. lmao.  I actually wanted to quote you earlier.

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I dunno, CB; I'm less about long term development than winning a SB. And the 2019 Ravens as well as the 49ers every year between 2011 and 2013 were SB caliber teams without a doubt. To put it a different way, what Josh is doing at age 30 doesn't mean much to me if he brings us a SB victory this year.

 

I think @GunnerBill is absolutely right about the Bears, and I'd add another reason. 75-plus years is a long time, and that's been about how long the Bears have lacked anything approaching an elite passing game. If any team is cursed with regard to passing QBs, it is the Bears. They should accept that they can't change fate and instead go all out to be a Ravens-like running QB team with Roman calling the shots. 

GRo has never developed a QB long-term or won a Superbowl so you don't have to worry about either!

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think they need to make the choice of "Is Justin Fields capable of running an NFL offense?"  If the answer is "we don't know," then you run an NFL offense and see what happens. If the answer is "no," then you dump his ass and draft Bryce Young or whoever.

 

Skip the entire Roman option entirely. Just a waste of time.

 

The Ravens is an NFL offense. So was the 9ers. What you mean is can he run a high flying pass first offense that the elite guys can. No he probably can't. But it isn't that or nothing, that is my point. Too many fans have convinced themselves it is.

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Almost happened. lmao.  I actually wanted to quote you earlier.

GRo has never developed a QB long-term or won a Superbowl so you don't have to worry about either!

Why "lmao"? Do you deny that they almost got to the SB in 2011 and 2013 and almost won in 2012? And when I say "almost", I really mean it -- games coming down to one play at the end, basically. 

 

Btw, if you thinking I'm advocating hiring Roman, you're missing my point. This has nothing to do with the Bills and everything to do with his actual record.

Edited January 19, 2023 by dave mcbride

[ArtVandalay]

Greg Roman to Chicago if they stick with Fields, book it. Read option, half field read offense works great for a year or two then flames out, always does. 

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Ravens is an NFL offense. So was the 9ers. What you mean is can he run a high flying pass first offense that the elite guys can. No he probably can't. But it isn't that or nothing, that is my point. Too many fans have convinced themselves it is.

How could a Bills fan say this?  We have watched our franchise change over night because of one single player. We weren't ass every year because of Chan or Jauron or Chris Kelsay or Dareus.  We were trash because we didn't have a franchise QB. 

 

Does that mean that every team needs to rebuild until they get a Mahomes or an Allen?  No, of course not. 

 

But how about a guy like Dak?  Or Kirk Cousins? Guys that can win games with their arm. That aren't instant losers if they have to throw 40x a game.

 

What these perennial bad teams should figure out is if their young QB can be "the guy" worth the second contract. Hiring Greg Roman screws that up. Even you yourself are sitting here saying that Lamar NEEDS Roman's system.

 

I made this post below. This is what will happen.

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The year is 2025.  Justin Fields has throw for 3300 yards 22 TD's and 12 INT's the last two year in Greg Roman's system.  Rushes for 700 yards and 6 TD's. The Bears win 10 games each year, making the playoffs once and losing in the Wild Card round. Fields wants top 5 QB money. Contract negotiations start breaking down (it's the system, his numbers aren't that impressive etc etc.)

 

TBD makes the topic.  "Should the Bears pay Fields?"

 

And around and around we go on the Greg Roman carousel.

 

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Why "lmao"? Do you deny that they almost got to the SB in 2011 and 2013 and almost won in 2012? And when I say "almost", I really mean it -- games coming down to one play at the end, basically. 

Horseshoes. Hand grenades.

Edited January 19, 2023 by FireChans

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Because in every one of those years, the final playoff games came down to essentially last-play situations: a weird muff in 2011 in OT, a fourth down miss from within the 10 yard line with a few seconds to go in 2012, and a ridiculously good Richard Sherman breakup of a pass to Crabtree in the EZ on the final play. They played evenly with their opponents in all of those games, and in 2011 and 2013, their opponents went on to win SBs. Yes, the Niners had good defenses, but -- for instance -- the Niners run game in the 2012 SB was unstoppable once it got rolling late in the game. They could easily have won that game. Indeed, on the third down play on their final possession, the play was there but Kaepernick missed seeing the crosser, who would have scored. 

 

In 2019, the Ravens put up 530 yards but had a staggering number of turnovers and the like. Tennessee literally couldn't stop them and Baltimore was clearly the better team. They would have beaten TN 8 out of 10 times, but turnovers of course happen.  

 

Wow.  I'm struggling to process this viewpoint.  All I'll say is that in general, I don't believe "turnovers happen".  Yes, there are fluky plays, but in general, they either result from a mistake on the part of the players/team committing it, or high-level play on the part of the team recovering it.

 

I'm sorry, but if you can't score a TD until the 4th Q which was the Ravens situation in 2019, I don't know how you logic "they were clearly the better team".  Tennessee did stop them; they stopped them with a punt and 4 turnovers on downs in addition to the interceptions and the fumbles.  Meanwhile Tennessee ran all over them and Tannehill had a low-production, but high efficiency day with 3 TD and enough pass game to keep the run cranking.

 

I think that's "if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle" logic.  I guess, but she doesn't and she isn't.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

How could a Bills fan say this?  We have watched our franchise change over night because of one single player. We weren't ass every year because of Chan or Jauron or Chris Kelsay or Dareus.  We were trash because we didn't have a franchise QB. 

 

Does that mean that every team needs to rebuild until they get a Mahomes or an Allen?  No, of course not. 

 

But how about a guy like Dak?  Or Kirk Cousins? Guys that can win games with their arm. That aren't instant losers if they have to throw 40x a game.

 

What these perennial bad teams should figure out is if their young QB can be "the guy" worth the second contract. Hiring Greg Roman screws that up. Even you yourself are sitting here saying that Lamar NEEDS Roman's system.

 

I made this post below. This is what will happen.

 

Horseshoes. Hand grenades.

So the early 90s Bills are worthless then? "Win it all or you don't count" seems like a pretty extreme way to view the world, but maybe that's just me.

[The Jokeman]

27 minutes ago, H2o said:

I'm not sold they don't move on from him this year. There is no time now they could greater maximize their return for him. I am thinking they wil FT him and then trade him to the highest bidder.

I'd love to see the Jets trade for him and then hire Roman as their OC lol

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Utah John said:

but with it looking likely that Jackson won't return, that scheme is a non-starter for any other QB.

Really? Justin Fields? That might be a fit. 
Kyler Murray once he’s healthy? Ryan Tannehill wherever he may go? Tim Tebow (hehe)

There’s a lot of teams with limited (at least at this point in their careers) QBs that would become better immediately with Roman as OC. it may be his fate that his ability to make the most out of limited QBs will doom him to working with them forever. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, FireChans said:

How could a Bills fan say this?  We have watched our franchise change over night because of one single player. We weren't ass every year because of Chan or Jauron or Chris Kelsay or Dareus.  We were trash because we didn't have a franchise QB. 

 

Does that mean that every team needs to rebuild until they get a Mahomes or an Allen?  No, of course not. 

 

But how about a guy like Dak?  Or Kirk Cousins? Guys that can win games with their arm. That aren't instant losers if they have to throw 40x a game.

 

 

Kap went to a Superbowl. Lamar won an MVP. What makes them less satisfying as an alternative to a true elite guy than Dak or Kirk? 

[newcam2012]

23 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

If Dorsey and Brady move on I would definitely interview him as OC. Mike Shula is still on the staff with no rumors for interviews.

 

Roman could help develop an actual run game to compliment Josh Allen. Keep Mike Shula as a passing game coordinator to flesh out Roman's run concepts, and keep the passing attack JA and Diggs/Davis/Knox are familiar with. The offense would probably look more like Philly or Cincy than 'Josh do it all'.

 

It might force Buffalo to make some actual investments in the OL and be more productive with the RBs. I'd love to see what he could do with Cook, Singletary, or a Singletary like back-fill, McKenzie and a QB like Allen.

 

Roman has often made chicken salad with chicken sh!t.

Bring Roman aboard! 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Kap went to a Superbowl. Lamar won an MVP. What makes them less satisfying as an alternative to a true elite guy than Dak or Kirk? 

 

Going to the SB yes but if my teams claim to fame is my QB won MVP and 1 playoff game in 5 years then I am not that excited.

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Unless they get a QB that can pass outside the numbers - I don’t think it matters how much they invest in pass catchers.

 

I think they have seen exactly what they have in Lamar and they invested correctly - big time TEs and guys to the middle of the field.

 

Long term unless they are moving on - this is a bad decision for the future of the team.

 

 

 

I could be mistaken, but if you go look at the NFL Nexgen Stats charts, I think you'll see that Lamar has quietly but significantly improved his ability to pass outside the numbers.  So we'll see, if they keep Lamar but bring in someone who can design a more complete passing game and some better receivers.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Kap went to a Superbowl. Lamar won an MVP. What makes them less satisfying as an alternative to a true elite guy than Dak or Kirk? 

Kaep was out of the league 3 years later. Lamar went from MVP to pending FA.

 

You can't sit here in one breath saying that Lamar will struggle outside of Roman's system (when Lamar has already had two pretty mediocre years) and then in the other say that he's a better option than Dak.

 

If you truly believe that the best they can get out of Lamar is in Greg Roman's system as the 28th or 32nd passing offense, then you cannot think he's more valuable than Dak.

 

You also said they should trade Lamar and start over at the beginning of the topic!

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

So the early 90s Bills are worthless then? "Win it all or you don't count" seems like a pretty extreme way to view the world, but maybe that's just me.

They aren't worthless but I wouldn't say they had all the answers when it came to winning Superbowls either.

Edited January 19, 2023 by FireChans

[Bookie Man]

I don’t think KD is going anywhere yet. Next season though.. HE GONE. 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Going to the SB yes but if my teams claim to fame is my QB won MVP and 1 playoff game in 5 years then I am not that excited.

 

But are they that much worse than the other viable players who are not elite.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But are they that much worse than the other viable players who are not elite.

 

As a fan I want to know my team can compete for a SB.  If I was a Ravens fan I wouldnt feel that at all. If they cant then I want them to try improve to someone who can.  Much like KC improved over Alex Smith who they were pretty competitive with but not competitive enough.

 

MVPs are fun little accolades but do nothing for me as a fan.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Scott7975