GQP: A 30 PERCENT NATIONAL SALES TAX

[SoCal Deek]

59 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

I don't need an explanation. I understand how they will spin it to make it seem fair and palatable for the masses. We won't know how we're getting screwed until long after the fact. Like I said, I don't trust any of them, simple as that.

And in the other thread you’re criticizing someone for space lasers? You have a palpable fear of ‘them’. Gene….it’s a SALES TAX. You pay one now! 
 

The problems with shifting to a national sales tax are certainly significant but the concept remains a very simple one. 

[cle23]

On 1/19/2023 at 9:50 AM, Westside said:

Don’t you mean urban blue cities? Lots of generations bleeding the public dry.

 

8 of the top 10 states for federal tax deficit are Red.  Kentucky takes in $26.6B more per year in federal aid than they pay in.  Alabama.  Louisiana.  Mississippi.  All huge deficits.

[SoCal Deek]

23 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

8 of the top 10 states for federal tax deficit are Red.  Kentucky takes in $26.6B more per year in federal aid than they pay in.  Alabama.  Louisiana.  Mississippi.  All huge deficits.

And you think we should cut them off? I’m not sure where you’re going with this. 

[Precision]

I love how these "poor" posters think they're somehow entitled to money earned by rich people.  Do you folks have a job or do you just like to complain that you aren't capable of earning more money? 

 

I'm rich, let me know what you need and my friend in Sudan can wire the money to you!

[cle23]

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

And you think we should cut them off? I’m not sure where you’re going with this. 

 

Did you not see the other guy claiming that all the Democratic generations bleeding people dry?  Just pointing out that overall, that isn't the case.  Ask him where he's going with his false info.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, cle23 said:

 

Did you not see the other guy claiming that all the Democratic generations bleeding people dry?  Just pointing out that overall, that isn't the case.  Ask him where he's going with his false info.

I think you just did. 😉

 

But…to set up a bunch of ridiculous government programs and then club people over the head for accepting the money that comes from them, has always seemed a bit odd to me. If you don’t want to give ‘red states’ the money…kill the programs. 

[cle23]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I think you just did. 😉

 

But…to set up a bunch of ridiculous government programs and then club people over the head for accepting the money that comes from them, has always seemed a bit odd to me. If you don’t want to give ‘red states’ the money…kill the programs. 

 

I think most "welfare" programs need reigned in, but I don't care who they are benefitting more when saying it.  I believe our country should provide some kind of safety net for people who fall on hard times, but it shouldn't be a career, no matter which side of the aisle is taking advantage of it.

 

These programs have morphed over the years into something they were never intended to be, and both Red and Blue are responsible.

Edited February 23, 2023 by cle23

[Buffarukus]

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

 

I think most "welfare" programs need reigned in, but I don't care who they are benefitting more when saying it.  I believe our country should provide some kind of safety net for people who fall on hard times, but it shouldn't be a career, no matter which side of the aisle is taking advantage of it.

 

These programs have morphed over the years into something they were never intended to be, and both Red and Blue are responsible.

 

im not sure why they arent at least partnered with community service. clean your community. mentor a kid. soup kitchen help. require them to do SOMETHING and society can actually get a return on its tax money.

[Tommy Callahan]

8 hours ago, Buffarukus said:

 

im not sure why they arent at least partnered with community service. clean your community. mentor a kid. soup kitchen help. require them to do SOMETHING and society can actually get a return on its tax money.

Feel the same for local jails and first-time criminals.  Put them to work. Wake them up early. make them do manual labor like cleaning or community work to both pay back the community and teach them that a normal life with a job is better than prison. cause the next step is usually for them to go from county, to upstate..  Then its over.

 

Cle23 has a hell of a point. Many on all sides game these systems to create a lifestyle long term vs a safety net for hard times..

 

 

 

 

[cle23]

27 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Feel the same for local jails and first-time criminals.  Put them to work. Wake them up early. make them do manual labor like cleaning or community work to both pay back the community and teach them that a normal life with a job is better than prison. cause the next step is usually for them to go from county, to upstate..  Then its over.

 

Cle23 has a hell of a point. Many on all sides game these systems to create a lifestyle long term vs a safety net for hard times..

 

 

 

 

 

The "career" lifestyle was incentivized as well.  It was a cheap way to buy votes.  And everyone point fingers at the "welfare queen" Democrats, but it's a problem that both sides have taken advantage of for years.  No one has the balls to restructure because it WILL cost them votes.  There is no simple answer to solve all the problems, but we have to start heading that direction somehow.

[SoCal Deek]

9 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

The "career" lifestyle was incentivized as well.  It was a cheap way to buy votes.  And everyone point fingers at the "welfare queen" Democrats, but it's a problem that both sides have taken advantage of for years.  No one has the balls to restructure because it WILL cost them votes.  There is no simple answer to solve all the problems, but we have to start heading that direction somehow.

The ‘somehow’ is to cut off these programs, or at the very least slowly defund them. Although well intentioned when they begin, your assessment of what they become is spot on. 

[T master]

21 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

What’s really funny is that according to BillStime, his family members left the school because of a book that was NOT in the library. Couldn’t they have just gotten that book for their children on their own? Now they have to buy them ALL the books, even the ones that ARE in the school library. Oh well. 

 

His brilliance must be a family trait i'm thinking 🤔 .

21 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

Were you educated in Tennessee?

 

 

No in a small farming town that had to use common sense to make every day life decisions . Did you get educated in NYC or LA ? 

[T master]

22 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

Were you educated in Tennessee?

 

 

Let me guess seeing as you won't answer a simple question with a simple answer .

 

I'm guessing given your history of answers you were born & raised in DC & you are now a lobbyist for the Democratic party . 

 

How'd i do BT ?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 hours ago, Buffarukus said:

 

im not sure why they arent at least partnered with community service. clean your community. mentor a kid. soup kitchen help. require them to do SOMETHING and society can actually get a return on its tax money.

 

2 hours ago, Chris farley said:

Feel the same for local jails and first-time criminals.  Put them to work. Wake them up early. make them do manual labor like cleaning or community work to both pay back the community and teach them that a normal life with a job is better than prison. cause the next step is usually for them to go from county, to upstate..  Then its over.

 

Cle23 has a hell of a point. Many on all sides game these systems to create a lifestyle long term vs a safety net for hard times..

 

 

 

 

good luck with getting that by the equity police. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

8 of the top 10 states for federal tax deficit are Red.  Kentucky takes in $26.6B more per year in federal aid than they pay in.  Alabama.  Louisiana.  Mississippi.  All huge deficits.

Now do county.

[JaCrispy]

I would not mind something like this but they would have to guarantee that they would eliminate all federal income tax- which I am skeptical that they would…

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

13 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

I think most "welfare" programs need reigned in, but I don't care who they are benefitting more when saying it.  I believe our country should provide some kind of safety net for people who fall on hard times, but it shouldn't be a career, no matter which side of the aisle is taking advantage of it.

 

These programs have morphed over the years into something they were never intended to be, and both Red and Blue are responsible.

This is it.  I find it interesting that the social safety net seems to be the size of 36 of the 50 states combined, that the people “leading” us have been in office for decades, have historically used insider information and influence peddling to become quite wealthy, and are looked to as architects of future tax law.  
 

This is a shared problem, borne of people generally out of touch with the problems of regular people, and nothing symbolizes it more clearly than the student loan buyout.  Joe says $10k, Warren et al says it’s not enough, $50k is a more equitable number.  
 

Meanwhile, a couple making $200k + is saved, and using sone basics planning tools, should be looking at family savings of $20,000 to $30,000 per year at a minimum. 
 

Unfortunately, ours is a consumption society where many people choose immediate gratification over doing some heavy lifting on their own, which in reality, is very light lifting. 

 

 

 

[cle23]

18 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This is it.  I find it interesting that the social safety net seems to be the size of 36 of the 50 states combined, that the people “leading” us have been in office for decades, have historically used insider information and influence peddling to become quite wealthy, and are looked to as architects of future tax law.  
 

This is a shared problem, borne of people generally out of touch with the problems of regular people, and nothing symbolizes it more clearly than the student loan buyout.  Joe says $10k, Warren et al says it’s not enough, $50k is a more equitable number.  
 

Meanwhile, a couple making $200k + is saved, and using sone basics planning tools, should be looking at family savings of $20,000 to $30,000 per year at a minimum. 
 

Unfortunately, ours is a consumption society where many people choose immediate gratification over doing some heavy lifting on their own, which in reality, is very light lifting. 

 

 

 

 

The student loan forgiveness thing is the dumbest course of action I've seen in a long time.  Are the loans predatory?  Absolutely.  So force the loans to be restructured to a reasonable situation, penalize the loan companies who intentionally caused the problem to enrich themselves, and then pay what you borrowed back with a reasonable interest situation.  The penalties should also pay back the loans that are paid in full, but that were forced to pay way more than a reasonable amount.  No student loan for $50K should take $120K to pay back.  I was lucky enough to pay mine and my wife's off within 5-6 years of graduation, but we sacrificed a lot in order to do that.

 

The loan forgiveness is just students and the loan companies benefitting from their dumb decisions, while the country eats it.

Edited February 23, 2023 by cle23

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:22 AM, Gene Frenkle said:

Inflation is raging. The Fed has continued to print dollars at an alarming rate. Salaries have not caught up to inflated prices.

 

 

So they want us to pay 30% on inflated prices instead of being taxed on our incomes, which are relatively deflated as more dollars are printed. As per usual, the 99% get screwed while the 1% presumably find ways around paying the new 30% sales tax? Call me a cynic,, but I feel like the average American is yet again taking it up the arse here. Thanks, old rich white guys!

 

What am I missing here?

 

It’s nothing more than political gamesmanship and posturing. The GOP is virtue signaling to its base so to keep them energized and active for the upcoming primaries. They’re also virtue signaling to undecided independents and economic libertarians alike, reminding them that the GOP is the purported party of fiscal responsibility and personal accountability while the Dems are the party of reckless spending and freeloading.

 

Now do I think this is an effective political strategy? No, absolutely not, because it will probably do more to energize the Dem base and because polling data indicates that Americans are strongly unreceptive to a 30% national sales tax replacement.

 

Moreover, economists will inevitably make their rounds in the media to obliterate the merit of this tax policy. And rightfully so…you can’t switch to a highly regressive taxation system in the midst of high inflation and low levels of personal/family unit savings. It will crush the working class, the poor, the retired, and significant portions of the middle class. We have an economy driven mostly by consumer spending, so this will halt/reverse economic growth and destroy investment portfolios.

 

If all this national sales tax talk somehow persists beyond the primaries and - even worse – actually gains traction in Congress, then our country needs to hold some earnest public debates on some very fundamental concepts, namely the diminishing marginal utility of wealth and the philosophy of “fair share” with regards to labor. Oh and throw in as much fiscal policy and monetary policy as possible, really, since we’re talking about taxes and inflation. Basically just a lot less drag queen story hour in the news and a lot more macroeconomics discussion.

 

EDIT: silly spelling mistake.

Edited February 27, 2023 by ComradeKayAdams

[sherpa]

Years ago, this issue actually got some reasoned, rational discussion.

The print number was discussed with an entire format of exclusions to protect the poor and eliminate the tax on certain necessities.

 

Sadly, that discussion is not possible now.