Josh Allen Bashers, what's your solution?

[K D]

Just now, Chaos said:

Can anyone complaining about the offensive result yesterday tell me how many points you expect the offense to score?

As many as the defense will allow. Why put a limit on it? If they keep all out blitzing and you are hitting your RB or WR for 5 yards every play then they will either stop blitzing or you are going to score 50 points 

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

As many as the defense will allow. Why put a limit on it? If they keep all out blitzing and you are hitting your RB or WR for 5 yards every play then they will either stop blitzing or you are going to score 50 points 

Defense allowed 34 yesterday. So the Bills achieved your goal. 

[ddaryl]

My biggest confusion was that we came out and started hitting the quick slants right off the bat... Then by series 2 that was thrown out the window..

I guess I fail to understand why we didn't stick with the quick passes and underneath stuff a little more... I've always want to see Allen master the underneath stuff because it a good way to keep opposing D's on heels a bit

 

the bottom line is by going long as much as we did tends to put ourselves behind the 8 ball if we don't hit and that's what happened... Nothing wrong with taking the underneath stuff and controlling the clock a little more

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by ddaryl

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The Dolphins defensive gameplan dictated that we throw the ball deep a lot. The problem is three deep throws bounced off the hands of Davis, Diggs, and Shakir, and on another one John Brown stopped running his route and it got picked. That's too many missed opportunities. We honestly should have scored like 50 points in this game and that's only because of Allen's arm talent.

Finally someone speaks the truth!

[Captain_Quint]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Can anyone complaining about the offensive result yesterday tell me how many points you expect the offense to score?

More about clock control than anything else.

[K D]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Defense allowed 34 yesterday. So the Bills achieved your goal. 

They didn't because Miami was HIGHLY successful in their blitzing causing 3 turnovers and 7 sacks

[Seventeen]

33 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

Why did Josh seem nervous or something? The problem with yesterdays game was failure to adjust to what the fish were doing:blitz. All game Josh was looking deep. Some short passes or running the ball more often would have neutralized the blitz. I bet the Bengals bring it next week. 

 

Josh was looking deep b/c guys were open - barely missed Diggs in the 1st quarter, drop by Shakir, TD to Gabe, near TD to Diggs, last 2 to Gabe just barely overthrown. Was Brown open on the INT - yes, if the ball had been thrown a few yards farther might have been a TD.

 

In hindsight, should he have been looking at the 15-20 yards routes or checkdowns ... sure. We also don't know what Dorsey called. 

     

Edited January 16, 2023 by Seventeen

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

They didn't because Miami was HIGHLY successful in their blitzing causing 3 turnovers and 7 sacks

I am 100 percent certain the Miami defense allowed the Bills to score 34 points yesterday.  

[K-9]

25 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

That interception was completely on Josh. He just threw it up for grabs. That play wasn't supposed to go to Brown. He started scrambling then saw man to man on Brown (who had already stopped running the route) and threw up a prayer and the most shocked person on the field was Brown who then turned around and started running with no idea where the ball was in the air. The Dolphins db caught it like a punt returner. It was bad. Throw the ball out of bounds and live to play another down. Josh refuses to do that. Every play has to be a big play. Sometimes the best play is an incomplete pass or a check down for 5 yards

Watch that play again. There was no scrambling, Josh stepped up in a crowded pocket and launched it. It wasn't something they improvised like last week against the Pats***. Allen didn’t get enough on the throw. 

[BillsFanSD]

I thought Allen played extremely well yesterday.  His receivers let him down with huge drops, neither pick was his fault, and while he should have just eaten that sack it would also be nice if linemen blocked a bit better.  His one legitimate mistake was trying to do too much on a play that we've seen him manufacture brilliance on before.  That's acceptable. 

 

The deep shots during "that" part of the game were annoying, but they were there for the taking.  I don't know whether that was Dorsey pushing, Allen pushing, or just everybody taking what the defense was giving us, but it's not like they were forcing the ball into double coverage or anything.  Those were favorable matchups.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The second INT is not on Josh, that is on Beasley. The first one.... I don't think it is a great read and he just kinda throws it up. It is the sort of play to be fair that I don't mind Josh making because he will get some big plays on those over the course of time. But I think in the context of the game it was the wrong decision. It was a layered route where the Bills have three guys running different depths to the same side of the field. It is first down. He can go to Morris for a short gain of an easy 4 or 5 yards, he can get the ball over the linebacker for Knox on the out breaker in the intermediate zone (which I think was the primary read) or he can try the deep shot 1v1. I think between Dorsey and Allen they took that third option too much yesterday and it made the offense very boom or bust and mistake prone. In the scenario, up 17-3 against a QB struggling to move the ball the Bills should have just kept taking the easy stuff rather than trying to force the ball downfield. 

 

EDIT: should also say none of the above exonerates John Brown who Romo was right, didn't run the route properly. But it is partly on Josh because I think it is the wrong read. It was getting greedy when they didn't need to. 

 

My issue with this mindset is that a 17 point lead in the 2nd quarter isn't enough to completely take your foot off the gas pedal. There are always shorter options available on deep completions. But if Allen's read tells him the deep throw is there, he's going to take it. This wasn't like the interception in the Bears game where he forced a throw into double coverage. If John Brown finished his route either a deep completion was there to be had or they would move on to 2nd and 10. And then none of us would be sitting here talking about Allen forcing the throw. Maybe on Shakir's deep pass that he dropped there were shorter options available but everyone seems to agree Allen made a good read there despite that also being a situation where we were up 17 points. Ultimately the receiver has to hold up his end of the bargain too.

 

I don't ever want Allen walking up to the line with the mindset of "I don't trust that my guy is going to make the play that is there." When that's his mindset is career is over. Instead of asking Allen to change his entire style we should probably just get receivers that can run downfield routes and catch the ball when it hits their hands. That's my take on it. This whole "why doesn't Allen check the ball down more?" narrative that has popped up this year is, to me, an excuse people use instead of acknowledging the real problem which is that our pass catchers just haven't been good enough this year. And that's how you end up with two past their prime off-the-street WRs making critical mistakes in a playoff game that lead to turnovers.

 

And we have a great counterexample of this point from the games this weekend - the Chargers went up 27-0 and tried dinking and dunking their way to victory. That strategy allowed an inferior opponent to get back into the game and win.

[hemma]

Unless in a throwing motion, 2 hands on the ball.

If on the run, at least tuck the ball like a ball carrier.

[K D]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I am 100 percent certain the Miami defense allowed the Bills to score 34 points yesterday.  

And if it was a better team they would have scored 40 on us. Luckily half of Miami's starters were out and they were using their 3rd string QB who had an ok game but not great

[78thealltimegreat]

8 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Welp, I've been reading up on the board, and it looks like Allen had another TERRIBLE GAME, with the Bills winning DESPITE HIM for the 8th game in a row. 

 

3 Fumbles!  2 INTS!  Completions under 60%!  This guy is a liability. 

 

BAD JOSH!  I'm tired of HERO BALL.  The ARM ARROGANCE.  352 Yards with long shots to Diggs, Davis and Shakir just don't make up for it. Neither does the perfectly placed TD pass to Knox.  Or the timely run to pick up a key 1st down.  This guy does not deserve a roster spot, let alone a game ball. 

 

It's time to get Keenum and Barkley ready to go for next week, because they RESPECT BALL SECURITY.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

Without Josh this team is so talent deficient at the skill positions they’d be in the Bryce Young sweepstakes 

Edited January 16, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat

[GunnerBill]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

My issue with this mindset is that a 17 point lead in the 2nd quarter isn't enough to completely take your foot off the gas pedal. There are always shorter options available on deep completions. But if Allen's read tells him the deep throw is there, he's going to take it. This wasn't like the interception in the Bears game where he forced a throw into double coverage. If John Brown finished his route either a deep completion was there to be had or they would move on to 2nd and 10. And then none of us would be sitting here talking about Allen forcing the throw. Maybe on Shakir's deep pass that he dropped there were shorter options available but everyone seems to agree Allen made a good read there despite that also being a situation where we were up 17 points. Ultimately the receiver has to hold up his end of the bargain too.

 

I don't ever want Allen walking up to the line with the mindset of "I don't trust that my guy is going to make the play that is there." When that's his mindset is career is over. Instead of asking Allen to change his entire style we should probably just get receivers that can run downfield routes and catch the ball when it hits their hands. That's my take on it. This whole "why doesn't Allen check the ball down more?" narrative that has popped up this year is, to me, an excuse people use instead of acknowledging the real problem which is that our pass catchers just haven't been good enough this year. And that's how you end up with two past their prime off-the-street WRs making critical mistakes in a playoff game that lead to turnovers.

 

And we have a great counterexample of this point from the games this weekend - the Chargers went up 27-0 and tried dinking and dunking their way to victory. That strategy allowed an inferior opponent to get back into the game and win.

 

But I don't think the play was designed to Brown. He was a decoy intended to clear out the safety. Josh just sees the safety squat on Knox across the middle sees JB 1v1 and thinks "why not?" and Brown isn't expecting the ball. Partly on the receiver, no doubt, and it isn't about throwing deep vs throwing short it is about contextualised decision making. I don't think that one was a smart decision in the context of the game or in the context of the way that play looked like it was designed to work. 

[Meatloaf63]

5 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Finally someone speaks the truth!

No, that was one option, and one should always be stretching the field. But a heavy blitz dictates that the other routes should be short to medium with an outlet receiver. The long route means blocks have to hold up against the blitz and obviously they consistently were not, as evidenced when you give up 7 sacks. One of which resulted in 7 pts for the opponent. The phins never stopped blitzing because the didn’t have too, we never consistently made them pay. Whether that’s on Dorsey and play design or Allen’s lack of execution we will have to watch the all 22 to have a better understanding. Yes we scored 34 pts and yes we win, but this should not have been in doubt till the last 2 minutes…

[Buffalo ill]

People get very defensive over any criticism of their favorite young millionaires, who don't know they even exist.  With that said, Allen amazing with a handful of wtf decisions sprinkled in at unfortunate moments.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

My solution? the coaches go over the turnovers and point out what EVERYONE could have done better then move on. Fans worry that it will happen the next game exactly the same way and there's no way we're beating Joe Burrow if we do that. Mark my words the Bengals should worry that if those plays don't happen they're in trouble.

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But I don't think the play was designed to Brown. He was a decoy intended to clear out the safety. Josh just sees the safety squat on Knox across the middle sees JB 1v1 and thinks "why not?" and Brown isn't expecting the ball. Partly on the receiver, no doubt, and it isn't about throwing deep vs throwing short it is about contextualised decision making. I don't think that one was a smart decision in the context of the game or in the context of the way that play looked like it was designed to work. 

 

We don't know what the read was. It could be that Allen is supposed to throw the deep ball in 1v1 no matter what. It happened enough times in this game that I have to think that is the case. My point is that if Brown just finishes his route no one would be sitting here today saying Allen forced the throw. Every decision looks stupid when it doesn't work.

[davefan66]

I would like to see more ball control offense when we have a lead.  Sprinkle in some passes when needed, and to keep the defense off the LOS.

 

I like the idea of “keeping your foot on the pedal”.  Not needed yesterday though.  Had a  young QB on the ropes, just needed run the ball and run the clock.