Josh Allen Bashers, what's your solution?

[newcam2012]

45 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The Bills offensive approach is high risk, high reward.  And suddenly Allen seems to have lost the ability to pick the right spots to take the risky play.  I hate to use the word "problem" because even with all the turnovers and execution miscues, they still managed to put up 34 points.  I'm speculating here because I don't personally know either person, but to me the concern is the impact Dorsey is having on Josh.  Not just from a play calling standpoint but from an emotional and mental view in game preparation and play.  Dorsey by all observations is an emotional person.  Do you want your OC to be more jacked-up emotionally than your QB?  I think the difference between last year's Josh and this year's Josh is Daboll was an anchor keeping Josh level and focused while Dosey is a balloon lifting him off to a point where emotion takes over thinking.

Sorry I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I think your premise and statements about Dorsey are unfounded and pure speculation. Now if you want to criticize his play calling I can get aboard on that. But to infer Dorsey is a jacked up and not emotionally ready based on one incident is kind of not right. But you are entitled to your opinion. 

[Brand J]

7 hours ago, cwater10 said:

If they are looking to give up 30 - 50 points, then great.  Study that tape!

Well, don’t lose perspective. If you told the blitz happy Chiefs they could get 7 sacks, 3 turnovers, and a TD on defense if they modeled the scheme Miami played, they’d take it in a heartbeat. As we know the KC offense is nothing like the Skylar led Dolphins that couldn’t sustain a drive, so there’s no way the Bills would have time to score 34 against that team.

[billykay]

13 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

The way it works is largest mouth is getting most attention and some just follow the mob,

 

Watch it. No politics allowed.

[WideNine]

51 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

It can be a grey issue instead of black and white. 
 

you don’t try to turn favre into brees or Bree’s into favre but you can work on softening either one’s pain points (picking a random gunslinger and a random dink and dunker)

 

There is too much absolutes in some folks that see any critique as folks hating on Allen.

 

There is a reasonable middle ground. Particularly when I recall being such a staunch advocate of Allen from the get-go and giving him time to be coached up.

 

If anything critique of Allen is driven more by fans desperately wanting him and the team to succeed and for Allen not to take so many unnecessary hits.

 

Those that see the amazing things only Allen can do, also can recognize that there are often high percentage throws he needs to take more often over lower percentage heaves.

 

That is where I think Dorsey needs to be better at finding ways to reign that behavior in to get Allen to work the sticks and use his outlet options more often.

 

Mahomes does that well, just the shovels and dumps to his outlets that keeps him from getting decleated and keeps the chains moving.

 

Problem is that I think Dorsey may be just as stubbornly aggressive as Allen.

 

There are also things he can clean up around taking care of the ball... not mishandling snaps and protecting the ball better when scrambling than he did yesterday.

 

Was wagging it around one handed like he stole a purse

 

Allen is my QB, I will always back him, but I can still respect a player and think there are ways they can improve their game.

 

 

 

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

6 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

At the end of the day, Josh is a 26 year old kid with the weight of the world on his shoulders and they are just turning him loose and saying go win us this game. It's not fair to him. He needs to play in more structure than just do whatever you can to get a first down.

 

The Dolphins ran almost all man-to-man and brought a lot of cover zero blitzes. That's why Josh was just throwing it deep play after play. They weren't calling the right man beater plays. If someone is coming at me with man to man and blitzes I'm hitting quick slants and screen passes to the RB. We heard how James Cook is this amazing receiver and they don't even throw him the ball. If it's man to man then put him on a LB and let him smoke him. What LB is keeping up with someone who runs a 4.3? Same with Hines. They have the players so it's just bad play calling 

Josh was scrambling. At that point you abandon the play and just try and get open. That's why they have to play in more structure. You can't have one guy scrambling around thinking he can chuck it deep when the other guy isn't even thinking he's going to throw it to him 

 

 You keep using this lame excuse about the WR may have thought Josh wasn't throwing to him. Brown is a pro, on a team playing in a playoff game, if that's what happened, that's 100% on Brown. I love how you're coming to Brown's defense, but not our best player....agenda much?

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

Well, don’t lose perspective. If you told the blitz happy Chiefs they could get 7 sacks, 3 turnovers, and a TD on defense if they modeled the scheme Miami played, they’d take it in a heartbeat. As we know the KC offense is nothing like the Skylar led Dolphins that couldn’t sustain a drive, so there’s no way the Bills would have time to score 34 against that team.

 

 Simply not true. Miami has the players on defense to do this and it's been their defensive scheme for a few years now. The Chiefs would get their backsides handed to them if they tried this.😂 Their secondary would be toast going one on one vs the Bills WRs. I remember they left Gabe and Diggs one on one a couple times in KC earlier this year and it resulted in tds.

 

 Please God, I beg of you, please let KC run the zero blitze scheme against us as often as Miami does. Pretty please with sugar on top.😂😂

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[papazoid]

both these statements can be true

 

josh is the best all around qb in the league

 

josh needs to turn the ball over less

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The Bills offensive approach is high risk, high reward.  And suddenly Allen seems to have lost the ability to pick the right spots to take the risky play.  I hate to use the word "problem" because even with all the turnovers and execution miscues, they still managed to put up 34 points.  I'm speculating here because I don't personally know either person, but to me the concern is the impact Dorsey is having on Josh.  Not just from a play calling standpoint but from an emotional and mental view in game preparation and play.  Dorsey by all observations is an emotional person.  Do you want your OC to be more jacked-up emotionally than your QB?  I think the difference between last year's Josh and this year's Josh is Daboll was an anchor keeping Josh level and focused while Dosey is a balloon lifting him off to a point where emotion takes over thinking.

Daboll literally had to move up to the booth because he was awful on the sidelines and realized it wasn’t going to work for him or Josh. If you watch Giants games he loses his ***** frequently. Here’s a quote from Derek Anderson around when Daboll moved up to the booth. 
 

For years, Anderson tried to convince Daboll to call games from the booth instead of the sideline. In Anderson’s mind, coaching from that perch had multiple benefits. Daboll could see the game unfold, but it also distanced him from the emotionally charged setting down below. “He’s just such a competitor on the sidelines,” Anderson said. “It’s hard for him to kind of take a break in between series and be like ‘OK, that series is over with. This is what we’re going to do next. When he’s in the box he can’t get too caught up in those emotions. It makes the communication easier and then it keeps him away from the chaos a little bit and keeps his head clear.”

 

The irony about this, is he didn’t really feel comfortable about moving up to the booth UNTIL WE HIRED KEN DORSEY. Yes, that’s right. Ken Dorsey spent multiple years on the sideline as the guy to relay information from Daboll and help keep Josh grounded. 
 

When the Bills hired quarterbacks coach Ken Dorsey in 2019, Daboll was finally able to relinquish control and move to the booth. And Buffalo’s offense has reaped the rewards.

 

I actually really liked Daboll when he was here, but the rose colored glasses people are wearing with the guy now that he’s gone are weird. 
 

https://theathletic.com/2324003/2021/01/15/brian-daboll-bills-coaching/?source=user_shared_article

[frostbitmic]

14 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Chiefs and Spagnuolo also play a blitz heavy defense. I’m sure they’ll be looking at Dolphins tape if that’s the matchup in 2 weeks.

I think Spagnuolo will do the opposite of what Miami did.

 

34 points given up and it could've been 50.

[jletha]

18 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Daboll literally had to move up to the booth because he was awful on the sidelines and realized it wasn’t going to work for him or Josh. If you watch Giants games he loses his ***** frequently. Here’s a quote from Derek Anderson around when Daboll moved up to the booth. 
 

For years, Anderson tried to convince Daboll to call games from the booth instead of the sideline. In Anderson’s mind, coaching from that perch had multiple benefits. Daboll could see the game unfold, but it also distanced him from the emotionally charged setting down below. “He’s just such a competitor on the sidelines,” Anderson said. “It’s hard for him to kind of take a break in between series and be like ‘OK, that series is over with. This is what we’re going to do next. When he’s in the box he can’t get too caught up in those emotions. It makes the communication easier and then it keeps him away from the chaos a little bit and keeps his head clear.”

 

The irony about this, is he didn’t really feel comfortable about moving up to the booth UNTIL WE HIRED KEN DORSEY. Yes, that’s right. Ken Dorsey spent multiple years on the sideline as the guy to relay information from Daboll and help keep Josh grounded. 
 

When the Bills hired quarterbacks coach Ken Dorsey in 2019, Daboll was finally able to relinquish control and move to the booth. And Buffalo’s offense has reaped the rewards.

 

I actually really liked Daboll when he was here, but the rose colored glasses people are wearing with the guy now that he’s gone are weird. 
 

https://theathletic.com/2324003/2021/01/15/brian-daboll-bills-coaching/?source=user_shared_article

A lot of it is mis-remembering the last few games + playoff games as the season. The offense is better or as good this year in almost every metric. It looks different but its the same. Many ups and downs. I tend to think its Josh and his 2020 season is more of the abnormal, these last two are normal. But Im also fine with that because we win a lot. 

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Daboll was 100% the calming influence that encouraged Josh the value of the checkdown (years 3 & 4), to go with the occassional bomb. Now sugar Josh & Dorsey are all in on fly route city.  Never saw Brady, Montana or Manning rely on this strategy. It's super fun and exciting to watch but in order to win a SB and minimize turnovers,  it's not sustainable. 

 

This is a bit of an overreaction to one game that was dictating to us to throw deep or hope our WRs not named Diggs can get separation on the quick stuff - do we have more videos of perhaps on the downs Josh was sacked no one had separation?

 

 

Plus, the other QBs could not throw the ball 80 yards.   

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

there was zero reason to launch the ball 50 yards on low percentage tosses when blitzed or when Josh is running around on a broken play.   every play should have short, medium, and long concepts.    i dont know if it was Josh and his inner hero ball coming out again,  but it sucked.    Josh could have run much more than he did yesterday,  but for some reason was launching bombs all over the place.

 

Yeah here's a great example of the kind of play you're referring to:

 

 

It's 3rd and long. Davis is WIDE open in the flat and could probably make it to the 1st down marker. Instead Allen throws a low percentage deep pass to another WR in single coverage.

 

I assume you think he made the incorrect throw here?

[Nextmanup]

11 minutes ago, jletha said:

A lot of it is mis-remembering the last few games + playoff games as the season. The offense is better or as good this year in almost every metric. It looks different but its the same. Many ups and downs. I tend to think its Josh and his 2020 season is more of the abnormal, these last two are normal. But Im also fine with that because we win a lot. 

We are also still learning the Josh has a LOT of ups and downs to his play. 

 

He's not going to be like Brady or Rodgers or Bries in their primes.  With Josh, you have to take the good and the bad, it's absolutely a part of who he is.

And then you just hope the good outweighs the bad enough to win a championship.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

49 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Simply not true. Miami has the players on defense to do this and it's been their defensive scheme for a few years now. The Chiefs would get their backsides handed to them if they tried this.😂 Their secondary would be toast going one on one vs the Bills WRs. I remember they left Gabe and Diggs one on one a couple times in KC earlier this year and it resulted in tds.

 

 Please God, I beg of you, please let KC run the zero blitze scheme against us as often as Miami does. Pretty please with sugar on top.😂😂

 

 

 

 

 

You’ll probably get a lot of eye rolls on this one because nobody wants to give division rivals any credit but there’s definitely truth to it.  Miami and pit are both real tough defenses up front and people were talkin like either opponent would’ve been a walk in the park:  Miami is loaded with talent on the defensive side they have just been underperforming in the secondary most of the year despite Kohou lookin like a steal.

 

Xavien Howard played most of the season banged up 

 

chiefs whole front 7 is pretty much one guy…miamis got 3 guys that can hurt you rushing the passer 

[Brand J]

13 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

I think Spagnuolo will do the opposite of what Miami did.

 

34 points given up and it could've been 50.

Well, I said before it was effective in getting sacks (7), turnovers (3), and a defensive TD. The Bills don’t score 34 if the opposing offense can sustain drives and we know the Chiefs can. If you tell Spags he can get the sacks and turnovers Miami produced I guarantee he’d take them. You can play a boom or bust defense if your offense is a threat every time they touch the ball. 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah here's a great example of the kind of play you're referring to:

 

 

It's 3rd and long. Davis is WIDE open in the flat and could probably make it to the 1st down marker. Instead Allen throws a low percentage deep pass to another WR in single coverage.

 

I assume you think he made the incorrect throw here?

I said this earlier but the lower percentage/higher variance deep throws, the resultant low comp% and the potential INTs, the general high risk high reward ethos...these are features of the offense not bugs.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah here's a great example of the kind of play you're referring to:

 

 

It's 3rd and long. Davis is WIDE open in the flat and could probably make it to the 1st down marker. Instead Allen throws a low percentage deep pass to another WR in single coverage.

 

I assume you think he made the incorrect throw here?

I didn’t realize this was sarcasm at first and almost went off haha.  People are carrying over their criticism from previous games and it just isn’t relevant to this Miami game imo.  If you’ve got a guy in single coverage with two steps on his man,  you throw him the ball every single time.  I don’t care what team/qb you’re talking about.  What are the odds you put together 60 yards of dink and dunk plays against that Miami front 7 compared to the odds of hitting a pass like that. 
 

that’s a presnap read/automatic throw every time and Miami was giving that to us all game…we just didn’t hit on enough of them to make it comfortable.  Game plan wise that was a 20+ point win but the execution was terrible with drops/overthrows/receivers losing the ball in the air/receivers getting hit with the ball and it getting picked.  Things could’ve gone wrong on underneath throws just as easily and the reward is nowhere near as high 

[Saxum]

2 hours ago, billykay said:

Watch it. No politics allowed.

 

If anyone is injecting politics it is you.

 

Bills fans with pitchforks and torches has nothing to do with politics.

Some just want to tear down and rebuild the Bills no matter what they do whether it is build a new stadium without a dome, sign or not sign a player, etc. 

 

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

5 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

You’ll probably get a lot of eye rolls on this one because nobody wants to give division rivals any credit but there’s definitely truth to it.  Miami and pit are both real tough defenses up front and people were talkin like either opponent would’ve been a walk in the park:  Miami is loaded with talent on the defensive side they have just been underperforming in the secondary most of the year despite Kohou lookin like a steal.

 

Xavien Howard played most of the season banged up 

 

chiefs whole front 7 is pretty much one guy…miamis got 3 guys that can hurt you rushing the passer 

 

 I agree. That's why I was begging for KC to try and play Miami's scheme all game. I think we would put up more than we did yesterday. Especially if it's the AFCCG, where we would be playing in a Dome stadium. 

 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I said this earlier but the lower percentage/higher variance deep throws, the resultant low comp% and the potential INTs, the general high risk high reward ethos...these are features of the offense not bugs.

Is it even high risk if you’re going to err on the side of overthrows like we were doing?  Throwing short passes in a collapsing pocket is just as dangerous if not more so. 
 

I mean if we were talking about jump balls down the field that’s a different story,  but our receivers were winning one on ones down the sideline all game long