Question for OC Dorsey

[PayDaBill$]

Need to dial down the hero ball with a few more conservative plays. TE, slants, outs - quick hitters & check down every once in awhile.  Run motor & Cook (who is going to break something given enough opportunities).
We’ll still get our points but probably less TO’s in the process.

 

The back to back HR chucks were ridiculous.  That particular series was amateurish.

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[Epstein's Mother]

My takeaway from all of this is...

 

there's plenty of blame to go around for this win.

[Coach Tuesday]

13 hours ago, Simon said:

 

That was bothering me too.

I do think the depth the Phish secondary was setting up in ahd something to do with that.

They were still available with some minor tweaking though.

 

This is a great post.

I hated the fact that the turnover came on first down but at that point in the game they were having really good success finding openings in the secondary on 1st downs and I get what he was trying to do on that particular down. I wonder what Josh passed up to chuck that prayer instead; I'd bet that one of his first two options was available and he couldn't help himself

 

So apparently the play was designed to go to Knox, with some good underneath options if Knox wasn't available.  That's all per the Twitterverse so who knows but it sounds right.  Brown apparently was running a clearout route, which would explain why he did not expect the ball.  If that's all true, I'm not sure what Dorsey is supposed to do.  He can't keep all the routes short because that will crowd the backfield.  Allen simply refuses to play within the structure of the offense despite it hurting the team multiple times this season.  He gives the obligatory "I made some bad decisions and I'll learn from it" quip at the end of the game but the words ring hollow at this point - he's just not yet a grownup.  I love the guy, he's my favorite athlete to root for, ever, but he is not a grownup.  As I said elsewhere, it may take him having to stew an entire offseason about throwing away a playoff game for him to change his ways.  Last year's AFCCG was the opposite - the hero ball worked, the post-season narrative was all about how if Josh got the ball back, he would've scored again - the NFL even changed the rules to make sure Josh will get the ball back next time.  If anything it added kerosene to the fire.  At this point I just don't know what will get him to change.  Whatever it is, Dorsey isn't up to it - he treats Dorsey like a substitute teacher.

[T master]

13 hours ago, Einstein said:

His offense scored 34 points despite having 3 turnovers.

Solid.

 

Agree but he has so much more to work with & just because Josh can throw it 60 yds on a rope doesn't mean he has to do it every other play he has so many weapons why not use them more ?

 

If he did the score could be 50+ every game & this week he will need to do some things that they haven't put on tape this season to win because the Bengals D isn't bad at all & the Bills D better be prepared because this game can be a statement game either way for or against the Bills .

 

And i would rather it be for the Bills than the alternative ! GO BILLS !!! 

Edited January 16, 2023 by T master

[JohnNord]

14 hours ago, JMM said:

Are you familiar with the following concepts: RB screen, TE screen, bubble screen, draw, delayed draw, quick slant, quick out, go and stop, etc.  I'm no OC, but it seems to me that there are experts in the NFL that believe these are effective concepts against cover zero. Thanks for your attention.  Now...back to calling your seven step drop duo go routes.....

There has to be a reason why the Bills never run screens.  It wasn’t just Dorsey, they didn’t run many with Daboll last season either. 

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

He's sending all WRs on deeper routes every play. That's not Josh's fault either. That's why Allen is a lot more turnover prone this season. Every play has 4 WRs running routes that are 20 or more yards up the field. That's on Dorsey, not Allen

He isn't really. Allen has check downs on every play that he can go to.

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

There has to be a reason why the Bills never run screens.  It wasn’t just Dorsey, they didn’t run many with Daboll last season either. 

 

They lack athletic linemen to execute those plays.  Morse is the only one who can move around in space well.  The rest of the o-line are plodders and maulers.  It's a symptom of competing goals - McD wants to be able to power-run and they've brought on bigger linemen throughout Beane's tenure.  But that's not a scheme that meshes well with what Josh is able to do.

[Jauronimo]

13 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Romo did point out that Brown let up on the route. Seems to be lots of miscommunications like that. 

Brown had inside leverage on the DB and then went outside.  Allen threw the ball to the inside.  Not sure who made the mistake on that play.

[JohnNord]

4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

They lack athletic linemen to execute those plays.  Morse is the only one who can move around in space well.  The rest of the o-line are plodders and maulers.  It's a symptom of competing goals - McD wants to be able to power-run and they've brought on bigger linemen throughout Beane's tenure.  But that's not a scheme that meshes well with what Josh is able to do.

I’m not so sure that’s true.
 

Brown has an excelled RAS score and players like Bates and Dawkins should be able to get out in space.  I just don’t know what the issue is…

[Logic]

There were multiple receivers open underneath throughout the game and Allen chose not to throw to them.

If you have the means to go back and watch yesterday's game, particularly the 3rd and 4th quarters, where everyone was screaming about the go routes and whatnot...I suggest you do it. 

There were open receivers underneath. Knox, Singletary, Cook, Morris, Beasley, sometimes Diggs. There was always a short outlet option, and that option was quite open more often than not.

Josh chose not to go to those options. He chose to push it downfield, over and over. 

Don't get me wrong -- Dorsey really frustrates me at times. I, too, would like to see various changes to the offense. Still, the complete refusal of some to hold our quarterback accountable for some of these periods of offensive struggle infuriates me. I know that pushing the ball downfield is who Josh Allen IS and always will be, but when you watch the game back and see multiple options underneath, only to see Josh repeatedly choose the low percentage deep shot even when it's situationally not intelligent to do so...it doesn't hold water with me to just blame Dorsey for all of it.

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, Logic said:

There were multiple receivers open underneath throughout the game and Allen chose not to throw to them.

If you have the means to go back and watch yesterday's game, particularly the 3rd and 4th quarters, where everyone was screaming about the go routes and whatnot...I suggest you do it. 

There were open receivers underneath. Knox, Singletary, Cook, Morris, Beasley, sometimes Diggs. There was always a short outlet option, and that option was quite open more often than not.

Josh chose not to go to those options. He chose to push it downfield, over and over. 

Don't get me wrong -- Dorsey really frustrates me at times. I, too, would like to see various changes to the offense. Still, the complete refusal of some to hold our quarterback accountable for some of these periods of offensive struggle infuriates me. I know that pushing the ball downfield is who Josh Allen IS and always will be, but when you watch the game back and see multiple options underneath, only to see Josh repeatedly choose the low percentage deep shot even when it's situationally not intelligent to do so...it doesn't hold water with me to just blame Dorsey for all of it.

34 points

[Coach Tuesday]

26 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’m not so sure that’s true.
 

Brown has an excelled RAS score and players like Bates and Dawkins should be able to get out in space.  I just don’t know what the issue is…

 

I do not understand how Brown logged that RAS score during the predraft process.  I mean, I don't dispute that he achieved it, but when you watch him play his feet are heavy and slow.  He is an enigma to me - he does not play his position like a high-level athlete.

[Logic]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

34 points

What's your point? I am aware of how many points the Bills scored yesterday. 

My post is in response to the vast swaths of Bills fans blaming Dorsey for any and all offensive struggles. 

My response is that Allen bears his share of the blame, too. 



 

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

34 points

Perfect game! I’ll tell Josh.

[Shemp]

Seems like Josh is regressing.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

15 hours ago, Beast said:

If Shakir was able to hang onto a ball and Josh was a little more accurate on those deep balls the Bills would have hung a 50 burger on the Fish.

 

 

At least…people are so used to teams selling out to stop the deep ball but Miami did the opposite.  Had to take the shots in single coverage on the outside because receivers in the middle of the field were getting mauled.  

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, Logic said:

What's your point? I am aware of how many points the Bills scored yesterday. 

My post is in response to the vast swaths of Bills fans blaming Dorsey for any and all offensive struggles. 

My response is that Allen bears his share of the blame, too. 



 

The point is the struggles are imaginary

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

44 minutes ago, Logic said:

There were multiple receivers open underneath throughout the game and Allen chose not to throw to them.

If you have the means to go back and watch yesterday's game, particularly the 3rd and 4th quarters, where everyone was screaming about the go routes and whatnot...I suggest you do it. 

There were open receivers underneath. Knox, Singletary, Cook, Morris, Beasley, sometimes Diggs. There was always a short outlet option, and that option was quite open more often than not.

Josh chose not to go to those options. He chose to push it downfield, over and over. 

Don't get me wrong -- Dorsey really frustrates me at times. I, too, would like to see various changes to the offense. Still, the complete refusal of some to hold our quarterback accountable for some of these periods of offensive struggle infuriates me. I know that pushing the ball downfield is who Josh Allen IS and always will be, but when you watch the game back and see multiple options underneath, only to see Josh repeatedly choose the low percentage deep shot even when it's situationally not intelligent to do so...it doesn't hold water with me to just blame Dorsey for all of it.

I really didn’t see a lot of open underneath receivers honestly…and on a few plays where there were it was a situation where gabe Davis had two steps against single coverage or shakir was wide open for a 50 yard gain or something like that.  If you don’t want your qb taking those shots he shouldn’t be starting.

He certainly has had games where he passed up underneath attempts for risky deep throws before but the game yesterday was not a good example of that 

 

it was really the short throw to Beasley that sunk his game…a deep int is not the end of the world it’s pretty similar to a punt. 
 

miami was very handsy on all the routes and it was effecting the underneath receivers the most 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Shemp]

The Dolphins blitzed on 52% of their plays yesterday. Seven sacks with Allen's frequent deep dropbacks. Bills need to quicken the release of the ball to counter the blitz, which may be the blueprint of future playoff game defenses against the Bills since it was so successful against him yesterday.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

12 minutes ago, Blah Blah said:

The Dolphins blitzed on 52% of their plays yesterday. Seven sacks with Allen's frequent deep dropbacks. Bills need to quicken the release of the ball to counter the blitz, which may be the blueprint of future playoff game defenses against the Bills since it was so successful against him yesterday.

They were also jamming all the receivers (cough cough holding) and giving the corners little to no help over the top.  We had the right gameplan to win just one very unlucky turnover(ironically on a short throw) and that fumble td. People just don’t like it because we’ve thrown deep when we didn’t really need to in prior games so they’re not seeing this one objectively 

 

Absolutely no one will try to duplicate this dolphins game plan…they had to go for broke because they were such a big underdog.  If we hit on a couple more of those wide open deep balls, we probably drop 60 that game.  I don’t think anyone could duplicate it even if they wanted to…Miami has much better pass rushers than cincy or kc currently. 
 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan