Isaiah Hodgins Bills made big mistake

[djp14150]

2 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

My memory is that the  Bills cut him from the 53, perhaps hoping to put him back on the PS.  But, the Giants swooped in at that point and signed him.  The Bills got to cute playing the practice squad resigning game and lost Hodgkins.  Anyhow, comment about is correct.  He wouldn't be seeing the field, all the old slow guys got those opportunities

He was on bills PS and pulled by Giants because of their lack of WRs.

 

thr thing is he was behind Davis and Diggs.  He wasn’t a slot receiver. He was a ST gunner/ returner.

 

buffalo would dress those 2 and a slot receiver and another one. Preferably one with the high speed which he diesnt have.

 

if Davis/ Diggs got injured he might have gotten a shot.

 

If they keep him on the roster, who do they kick off? On offense fir him?

 

in a roster set up 

 

7 ST players— P,K,LS, Returner, gunner, 2 captains 

23 D. ..9 DL, 5/6 LB, 8/9 DB

21 O…2 QB, 9 OL, 4 WR, 3 RB, 2 TE. 1 RB/WR/TE

2 rookie spots or injury replacement spots

 

[djp14150]

12 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

It's clear that Isaiah Hodgins can be an effective WR in the NFL when the ball is thrown his way. 

The real question is whether he was going to be a difference-maker on THIS roster.  Was HE the guy that was going to put this offense over the top?  I'm just not seeing it.

 

As a big outside receiver, is he better than Gabe Davis?  I don't see any evidence of that.

In practice, Hodgins was never able to surpass Jake Kumerow on the depth chart.  Seeing how Kumerow has also proven himself as a capable depth receiver AND solid special-teams contributor, that really isn't surprising.

 

So in terms of the actual position he plays, Hodgins was our #4 outside receiver behind Stefon Diggs, Davis and Hodgins.  When you factor in the slot guys (Isaiah McKenzie, Jamison Crowder and Khalil Shakir), he was probably the #7 guy most of the season.  Now that we've added John Brown as a speed threat and Cole Beasley, you are probably talking about him being the #8-9 guy.

 

I know people want to call this a miss by Brandon Beane, but I'm just not seeing how Hodgins ever gets playing time in this offense.

 

EDIT:

 

I will add that Hodgins was purged from our roster during the time we were dealing with crazy injuries everywhere.  So not only was he losing the numbers game in the WR rotation, the Bills were also forced to stash extra corners, safeties and linemen to navigate through it all.  It was pretty hard to justify protecting him with an active roster spot, when we were down to our third string defensive backs and needed to bring in Xavier Rhodes/Dean Marlowe.

I agree with most of what you say

 

Kummerow did ST he seemed to not do it. Kumerow got a ST roster spot.

 

the way I look at the roster is you have the 3 standard ST slots of kicker, punter, and long snapper. You also have a few others like 2 captains for the units ( punt, FG, KO, punt) and a returner and gunner.

 

as for slot. McKenzie and crowder are them. I see Shakir as a possible outside option…not a pure slot.

 

you develop a very good team your hotyom level depth is usually better which is why good teams tend to get focused on in UFA signings and raiding PS.

 

Another factor is familiarity. Giants gm was under Beane and coach was OC in buffalo so they knew much more about him than other teams.

 

 

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Back that thought up a little bit.  "Why wasn't he given an opportunity?"

 

Ask yourself what role Hodgins would fill on our team.  He's a big-bodied outside WR, correct?  That would be the role Gabe Davis holds.

 

 

 

Yeah, it was always a tough make for Hodges. But there were definitely a lot of folks at the time that wanted Hodges over Kumerow at the time. So this isn't reactionary after the fact with benefit of hindsight for many.

 

It all came down to Hodges vs. Kumerow. That was the roster spot up for grabs. On paper at the time deciding the final 53 made sense. Nobody thought Davis and McKenzie would have down years like they have had. Davis was poised for a monster breakout year and McKenzie was having a great camp and pre-season and looked like a strong breakout candidate as well. Shakir obviously had a spot as well. Those three players plus Diggs were locks. One could also debate Crowder but the team wanted a veteran slot guy I think.

 

In hindsight the decision was horrendous as both Crowder and Kumerow would go on to miss the majority of the season and Davis and McKenzie would greatly underperform to expectations. Not sure if there is a lesson learned here or not. If so, i guess the lesson is don't over value special teams and don't assume players are going to take that next step. The more promising contributors and playmakers you have the better in case of injury or underperformance. 

[cba fan]

22 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Fans knew Hodgins could play though. I don’t recall what the fan sentiment was on Teller when he was here. Was he a guy that just turned a corner once he left? 

yes he was avg at best on Bills and light went on in Cleveland.

 

similar light went on for Kyle Williams who sucked his first two years them boom.

Ed Oliver too.

 

hard to predict. it is a guessing game IE: do you have time to wait depending on team situation IE: rebuild years 1, 2, or 3, playoff mode, SB challenger mode. Lots of factors and that's why good GM's are hard to find and they all make mistakes.

Edited January 16, 2023 by cba fan

[Pete]

It’s not easy to make a Bills roster.  Kudos to Beane.  Cuts were toughest in Bills history.  Me and many of us were big Hodgins and Blackshear fans.  Both are having some success in NFL.   But it’s a numbers game.  What WR and RB are you going to cut?

 

Kumerow is a core special team player on every unit.

 

Taiwan is one of better special team players in NFL

 

neither Hodgins or Blackshear offer special teams upside.  Beane stated that if a player wasn’t starting, the roster spots are decided by what they bring to special teams.  So logic states you keep Kumerow and Taiwan.  

Hindsight = bad move because you didn’t have foresight 

[Billzgobowlin]

Hodgins isn't nearly as good as Gabe Davis and he isn't going to take snaps from Diggs.  He also isn't the type of player to replace Mckenzies skill talent.  I like the dude but he has many more opportunities with the Giants.

[1st&ten]

22 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

The powers that be couldn’t see beyond special teams, and ending up losing a young WR  with size and a lot of potential. 

I liked him also but he seemed to be injured a lot when he was here & there reports that he was slow. Well slow or not Dabol knows how to scheme him open. Not sure Dorsey could use him properly. Also all glory is fleeting--defenses will start to pay more attention to him as opposed to the other receivers.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

I don’t think hodgins is any better than kumerow and crowder they both just happened to get hurt 

[Buftex]

So were the fans who wanted Zay Jones "gone" right as well?

Edited January 16, 2023 by Buftex

[1st&ten]

27 minutes ago, Pete said:

It’s not easy to make a Bills roster.  Kudos to Beane.  Cuts were toughest in Bills history.  Me and many of us were big Hodgins and Blackshear fans.  Both are having some success in NFL.   But it’s a numbers game.  What WR and RB are you going to cut?

 

Kumerow is a core special team player on every unit.

 

Taiwan is one of better special team players in NFL

 

neither Hodgins or Blackshear offer special teams upside.  Beane stated that if a player wasn’t starting, the roster spots are decided by what they bring to special teams.  So logic states you keep Kumerow and Taiwan.  

Hindsight = bad move because you didn’t have foresight 

Very insightful post. I was very disappointed when we lost Blackshear but now that James Cook is coming on I feel better.

[Manther]

17 hours ago, Beast said:

Ummmm…he couldn’t stay healthy? Yes, ideally it would be great to have him but the Bills did nothing wrong here.

I think he was healthy.  I think we didn't have a roster spot for him since he didn't play STs.  Therefore we stashed him as injured.

 

Its good for him to have an opportunity he was not getting here.  I do wish he was still on the team though.

[Thurman#1]

On 1/16/2023 at 9:21 AM, Chicagobills said:

This dude can play and we all knew it. Why wasn’t he given an opportunity?

 

 

He looks OK. Not special, but OK.

 

 

On 1/16/2023 at 9:36 AM, H2o said:

Hodgins truly has made the most of his opportunity. I'm happy for the guy. He wouldn't have been seeing the same usage here though. He's in a great spot where he can be featured. Good for him, Dabs, and the G-men

 

 

Yeah, this exactly.

[LeGOATski]

The only one to blame for Isaiah Hodgins not getting enough opportunities on the Bills is Isaiah Hodgins. People who are deriding the Bills staff for this, of all things, are ridiculous.

[Dopey]

13 hours ago, Buftex said:

So were the fans who wanted Zay Jones "gone" right as well?

I always felt that was a mistake. Duke was horrible. A lot of people here wanted Duke over Zay. Probably some that feel Hodgins is good enough to start here. He isn’t. 

[Beck Water]

22 hours ago, djp14150 said:

He was on bills PS and pulled by Giants because of their lack of WRs.

 

No, this isn't right.  He was signed to the Bills 53-man roster on October 8, after we lost McKenzie to concussion and Crowder to a broken leg during the Ravens game.  We were already without Kumerow to a high-ankle sprain during the Dolphins game, so we called up Tanner Gentry.    At the same time, we signed Ja'Marcus Ingram (DB) and elevated Joe Giles-Harris due to injuries at DB and LB.  It was a really tough stretch for injuries and a roster "numbers game.

 

Hodgins stayed on the 53-man roster until 11/1, when we had to make roster moves to make room for Dean Marlowe (trade) and Tre White (end of his 21-day window to return from PUP. 

 

The problem was, at that point Spencer Brown had been out the previous week, was questionable and in fact did not play against the Jets; Mitch Morse was on injury report with an elbow; Matt Milano had an oblique injury, was questionable, and did not play; Jordan Poyer was "out" with an elbow injury; and Tre White was not going to play.  So we weren't able to cut someone on OL, LB, or DB and still assure having enough players to field at those positions.

 

I'm sure Beane didn't want to cut Hodgins, but at the time Kumerow was back, had played the previous week, and played that week and the following week before landing on IR, so in terms of numbers at different positions on the roster, it made sense.  I know people here don't value Kumerow as a WR and don't value ST, but Beane does both.  If he'd had a "crystal ball" to know Kumerow would only make it two more games before landing on IR, I'm sure he'd have kept Hodgins.

 

BTW we cut Brandin Bryant the same day as Hodgins and he was picked up by the Texans.  Pretty sure Beane didn't like that either, but they released him a month later and Beane took him back. 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

The only one to blame for Isaiah Hodgins not getting enough opportunities on the Bills is Isaiah Hodgins. People who are deriding the Bills staff for this, of all things, are ridiculous.

 

I'm pretty sure Hodgins would have seen playing time week 11 and week 12 when we were calling up Tanner Gentry and giving him snaps because Kumerow went on IR.  Pretty sure Beane would rather have had Hodgins then. 

 

But the people lambasting the FO for cutting Hodgins when the Bills did, don't look at the entire roster picture the way Beane has to, and failed to place an order for an infalliable Crystal Ball to be installed in Beane's office.

 

I have not been watching the Giants too much.  But Hodgins was on the field more than half the snaps since they signed him, and was only getting 3-4 targets per game for 36 ypg until the first Giants-Minnesota game, when he went nuts for 8 receptions/90 yds, 2nd game 8 receptions/105 yds.  Overall, he's been getting 8.5 YBC which suggests to me that he's being targeted on intermediate routes that aren't in the Bills passing vocabulary this season, but if they were, they'd be run by Knox, Davis, and Diggs.  So which of those 3 do people want to sit for him?

 

 

[Augie]

30 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

No, this isn't right.  He was signed to the Bills 53-man roster on October 8, after we lost McKenzie to concussion and Crowder to a broken leg during the Ravens game.  We were already without Kumerow to a high-ankle sprain during the Dolphins game, so we called up Tanner Gentry.    At the same time, we signed Ja'Marcus Ingram (DB) and elevated Joe Giles-Harris due to injuries at DB and LB.  It was a really tough stretch for injuries and a roster "numbers game.

 

Hodgins stayed on the 53-man roster until 11/1, when we had to make roster moves to make room for Dean Marlowe (trade) and Tre White (end of his 21-day window to return from PUP. 

 

The problem was, at that point Spencer Brown had been out the previous week, was questionable and in fact did not play against the Jets; Mitch Morse was on injury report with an elbow; Matt Milano had an oblique injury, was questionable, and did not play; Jordan Poyer was "out" with an elbow injury; and Tre White was not going to play.  So we weren't able to cut someone on OL, LB, or DB and still assure having enough players to field at those positions.

 

I'm sure Beane didn't want to cut Hodgins, but at the time Kumerow was back, had played the previous week, and played that week and the following week before landing on IR, so in terms of numbers at different positions on the roster, it made sense.  I know people here don't value Kumerow as a WR and don't value ST, but Beane does both.  If he'd had a "crystal ball" to know Kumerow would only make it two more games before landing on IR, I'm sure he'd have kept Hodgins.

 

BTW we cut Brandin Bryant the same day as Hodgins and he was picked up by the Texans.  Pretty sure Beane didn't like that either, but they released him a month later and Beane took him back. 

 

People see Hodgins make some plays and jump up to complain. It means nothing with the type of context you have provided. It’s not as easy as the folks here like to think. I’ll trust our FO over the gang on a message board. 

[Loyal BF]

Hodgins has had one good game.   Before this weekend, he had ONE game with more than 45 receiving yards.  

 

The Bills did not make a “big mistake” with Hodgins, they drafted him, kept him on the team despite him not being able stay healthy the first two years, and wanted to keep hm on the team when they attempted to send him back to the practice squad.

 

The Giants happened to be suffering several injuries with their WR’s, and, as a group, were well below average.

 

So, the grabbed him on waivers, after Hodgins cleared waivers several time before with no team claiming him.

 

At the start of the year, Hodgins was just not good enough to claim a top six spot in the WR position....which is not surprising when trying to do so on a very deep, Super Bowl contending roster.

 

He had no value on special teams and was just not good enough.  With the Giants below average WR corps, maybe he has found a home.

 

With the Giants success this season, I expect them to make every effort to upgrade their WR’s.  I also suspect that Hodgins will fall down the depth chart when they do that.

[clayboy54]

Hodgins has great hands. That's why we kept him around through injury and roster limitations. Ultimately, his own limitations with regard to speed and ST prowess or lack thereof, cost him any chance to see significant playing time on the Bills. He'd still be on our PS if not for the Giants' opportunity.

Edited January 17, 2023 by clayboy54

[DrDawkinstein]

It was a numbers game, at the time we had too many WRs for roster spots. And frankly, Hodgins had 3 years to break into the starting lineup and couldnt do it. I dont see anyone in our top 3 that he is clearly better than, especially in 2020 and 2021. Even Davis with his step back this year.

 

Cant keep them all. Good problem to have: Beane bringing in more talent than we have room for.