Chargers @ Jaguars Playoff Game Thread (i.e. NOT a Bills thread;-)

[dma0034]

10 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Why would you have given them a zero percent chance prior to the game? That's way out of line with almost every football expert or fan I know. The Vegas line was -2.5 only. 

 

I give them about a 5% chance to win in Arrowhead. That might even be a little high. 

 

 

Young QB playing at the Bengals/Bills/Chiefs seems like a loss to me. I mean upsets happen..... 0% is never realistic. Bills could lose tomorrow to a rookie QB.... I highly doubt it but it's possible. I just thought that Lawrence was going to struggle in his first playoffs (and he did) but now he kind of got the worse he possibly could play out of the way

I will also say that the Jags defense played very well. 20 of those points were put up because of the Lawrence turnovers and muffed punt. They almost completely shut down the Chargers in the 2nd half

[Airseven]

1. Mahomes

2. Burrow

3. Allen

4. Hurts

5. Brady

6. Rodgers

7. Herbert

8. Jackson

9. Lawrence

10. Cousins

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

Really!?! Juju averaged: under 4 catches a game and 32 yards a game in his last year with Pitt.

 

Yes, I mentioned the reason: he was playing hurt.  That's why you got him on a $3.7M prove-it deal.  But he's not a "scrub"; he's a quality NFL WR who went through some bad QB play and played injured, thus he needed a prove-it chance with a proven great QB.    Win win.  Like I said, he ain't Cheetah or Davonte Adams but he's not a scrub.

 

As for MVS, if he's a scrub, why sign him to $30M/3 yr with half guaranteed?  That would be stupid.  KC's personnel office is proven "not stupid".  Answer: he's not a #1 or a #2, but he's a very very good #3, not a scrub.

 

Allen, by the way, is throwing to a 6th year player making just over vet minimum salary and a 4th round pick in his 3rd season.  I wouldn't call them scrubs, but KC fans would have to work hard to make an argument that JSS and MVS aren't proven better.  And he contributes such a high amount of our rushing attack that we go from 9th in the league, to 27th or something like that, when all QB rush yards get taken out of the rushing stats. 

 

That's what Bills fans mean when they say Allen contributes such a high % of our offense.  Mahomes is brilliant, but he just has more tools. 

 

Frankly, our FO made a serious miscalculation that we could replace our previous quality vets (Sanders, Beasley) with said 6th year player and said former 4th round pick, and Jamison Crowder.  Now the FO couldn't predict Crowder's broken leg, but it expected the other guys would take a step that they haven't.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Beck Water

[RocCityRoller]

22 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

"A bunch of scrub WR?"  ROTFL. 

 

Juju Smith Schuster is far from a "scrub WR".  He came close to 1000 yds as a rookie and was pro-bowl with 111 receptions and >1400 yds his 2nd year.  He fell off in 2019 with the likes of Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges throwing to him, and in 2021 when he was injured and only played 5 games, but other than that, he's been what he's been for the Chiefs this year - a 58 yd per game, 77% catch guy.  If he's a scrub and never had it, why did the Chiefs pay him $3.8M on a 1 year "prove you still got it after your injuries" deal?

 

And if Marquez Valdes-Scantling is such a scrub, why did KC offer him 3 years, $30M guaranteed?

 

These guys aren't Davonte Adams or Tyreek Hill, but they're at worst, proven good quality NFL receivers.

 

If he's a scrub, why did KC draft Skyy Moore in the 2nd round?  Kadarius Toney cost next year's 3rd round pick, and of course Mecole Hardmen is a former 2nd round Chiefs pick.  That's a goodly draft pick investment for "a bunch of scrubs.

Thank you.

 

A lot of people felt the replacement of Hill with Schuster and MVS as WR was foolish. JuJu SS dropped in production because Big Ben could no longer hit him deep. JJSS is still a deep threat. MVS is an established NFL WR3. KC did not get scrubs to replace Hill. They got 2 established weapons for less than the cost of one. Smart GM.

 

Hill is a unique WR who helped make Tua look like a legit QB1. What would Hill or Waddle do with Mahomes/ Allen/ Burrow/ Lawrence/ Herbert etc?

Edited January 15, 2023 by RocCityRoller

[NewEra]

24 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

"A bunch of scrub WR?"  ROTFL. 

 

Juju Smith Schuster is far from a "scrub WR".  He came close to 1000 yds as a rookie and was pro-bowl with 111 receptions and >1400 yds his 2nd year.  He fell off in 2019 with the likes of Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges throwing to him, and in 2021 when he was injured and only played 5 games, but other than that, he's been what he's been for the Chiefs this year - a 58 yd per game, 77% catch guy.  If he's a scrub and never had it, why did the Chiefs pay him $3.8M on a 1 year "prove you still got it after your injuries" deal?

 

And if Marquez Valdes-Scantling is such a scrub, why did KC offer him 3 years, $30M guaranteed?

Because they made a huge mistake.  

 

These guys aren't Davonte Adams or Tyreek Hill, but they're at worst, proven good quality NFL receivers.

 

If he's a scrub, why did KC draft Skyy Moore in the 2nd round?  Kadarius Toney cost next year's 3rd round pick, and of course Mecole Hardmen is a former 2nd round Chiefs pick.  That's a goodly draft pick investment for "a bunch of scrubs.

their WRs aren’t “scrubs” but they’re barely a step up from jags, regardless of where they were drafted and how much a team decided to overpay for them,  We’ve selected several jag WRs  in rd 2.  Juju is better than the other guys, definitely a decent target. Hardman has speed but it’s his only plus trait.  He can’t do much else but run fast.  Can be very effective, especially by Andy Reid. I loved Skyy Moore coming out and was hoping we’d draft him.  I felt the same about shakir, similar results to date.  He had trouble getting on the field over justin Watson.  

 

[Boatdrinks]

36 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Could have been the Bills that's why #1 seed is so important. 

The change to only 1 bye week has given the #1 seed outsized importance, to be sure. Make no mistake though, if the Bills had been matched up with JAX this board would be full of consternation and worry. No one would be saying they had a ridiculously easy path etc. 

[Sestak4ever]

Staley is gone after this season. Had multiple chances to put this game away and failed. 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

 

Just a note, if you embed what you write inside what someone else writes, it vanishes when they quote your post to respond.

 

MVS has contributed for the Chiefs, slightly better than what he historically contributed in 4 years as the #3 guy in GB.  He averaged 30 receptions for 538 yds in GB; he had 42 receptions for 687 yds in KC.  So if that's not what they expected, sure, they made a mistake, but since he exceeded his career averages by 30-40%, I would say he delivered what they should have expected. 

 

Juju SS came pretty close to a 1000 yd season and 24 for receiving yards and receptions.  That's not a star, but it's not "barely a step up from JAG" unless you have a peculiar definition of JAG.

[Franco_92]

1 hour ago, billybob71 said:

was exciting 2nd half comeback and Al Michaels sounded like he was ready to fall asleep

Dude was a disgrace. 

[TheFunPolice]

Wow!

 

We put a movie on at halftime so I had no idea what was going on.

 

A bit after the movie ended my wife went on her phone and asked "were we watching the Chargers and Jaguars game?" And I knew immediately what must have happened!

 

Huge moment for Trevor Lawrence in his young career! Also, my sympathies to all 8 Chargers fans.

 

 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Just a note, if you embed what you write inside what someone else writes, it vanishes when they quote your post to respond.

 

MVS has contributed for the Chiefs, slightly better than what he historically contributed in 4 years as the #3 guy in GB.  He averaged 30 receptions for 538 yds in GB; he had 42 receptions for 687 yds in KC.  So if that's not what they expected, sure, they made a mistake, but since he exceeded his career averages by 30-40%, I would say he delivered what they should have expected. 

 

Juju SS came pretty close to a 1000 yd season and 24 for receiving yards and receptions.  That's not a star, but it's not "barely a step up from JAG" unless you have a peculiar definition of JAG.

thanks, I didn’t know that,  
 

3-30m 15m guaranteed for MVS who led the KC WRs in snaps and had 42 catches for 687 and 2 TDs.  i don’t think that’s a good roi in the least. He’s dropped several easy catches (per usual) and I doubt they bring him back next year.  Take the 4M cap hit and move on.  I’d rather have Gabe. Both are a tier above jag imo.  
 

when we traded for Diggs, we didn’t want him to put up similar stats to minny.  We wanted more.  The chiefs paid MVS more than they paid JuJu and JuJu is twice the War MVS is.  And JuJu isn’t that good.  
 

i said juju is better than the other guys, so as not to include him in being a step above jag. 

[Nextmanup]

Just finished watching this game on tape-delay.

 

I am SPEECHLESS that the Chargers--yes, even the Chargers--LOST THIS GAME.

 

The play of the game was the coach's decision to go for 2 extra points on the last TD at the end, setting the score up for a win scenario instead of a tie scenario.

 

That is EXACTLY what he did back a few years ago in the Super Bowl with Philly when they took down Brady, BB, and the Patriots.  PLAY TO WIN.  

 

I hope McDermott is taking notes!

 

 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Just finished watching this game on tape-delay.

 

I am SPEECHLESS that the Chargers--yes, even the Chargers--LOST THIS GAME.

 

The play of the game was the coach's decision to go for 2 extra points on the last TD at the end, setting the score up for a win scenario instead of a tie scenario.

 

That is EXACTLY what he did back a few years ago in the Super Bowl with Philly when they took down Brady, BB, and the Patriots.  PLAY TO WIN.  

 

I hope McDermott is taking notes!

 

 

 

 

Play of the game was the non-call false start. Bosa then loses his mind and gets a penalty which makes them go for two.

 

Also... Only one camera angle on the challenge that cost Chargers a time out. The ball hit the ground.

 

In the bag for Jags and a comeback, no doubt!

[MJS]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Didn’t answer the question? So I will for you. He got those numbers in year 4 a seasoned vet.. not Year 2. He also did it with a heck of a lot more talent around him.  Meanwhile a fairer comparison would be in his first playoff game the Bills choked away a big lead and lost in OT. The Bills were not ready Yet. Allan wasn’t ready yet! It took him another year and season be ready.  
 

I don’t understand why some bills fans feel

so threatened when you say another QB looks damn good and may be special.. like we spit in your soup or something.  Both QBs can be special! Doesn’t make Allen worse or. Anything. 

You brought up the comparison to Josh Allen. It's a dumb comparison so you are getting called out for it. Nobody here is threatened by Trevor Lawrence potentially being a good QB. They are just making fun of a dumb comparison you made.

[AlfaBill]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree but accomplishments matter too. The QB always gets the glory and vice versa. Until Allen gets a ring he will always be Mahomes understudy. 

I see so Trent Dilfer is a cut above Jim Kelly. Got it. 

[StHustle]

3 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

The 49'ers had 5 turnovers against the Cowboys in "The Catch" game.

 
5 to zero???

[JerseyBills]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Going into the 2nd half the Jags were getting 18.5 at -120. Why wouldn't I grab that?

I got 18 and put a little on Jags ML😎🤙

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Airseven said:

3. Mahomes

2. Burrow

1. Allen

4. Hurts

5. Brady

6. Rodgers

7. Herbert

8. Jackson

9. Lawrence

10. Cousins

 

 

Allen is number ONE

 

 

3 hours ago, Sestak4ever said:

Staley is gone after this season. Had multiple chances to put this game away and failed. 

 

Might be gone tomorrow

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yes, I mentioned the reason: he was playing hurt.  That's why you got him on a $3.7M prove-it deal.  But he's not a "scrub"; he's a quality NFL WR who went through some bad QB play and played injured, thus he needed a prove-it chance with a proven great QB.    Win win.  Like I said, he ain't Cheetah or Davonte Adams but he's not a scrub.

 

As for MVS, if he's a scrub, why sign him to $30M/3 yr with half guaranteed?  That would be stupid.  KC's personnel office is proven "not stupid".  Answer: he's not a #1 or a #2, but he's a very very good #3, not a scrub.

 

Allen, by the way, is throwing to a 6th year player making just over vet minimum salary and a 4th round pick in his 3rd season.  I wouldn't call them scrubs, but KC fans would have to work hard to make an argument that JSS and MVS aren't proven better.  And he contributes such a high amount of our rushing attack that we go from 9th in the league, to 27th or something like that, when all QB rush yards get taken out of the rushing stats. 

 

That's what Bills fans mean when they say Allen contributes such a high % of our offense.  Mahomes is brilliant, but he just has more tools. 

 

Frankly, our FO made a serious miscalculation that we could replace our previous quality vets (Sanders, Beasley) with said 6th year player and said former 4th round pick, and Jamison Crowder.  Now the FO couldn't predict Crowder's broken leg, but it expected the other guys would take a step that they haven't.

 

JuJu and MVS are not scrubs. But they are JAGs. There is nothing special about either of them. JuJu is at best a low end #2... MVS is a #3 with poor hands. 

 

The KC receiving corps this year is not very good. It really isn't. The majority of the heavy lifting in that passing game has been Patrick Mahomes who has had an MVP type year. 

 

The response to this will, I know, be "well what about the Bills receiving corps?" I was telling you all that was a major area of concern pre-season when I was still being met with responses about Crowder being a sneaky weapon and how Shakir was gonna have an impact as an outside receiver as a rookie. That was unlikely then and has proved to be such. 

 

Diggs - Knox - Davis

Kelce - JuJu - MVS

 

I don't see a massive difference tbh. If I was ranking those weapons in order I'd go Diggs, Kelce, JuJu, Knox, Davis, MVS. When you look at the production... KC got 2,958 yards and 17 TDs out of their top 3. The Bills got 2,782 and 24 TDs. I think that is pretty close to a wash.

 

Where I DO think KC has an advantage on us is their depth behind that - Hardman, Moore, Toney... McKinnon out of the backfield is superior to McKenzie, Shakir, the ghosts of Beas and Brown and Cook out of the backfield. They also have a better oline and better playcalling.

 

I just think the idea somehow Mahomes has an all star cast he is throwing to is a false narrative. Their top 3 is pretty similar level to the top 3 weapons on the Bills although differently constructed.

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Sleeping on Lawrence is silly. The Jags lack speed to be quick striking. Lawrence did exactly what he needed to, within his own offense to get the job done. Allen and Lawrence have played in the same number of Super Bowls, 0. Lawrence controlled a game that could have gotten away from him. Kirk/ Z Jones/ M Jones/ Engram are not exactly a quick strike offense. Yet those guys erased a 27 point difference.

 

It is ok to admit other players in the league do amazing things, and other coaches rally their teams without disliking your own team.

Exactly correct. My main point was even in the comeback Lawerence wasn't exceptional. His whole team rallied around him and played very well. Sure he deserves credit as well. However, he didn't impress me tonight nor did the Jags team. Not taking anything away from their victory. The Chargers players, coaches, and organization were equally implicit in the meltdown. It's been the Chargers DNA for years and years. Spanos abandoned the fans of SD. Stabbed them in the back sort of speak for the almighty dollar. Living here in SD makes it difficult for me to have compassion for the organization.