Will DeAndre Hopkins be available this offseason?

[Mango]

26 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

There are multiple ways to win a Superbowl.  And there are multiple ways to improve a team.  For a lot of us we would like to see another quality WR.

 

Brady was a high value QB and he had M Evans/C Godwin/A Brown and Gronk.  Stafford had C Kupp and R Woods.

 

And the amount spent on J Allen/Diggs and good WR to be named later will not be $80M (even if that WR is DHop).

 

Saying we need more talent at WR is way different than advocating for 2 x $20M WR's which is what I am specifically speaking towards. I am all for getting more talent in house through under valued players on other rosters and the draft.

 

Robert Woods never had a double digit cap number in LAR. Kupp was $5.3M against the cap when they won the SB. Stafford, Woods, Kupp totaled $31.17M

The total cap hit for Gronk, Evans, Godwin, Brown in 2020 was a whopping $21.218M. Add Brady and it goes up to $46.2M. 

As it stands right now Allen, Diggs, Hopkins would eat $52.95M of cap space. For fun you can add Dawson Knox for better comparison to that TB team and that number jumps to $59.38M

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

However check out the wide receivers Brady had in New England. Outside of Moss and maybe Edelman he won a bunch of Super Bowls with very average wideouts. He had Gronk at TE, but not much in wr’s.

 

I think Wes Welker would want to be counted as a top receiver - he was top 10 in the league for yards for a stretch of years, #2 at one point which is damned impressive from the slot.  Brandon Cooks perhaps.  And take the "maybe" off Edelman.

 

As for Gronk, this is a drum I've been beating when some folks have made the argument that the Chiefs didn't have a #1 WR let alone a #1B.  Leaving aside one's opinion of TikTok Boy (I think he's a solid 2 if not a 1B, my opinion) - Mahomes has Kelce.  A top receiving TE who can run routes inside and out, counts.  Gronkowski was a pioneer at that.

 

For 5 of Brady's superbowl appearances (3 of his wins) he did indeed have Gronkowski, who was a top-10 receiver in YPG for 2 of those years and top-15 2 more.

 

The thing is, NE offense with Brady was built on being a well-oiled machine fed by Tommy.  I don't want to take away from the guys we've mentioned, who were great route runners with strong hands.  But the scheme helped a lot.

 

[Mcg]

40 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

If the Bills pull off a trade for Hopkins....

It's going to be hilarious to look back on some ignorant and bullying comments toward a small twitter account.  Especially if he breaks the news first

 

  Hey if the guy is right I have no problem buying him a 6-pack.

 

 

[boyst]

36 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

If the Bills pull off a trade for Hopkins....

It's going to be hilarious to look back on some ignorant and bullying comments toward a small twitter account.  Especially if he breaks the news first

you won't convincem e they were just spinning yarns and drawing on speculation to make a name for themselves. it happens every year.

[ngbills]

16 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

That is a super broad brush. Big money never hit for all three of those guys in the same season. And when the time came, they got rid of Tyreek. The very first time Mahomes cap hit was over $7.5M was in 2022. 

That is right Mahomes cost less than $7.5M every season until this passed season....where they moved on from Tyreek Hill, their expensive WR. 

This is literally my point. You do not pay all 3 top dollar at the same time. 

If you want to have a conversation around surround Josh with more talent, I am fine with that. Go draft a guy high, pay him big money when Diggs contract is up. But stop pretending everybody is paying multiple receivers $20M to play on the same team with a big QB contract too. 

But it is easy to move money around. Every team does it. If you want to get something done you can do it. The Bills dont have a single guy over $20M this year and only a handful above $10M. They have guys left to restrux. A ton of expiring midlevel contracts they can get out of in the next year or two. Outside of a team like CIN that has young guys and is winning now, most super bowl caliber teams have quite a few very high level contracts. 

[Beck Water]

15 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

fair take. I see it as appearing rich for AZ’s benefit. The deal may be slight overpayment. But, it gets us an Elite WR and keeps him off the Chiefs

 

you moved down only 7 picks

gave a conditional mid rounder (still have a 3rd)

tossed in a late rounder

 

You know, it's a really sad day when fans seem to worry about playing keep-away with a good player vs. getting the players who best suit our specific, Buffalo Bills team needs.  Of all the arguments that can be made for making a move on DHop, "keeps him off the Chiefs" is total weak sauce.

 

Fer cripes sake, the Chiefs went to last year's Superbowl with Kelce as their top receiver, Tiktok Boy as #2, and MVS/Hardman.  In the game itself, Hardman DNP and MVS went down, and Mahomes rolled his shoulders and threw to Jerick McKinnon and Justin Watson (2 for 2, both 1D).

 

Watson was a 5th round never-did-much from TB signed as a FA.

McKinnon was a 30 yr old journeyman on his 3rd team.

 

We have no evidence KC even particularly wants Hopkins, and if they do and don't acquire him, the Magic 8 Ball says "don't worry, we'll find someone"

Edited March 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[Aussie Joe]

24 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Offer them a trade down from 27 to 34

 

& a 2024 Conditional 3rd

-becomes a 2nd if Bills make AFC Champ

-becomes a 1st if Bills make Super Bowl

 

& a 2024 6th

 

 

we should have a 3rd round Comp pick next year which helps ease it a bit for us

 

 

for their new GM, this has the optics of 

1st + 3rd (decent chance higher) + 6th 

ARZ wants a 2nd and 3rd apparently 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

You know, it's a really sad day when fans seem to worry about playing keep-away with a good player vs. getting the players who best suit our specific, Buffalo Bills needs.  Of all the arguments that can be made for making a move on DHop, "keeps him off the Chiefs" is total weak sauce.

 

Fer cripes sake, the Chiefs went to last year's Superbowl with Kelce as their top receiver, Tiktok Boy as #2, and MVS/Hardman.  In the game itself, Hardman DNP and MVS went down, and Mahomes rolled his shoulders and threw to Jerick McKinnon and Justin Watson (2 for 2, both 1D).

 

Watson was a 5th round never-did-much from TB signed as a FA.

McKinnon was a 30 yr old journeyman on his 3rd team.

 

We have no evidence KC even particularly wants Hopkins, and if they do and don't acquire him, the Magic 8 Ball says "don't worry, we'll find someone"

hey if you want to see a 2nd act similar to Randy Moss and Tom Brady when Moss was traded and supposedly “declining” then help yourself. 

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You know, it's a really sad day when fans seem to worry about playing keep-away with a good player vs. getting the players who best suit our specific, Buffalo Bills needs.  Of all the arguments that can be made for making a move on DHop, "keeps him off the Chiefs" is total weak sauce.

 

Fer cripes sake, the Chiefs went to last year's Superbowl with Kelce as their top receiver, Tiktok Boy as #2, and MVS/Hardman.  In the game itself, Hardman DNP and MVS went down, and Mahomes rolled his shoulders and threw to Jerick McKinnon and Justin Watson (2 for 2, both 1D).

 

Watson was a 5th round never-did-much from TB signed as a FA.

McKinnon was a 30 yr old journeyman on his 3rd team.

 

We have no evidence KC even particularly wants Hopkins, and if they do and don't acquire him, the Magic 8 Ball says "don't worry, we'll find someone"

It really doesn't make a lot of sense, we've played them 3 times the last two years and beaten them 2/3 times. Could they beat us, of course they're a good well coached team, though right now their offense does look worse than it was last year let alone the year before, but FA isn't even over let alone the draft.

[nosejob]

22 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

fair take. I see it as appearing rich for AZ’s benefit. The deal may be slight overpayment. But, it gets us an Elite WR and keeps him off the Chiefs

 

you moved down only 7 picks

gave a conditional mid rounder (still have a 3rd)

tossed in a late rounder

Not to mention next year's picks are likely to be very late in the rounds.

[Figster]

52 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

That was Tim Graham that had the significant development take. Not Dov Kleiman

True that

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

If the Bills pull off a trade for Hopkins....

It's going to be hilarious to look back on some ignorant and bullying comments toward a small twitter account.  Especially if he breaks the news first

 

I mean, it is what it is. A bunch of these twitter guys love to court notoriety by throwing stuff at the wall and nodding knowingly when something sticks. 

And yes, if he's right, I'll be happy to show my receipts.

 

But the more we hear, the less I think something will happen with the Bills.  Beane likes to work like an Orca whale, he glides below the surface ripple-free and you hear nothing until BAM there it is.  And the Bills make it clear to other GMs and agents that's a condition.

 

Even the NFL insiders like Schefter and Rapaport say that the Bills are one of the hardest teams to get info on.

 

54 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Agree that this is just gamesmanship. AZ is just trying to get the most possible in trade for DHop. No shame in that. Cap consequences are exactly the same whether they trade or cut him. So they’ll eventually trade him for something. AZ jacked up the price and the interested teams all said they weren’t interested any longer. My prediction is he gets traded to some team a week or so before the draft. 

 

That could be.  My guess would be to some team with a lot of cap space to burn and no clear #1 receiver, where DHop can go and be The Man like he was with Watson.  Chicago, Detroit, or the Panthers would be my 3 guesses, worth whatcha pay for 'em.

 

On 3/28/2023 at 1:50 AM, BillsFanForever19 said:

It's more valid because it's a BILLS Beat Reporter, who is *actually* seriously connected to the team and has covered them for 15 years, outright saying they won't be trading for him. He wouldn't say it like that unless it was confirmed to him.

 

Not a beat reporter from the Texans. Not some rando on Twitter. It's Tim Graham. If you don't know who Tim Graham is and why his word means more than ErieCountyBulls - I don't even know what to say.

 

I know who Tim Graham is, and I agree his word means more than ErieCountyBulls, but to be honest I don't think he's as connected to the team any more as a bunch of others and in truth - he has, in the not too distant past, shown the tendency to seek attention on Twitter.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[Warriorspikes51]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:50 AM, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

It's more valid because it's a BILLS Beat Reporter, who is *actually* seriously connected to the team and has covered them for 15 years, outright saying they won't be trading for him. He wouldn't say it like that unless it was confirmed to him.

 

Not a beat reporter from the Texans. Not some rando on Twitter. It's Tim Graham. If you don't know who Tim Graham is and why his word means more than ErieCountyBulls - I don't even know what to say.

 

As for Beane, he didn't just say he looked into it and they can't talk about him because he's on another team. He made a point to say that Social Media blows things out of proportion. He didn't have to say that and probably wouldn't have if things were serious. That was specifically done to let fans know it wasn't as serious as everyone around here thinks or hopes.

 

Combine all of this with their reported asking price that we were never and will never pay - it's time to face reality. We probably made a call last Wednesday when it was being reported they weren't going to get much and when we found out what the actual price was, that was that.

**** “Barring a significant development”

 

(Such as teams negotiating and compromising to strike a deal)

 

Graham did not say “Bills have no interest in Hopkins” 

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

**** “Barring a significant development”

 

(Such as teams negotiating and compromising to strike a deal)

 

Graham did not say “Bills have no interest in Hopkins” 

He is saying that the significant development is unlikely 

[Bills!Win!]

Hopkins agent just came out and said that “He (Hopkins) will not be traded to Buffalo until the Two Bills Drive Hopkins trade rumor thread reaches 200 pages.”

[BarleyNY]

47 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

That could be.  My guess would be to some team with a lot of cap space to burn and no clear #1 receiver, where DHop can go and be The Man like he was with Watson.  Chicago, Detroit, or the Panthers would be my 3 guesses, worth whatcha pay for 'em.

Maybe, but I think it’s more about AZ maximizing his trade value. Hopkins voided his no trade clause with the PED infraction so he doesn’t have final say in where he goes. He does have some leverage with respect to teams that need to rework his deal however. So AZ either has to send him to a team that will take on his current contract or one he comes to an agreement with on a new one. That’s another possibility here - that his contract demands are too high and are causing teams to back off. 

 

Edited to add:

So which teams that have a big need for a high end WR for the next two seasons AND have sufficient cap space to add his $19.45M cap hit this season? I see none. Spotrac

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Special K]

20 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

Hopkins agent just came out and said that “He (Hopkins) will not be traded to Buffalo until the Two Bills Drive Hopkins trade rumor thread reaches 200 pages.”

 

And if it doesn't get to 200, he will sign with the Chiefs just for spite!!

[cgg716]

2 hours ago, Dopey said:

I guess you’re saying these players are worth $20m because Only Hill is making $20m and that’s after leaving KC. Kelce made $10m last year. Chase is on a rookie contract still and Higgins made $1.4m last year. Point being it’s almost impossible to PAY two wrs $20m each. Ain’t happening. 

I’m saying they focused on offense so they didn’t have to pay 2 guys 20 mil in a super bowl window. We didn’t, so now, if we want a super bowl we have to pay that

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Maybe, but I think it’s more about AZ maximizing his trade value. Hopkins voided his no trade clause with the PED infraction so he doesn’t have final say in where he goes. He does have some leverage with respect to teams that need to rework his deal however. So AZ either has to send him to a team that will take on his current contract or one he comes to an agreement with on a new one. That’s another possibility here - that his contract demands are too high and are causing teams to back off. 

 

I guess my thinking (and I could be off base here) is that AZ can maximize his trade value most easily by trading him to a team that has the cap space to absorb his current contract and negotiate (or not) at their leisure, rather than as a precursor to being able to register the trade.  As you allude, that latter position effectively gives Hopkins strong influence as to whether the deal takes place and possibly even an effective veto, despite voiding his no-trade.

[billsfan89]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

I guess my thinking (and I could be off base here) is that AZ can maximize his trade value most easily by trading him to a team that has the cap space to absorb his current contract and negotiate (or not) at their leisure, rather than as a precursor to being able to register the trade.  As you allude, that latter position effectively gives Hopkins strong influence as to whether the deal takes place and possibly even an effective veto, despite voiding his no-trade.

 

What team can really absorb his contract at this point in free agency? Seriously asking as most teams don't have a lot space.