leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 22 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: The documents were in storage and only discovered because the office was being closed so everything needed to be removed. I sincerely doubt that presidents and VPs routinely intentionally keep documents they’re not supposed to have. There’s little reason for it since they can access their docs through NARA. It seems more likely that the controls around these types of documents need fixing. It’s a problem for Trump because he refused to return them. If he had turned them all over when NARA told him to, he’d have no problem with the law. Even if the tinfoil hat conspiracies about the deep state BS were true and he got charged anyway, he’d skate easily at trial (if it even went that far). As always, Trump’s problem is Trump himself. It’s impossible to derive what happened from a 3 or 4 page news article, but your steadfast belief in your side of the aisle is impressive. If what you say is true, then a deep dive into it will simply prove it out. Personally, I cannot square extremely reckless behavior with “nothing to see here.” It’s an awful lot like the release of social security data on political opponents by the 1/6 committee.
Big Blitz Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 This is the beginning of the Ds escape plan from Brandon. 1
ChiGoose Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: It’s impossible to derive what happened from a 3 or 4 page news article, but your steadfast belief in your side of the aisle is impressive. If what you say is true, then a deep dive into it will simply prove it out. Personally, I cannot square extremely reckless behavior with “nothing to see here.” It’s an awful lot like the release of social security data on political opponents by the 1/6 committee. I just follow the facts. If Biden did what Trump did, then he should be indicted when he leaves office. But there’s no evidence he did.
BillStime Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 I can’t believe Biden didn’t sell them to the Saudis for $2 BILLION 1
Big Blitz Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, BillStime said: I can’t believe Biden didn’t sell them to the Saudis for $2 BILLION But Trump But Trump But Trump. Moron. As if he hasn’t received any scrutiny for anything. How much you pay for eggs today?
BillStime Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 29 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: But Trump But Trump But Trump. Moron. As if he hasn’t received any scrutiny for anything. How much you pay for eggs today? Have you thoughts about buying some female chickens?
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 45 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I just follow the facts. If Biden did what Trump did, then he should be indicted when he leaves office. But there’s no evidence he did. We don’t know that facts. We don’t know who had access, who might have reviewed the files, who Biden might have shared the contents with, what safeguards were in place, the security clearances of those with access, whether or not they might have been compromised, and what the portrait of the multi-year journey might look like when painted. In fact, it’s pure foolishness to speculate that the relative security of Biden’s situation somehow was greater than the Trump scenario. There was apparently no oversight whatsoever for almost 7 years. It will be interesting to see where this goes but the potential for whitewashing this debacle and burying the story is quite high. 1
ChiGoose Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 20 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: We don’t know that facts. We don’t know who had access, who might have reviewed the files, who Biden might have shared the contents with, what safeguards were in place, the security clearances of those with access, whether or not they might have been compromised, and what the portrait of the multi-year journey might look like when painted. In fact, it’s pure foolishness to speculate that the relative security of Biden’s situation somehow was greater than the Trump scenario. There was apparently no oversight whatsoever for almost 7 years. It will be interesting to see where this goes but the potential for whitewashing this debacle and burying the story is quite high. The facts as we have them point to this not being intentional. It’s also being investigated by law enforcement so if the facts change, it might change the most likely story. If it is discovered that Biden knew he had documents illegally and did not immediately turn them over, then he should be indicted when he leaves office. But that is not the most likely scenario given what we know at this point. Honestly, at this point, I don’t think the facts will end up mattering at all. MAGA is just going to believe whatever feels good because their feelings don’t care about the facts. 1 3
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 6 hours ago, JDHillFan said: This is different. Nothing to see here. Move along. It is. Because his own lawyers turned them over. 😆 2
ChiGoose Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 22 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: It is. Because his own lawyers turned them over. 😆 Cooperating with authorities Not cooperating with authorities Trumpers: these are the same thing 2
Warcodered Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 21 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Cooperating with authorities Not cooperating with authorities Trumpers: these are the same thing We wouldn't even know if they hadn't said anything.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 8 hours ago, ChiGoose said: The facts as we have them point to this not being intentional. It’s also being investigated by law enforcement so if the facts change, it might change the most likely story. If it is discovered that Biden knew he had documents illegally and did not immediately turn them over, then he should be indicted when he leaves office. But that is not the most likely scenario given what we know at this point. Honestly, at this point, I don’t think the facts will end up mattering at all. MAGA is just going to believe whatever feels good because their feelings don’t care about the facts. The facts always matter one way or the other, but we have no idea what they are at this point. There’s the legal implications of Biden’s actions. What we have right now is a self-serving version of the story, which rightly should be viewed with cynicism until actual facts are established through an independent investigation. Sadly, we’re unlikely to get that in today’s world. Perhaps sadder still, people arguing about the need for the Trump raid and subsequent handling by DOJ are applauding Biden for turning over documents 6 years after he took them. There are the political implications. Biden was quite clear in his feelings about Trump’s reckless behavior and the threat to national security it posed. This, of course, after an armed raid and the apparent seizure of documents purported to be outside the scope of the raid. Now, we find out that at a minimum, Biden himself engaged in irresponsible and dangerous behavior exposing national secrets. There are the potential family implications to be considered. Biden has made no secret of his love and unquestioned loyalty to his son, and as yet questions about Hunter’s influence peddling remain unanswered. At the same time, the guy was dealing with a crack and hooker problem, and one must wonder whether he had any access to these documents or Joe Biden might have been squeezed to protect him. Finally, there’s the issue of public trust in our institutions problem. In the past few years, you’ve had Hillary Clinton playing fast and loose with top secret information and Obama, Comey et al calling her extremely reckless. You’ve got Trump removing confidential information and a swat style raid to recover, and Biden speaking of his major concerns about the national security risk that posed. Now, we find Biden has a trove of documents lifted from his time in the White House, accessible by God-knows-how-many-people, reported upon “immediately!” 6 or 7 years after they went missing. We agree a full accounting of this matter is necessary. The question is will we get one? 6 hours ago, Warcodered said: We wouldn't even know if they hadn't said anything. Which they didn’t, from at least 2015-late 2022. 1
BillsFanNC Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Imagine still believing, in 2023, that reporting a story that will reflect negatively on a democrat president will provide anything remotely close to the facts. 2
BillsFanNC Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 29 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Imagine still believing, in 2023, that reporting a story that will reflect negatively on a democrat president will provide anything remotely close to the facts. 1
Westside Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 13 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Intent. You’re missing intent. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. 10 hours ago, ChiGoose said: The facts as we have them point to this not being intentional. It’s also being investigated by law enforcement so if the facts change, it might change the most likely story. If it is discovered that Biden knew he had documents illegally and did not immediately turn them over, then he should be indicted when he leaves office. But that is not the most likely scenario given what we know at this point. Honestly, at this point, I don’t think the facts will end up mattering at all. MAGA is just going to believe whatever feels good because their feelings don’t care about the facts. Lol, says the master of feelz!!! You do love to project don’t you?
Doc Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 14 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Just came here expecting to see the usual complete lack of understanding of facts, how things work, and what the law is and I was not disappointed. Don’t ever change, PPP. Sure that's why you came here. 13 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Intent. You’re missing intent. Yup. So just like with Hilly's situation, this goes "bye bye" for both. Satisfied or was only Trump's bad? (let me guess... )
wnyguy Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 11 hours ago, Big Blitz said: But Trump But Trump But Trump. Moron. As if he hasn’t received any scrutiny for anything. How much you pay for eggs today? Best just to shun Billsy, he's a freakin' moron. 1
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