Biden is Mentally Fit Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 This is different. Nothing to see here. Move along. 2
ChiGoose Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Just came here expecting to see the usual complete lack of understanding of facts, how things work, and what the law is and I was not disappointed. Don’t ever change, PPP. 1
ChiGoose Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Wacka said: Just look in the mirror, Chi. Just read the actual facts instead of jumping to ridiculous conclusions. A feat basically impossible for members of this board. 2
Biden is Mentally Fit Posted January 10, 2023 Author Posted January 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Just came here expecting to see the usual complete lack of understanding of facts, how things work, and what the law is and I was not disappointed. Don’t ever change, PPP. Maybe you would be kind enough to enlighten us on what the law is regarding the compartmentalization of classified information. If you don’t mind maybe you could include a discussion of Hillary’s handling of such. Based on your snotty post, I’m sure you have plenty of experience on the matter. 1
Big Blitz Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 I choose to take Biden’s word for it that there was nothing nefarious here - the same benefit of the doubt we all gave Trump on January 6th that he didn’t start a coup. No reason to jump to conclusions - just like we don’t when Trump news breaks and do things like accuse him of stealing nuclear secrets. 1 1
ChiGoose Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, JDHillFan said: Maybe you would be kind enough to enlighten us on what the law is regarding the compartmentalization of classified information. If you don’t mind maybe you could include a discussion of Hillary’s handling of such. Based on your snotty post, I’m sure you have plenty of experience on the matter. Person A: 1. Not a government employee 2. Does not have security clearance 3. Possesses government documents 4. Discovers said documents and notifies authorities 5. Returns documents immediately Person B: 1. Not a government employee 2. Does not have security clearance 3. Possesses government documents 4. Is told to return documents but refuses 5. Returns some documents 6. Lies and says all documents were returned when they weren’t 7. Continues to refuse to cooperate Person C : 1. Government employee 2. Has security clearance 3. Possesses government documents they are entitled to 4. Improperly stores documents 5. Turns over storage device when asked and ceases improper storage I don’t think there’s a case out there that matches Person A in which there as an indictment, not to mention a conviction. Generally, if you discover documents you’re not supposed to have and immediately turn them over, they don’t charge you with anything because they want to encourage people in those situations to cooperate. Person B gets indicted. There are cases where the defendant even had the proper security clearance but was still indicted due to their behavior and lack of cooperation once the documents were discovered. Person C is an edge case. You could probably put together a prima facie case but you’re almost assuredly going to lose at trial so it’s really not worth the effort. Negligent possession is almost never prosecuted. Possessing documents you’re not supposed to is bad, especially if they are classified. But people aren’t generally prosecuted unless they either took the documents knowing they weren’t supposed to have them or refuse to cooperate with authorities in returning the documents. Hope that helps! 1
Biden is Mentally Fit Posted January 10, 2023 Author Posted January 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Possessing documents you’re not supposed to is bad, especially if they are classified. Thanks for this bit of brilliance. Who would have thought? Masterclass in vaguery. 🤦♂️
ChiGoose Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, JDHillFan said: Thanks for this bit of brilliance. Who would have thought? Masterclass in vaguery. 🤦♂️ I literally laid out the fact patterns to answer your question. If you just want to ignore it because it’s inconvenient to you, I guess that’s just on you.
Roundybout Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Quote "After the discovery, Biden’s lawyers immediately contacted the National Archives and Records Administration, which started looking into the matter, the source said. Biden’s team cooperated with NARA, which later came to view the situation as a mistake due to lack of safeguards for documents, the source said." Yawn. 1
BillStime Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Doc said: "But that's different." On 8/13/2022 at 10:25 PM, Doc said: Good luck proving intent. On 8/24/2022 at 7:23 PM, Doc said: Prove he did something with the alleged classified information or prove intent. The standard has been set. On 11/17/2022 at 6:10 PM, Doc said: If the reason to indict him is just that and there's no intent, much less use of the material for personal gain, it's a pretty lame charge. On 8/13/2022 at 9:51 AM, Doc said: Proving intent is similarly where it will fail against Trump. Assuming it even gets that far. On 8/22/2022 at 10:03 PM, Doc said: You can say what you want until the cows come home. Just like with Hilly, you'll have to prove he did something nefarious with them or at least prove intent. Good luck with that.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 23 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Just read the actual facts instead of jumping to ridiculous conclusions. A feat basically impossible for members of this board. I read the facts. Turns out when Biden left office, he took classified documents when he left. He then co-mingled those documents with personal documents, and for reasons as yet unknown, failed to return them as was his responsibility. Several years then passed, the documents in his possession and accessible by an as-yet-undetermined number of people. Those documents may have been shared with foreign nationals in some quid pro quo, or may have been his ‘get out of jail free’ card in the event the H Biden scandal became an issue. It’s possible of course he was just forgetful and careless, something of a resume booster for dem presidential candidates. We know that the documents were discovered, as if by magic really, by his attorneys, whom one would assume do not have proper credentials to view said documents, combing through personal paperwork with 5 years of dust on them, just two days before a pivotal midterm election with much riding on the line for Team Biden. It doesn’t seem all that complicated to me, Chi. Since we now know he played fast and loose with national security, and this story is 15 years in the making, at a minimum a serious inquiry into his record keeping processes (online and paper) since his time in office should take place. What other documents does he have in his possession, and at what location(s)? I think you have to review email, hard drives, investigate acquaintances etc. You certainly cannot rule out incompetence, but malfeasance must also be considered. I would hope the gloves come off on this one. What an I missing here, Chi?
ChiGoose Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I read the facts. Turns out when Biden left office, he took classified documents when he left. He then co-mingled those documents with personal documents, and for reasons as yet unknown, failed to return them as was his responsibility. Several years then passed, the documents in his possession and accessible by an as-yet-undetermined number of people. Those documents may have been shared with foreign nationals in some quid pro quo, or may have been his ‘get out of jail free’ card in the event the H Biden scandal became an issue. It’s possible of course he was just forgetful and careless, something of a resume booster for dem presidential candidates. We know that the documents were discovered, as if by magic really, by his attorneys, whom one would assume do not have proper credentials to view said documents, combing through personal paperwork with 5 years of dust on them, just two days before a pivotal midterm election with much riding on the line for Team Biden. It doesn’t seem all that complicated to me, Chi. Since we now know he played fast and loose with national security, and this story is 15 years in the making, at a minimum a serious inquiry into his record keeping processes (online and paper) since his time in office should take place. What other documents does he have in his possession, and at what location(s)? I think you have to review email, hard drives, investigate acquaintances etc. You certainly cannot rule out incompetence, but malfeasance must also be considered. I would hope the gloves come off on this one. What an I missing here, Chi? Intent. You’re missing intent. 2
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, ChiGoose said: Intent. You’re missing intent. No, I think I addressed that. It’s possible he was completely clueless on the proper disposition of classified documents, that his attorneys never looked into it, and as a private citizen may be his truth was he could keep whatever he wanted. Unfortunately, there’s a whole lot of ground to cover between 2016 and 2023. It certainly makes sense to know who had access to these documents, from the guy slugging boxes down the hall to admin assistants to maintenance staff to landlords and beyond. I’m not suggesting Biden was trafficking in these secret classified documents, but if he’s being candid and truthful about his actions, as they say,there’s nothing to worry about. I’m also not suggesting he wasn’t trafficking in this intel, we simply don’t know. I also think it’s possible and quite likely that presidents and VPs keep classified documents on a fairly regular basis, and it became an issue for Trump because he was Trump. 1
BillStime Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 If he’s guilty - charge him - who the fk cares? No one is above the law…. But like @Doc told us - you gotta prove intent. 3 2
ChiGoose Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, B-Man said: Same thing Trump defenders said hilarious. Except it would be exceedingly easy to prove intent with Trump since he refused to return the documents when told to and then lied about returning them all when he actually didn’t. A jury would have no problem inferring intent there. 12 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: No, I think I addressed that. It’s possible he was completely clueless on the proper disposition of classified documents, that his attorneys never looked into it, and as a private citizen may be his truth was he could keep whatever he wanted. Unfortunately, there’s a whole lot of ground to cover between 2016 and 2023. It certainly makes sense to know who had access to these documents, from the guy slugging boxes down the hall to admin assistants to maintenance staff to landlords and beyond. I’m not suggesting Biden was trafficking in these secret classified documents, but if he’s being candid and truthful about his actions, as they say,there’s nothing to worry about. I’m also not suggesting he wasn’t trafficking in this intel, we simply don’t know. I also think it’s possible and quite likely that presidents and VPs keep classified documents on a fairly regular basis, and it became an issue for Trump because he was Trump. The documents were in storage and only discovered because the office was being closed so everything needed to be removed. I sincerely doubt that presidents and VPs routinely intentionally keep documents they’re not supposed to have. There’s little reason for it since they can access their docs through NARA. It seems more likely that the controls around these types of documents need fixing. It’s a problem for Trump because he refused to return them. If he had turned them all over when NARA told him to, he’d have no problem with the law. Even if the tinfoil hat conspiracies about the deep state BS were true and he got charged anyway, he’d skate easily at trial (if it even went that far). As always, Trump’s problem is Trump himself. Edited January 10, 2023 by ChiGoose
BillsFanNC Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: Just came here expecting to see the usual complete lack of understanding of facts, how things work, and what the law is and I was not disappointed. Don’t ever change, PPP. Hey chigoose comes to hand wave his way around how this is different. Shocking! Never change chigoose you crazy former republican you Edited January 10, 2023 by BillsFanNC 1 1
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