BillsFanForever19 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I hate Rian Lindell. I f-cking HATE Rian Lindell! The only people I hate more than Rian Lindell are the people who stand up for him and say he's a good kicker. Give me a break! But i'll calm my bitching down because it looks to me like we're finally going to remedy our problems at kicker. Right now, we're rocking out with 3 kickers on our roster. Usually, we only have 2. So that raises a red flag to me. On top of that is all the reports from credible sources that we were chasing Doug Brien, trying to trade up for Mike Nugent, and are close to signing Matt Payne. But if Matt Payne doesn't get signed and Joe Rheem is just fodder, then the Chicago Bears will answer our problem. Let me explain...... The Bears recently signed Doug Brien to a fair deal. He will be their kicker in 2005. This made them release Paul Edinger. He's a good kicker and he would be an upgrade from Lindell. But not only was Edinger a casualty, famed Boise St. kicker Tyler Jones will be as well! The Bears signed him after the draft and now don't have a spot for him. They'll probably let him show his skills in the preseason and then cut him loose. So we have Edinger on the loose and Jones soon to follow in the coming months. But it doesn't stop there! The Bears also signed Nick Novak after the draft. Nick Novak was the kicker from Maryland who was rated higher than Payne and Rheem on draft boards. So the Bears are going to cut loose Edinger, Tyler Jones, and Nick Novak. One of them (Tyler Jones please!) should be our new kicker if Payne doesn't come into town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elcrusho Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 What were Lindell's stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuyInMalta Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I really dont know who our kicker will be in 2005, but I pray its not Lindell. The only time I feel safe with him kicking a FG is when we are up by 21 points and he's making it from our opponent's 5 yard line. Even then, I'm still iffy about his chances. If we go into next season with Lindell as our kicker, he'll cost us 2 games. I guarantee that. Either on a missed FG or by forcing Mularkey to take an unnecessary risk in order to compensate for Lindell's terrible accuracy. I've got my fingers crossed that Lindell will be gone, very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 they already cut him. and i listed his 2004 stats in the OTHER thread about this. its about half way down the 1st page... http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=24497 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 I really dont know who our kicker will be in 2005, but I pray its not Lindell. The only time I feel safe with him kicking a FG is when we are up by 21 points and he's making it from our opponent's 5 yard line. Even then, I'm still iffy about his chances. If we go into next season with Lindell as our kicker, he'll cost us 2 games. I guarantee that. Either on a missed FG or by forcing Mularkey to take an unnecessary risk in order to compensate for Lindell's terrible accuracy. I've got my fingers crossed that Lindell will be gone, very soon. 342338[/snapback] I hear you there! Even when he does make it, I always have to hold my breath. His kicks ALWAYS look like they could go either way. I've never seen him hit a kick right in the middle. Mularkey obviously has no faith in him. He either went for it on 4th or punted the ball away when we were past yard 37. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 How many years are left on Lindell's contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marck Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 What is your problem with Rian Lindell. First of all he was 24 for 28 last year and missed only one kick of importance all season, which was the FG attempt in the Steeler game. He missed no extra points and his kickoffs led to the Bills special teams being able to shut down the opposition kick return game. There is far more to the kicking game then just making FG's. Try looking at the overall package for the skill set required and before you lose the load in your pants over the availability of Paul Edinger, please remember he is being replaced by Doug (didn't he miss two extra points against the Bills inn 2003) Brien. Also wasn't Brien the kicker who allowed the Steelers to beat the Jets in last years playoffs? Now, please settle down and let training camp performance allow the decision to be made based on all of the factors of place kicker performance. I hate Rian Lindell. I f-cking HATE Rian Lindell! The only people I hate more than Rian Lindell are the people who stand up for him and say he's a good kicker. Give me a break! But i'll calm my bitching down because it looks to me like we're finally going to remedy our problems at kicker. Right now, we're rocking out with 3 kickers on our roster. Usually, we only have 2. So that raises a red flag to me. On top of that is all the reports from credible sources that we were chasing Doug Brien, trying to trade up for Mike Nugent, and are close to signing Matt Payne. But if Matt Payne doesn't get signed and Joe Rheem is just fodder, then the Chicago Bears will answer our problem. Let me explain...... The Bears recently signed Doug Brien to a fair deal. He will be their kicker in 2005. This made them release Paul Edinger. He's a good kicker and he would be an upgrade from Lindell. But not only was Edinger a casualty, famed Boise St. kicker Tyler Jones will be as well! The Bears signed him after the draft and now don't have a spot for him. They'll probably let him show his skills in the preseason and then cut him loose. So we have Edinger on the loose and Jones soon to follow in the coming months. But it doesn't stop there! The Bears also signed Nick Novak after the draft. Nick Novak was the kicker from Maryland who was rated higher than Payne and Rheem on draft boards. So the Bears are going to cut loose Edinger, Tyler Jones, and Nick Novak. One of them (Tyler Jones please!) should be our new kicker if Payne doesn't come into town. 342335[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 Did you just say it's okay that he can't kick field goals? Did you not see Mularkey consistently pass on Lindell? You know, times when we were looking at anything past 39 yards and we punted? Mularkey didn't even try him ONCE from beyond 50! And do you know why that is? It's because he has no faith in him. Rightfully so! Why don't you come down to training camp this year and watch the guy kick? Hell, i'll sit there with you. I live in Rochester, just tell me when you're coming. The guy can't kick it straight to save his life. He missed a 25 yarder!! Yeah you're right bud. Lindell isn't on the hot seat. That's why we have 2 other kickers on the roster and we're looking to add a 3rd. That's why it was reported that Buffalo was one of the teams trying to get Brien and were trying to trade up for Nugent. What was I thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I am also amused/horrified at the cut and dried simplistic way folks seem to want to see the Bills kicker issue handled. I agree that Lindell's miss on a chipshot FG he should have made last year against Pitts simply validated a sense that the Bills could profit a lot from having someone even adequate as an FG threat. It emphasized that mostly we were probably lucky that by pure chance we have not needed him to kick a gamewinning FG during crunchtime the last two years. The fact that MM seems to have lost any confidence in him over 45 yards is simply not NFL acceptable performance for a kicker. This being said, it is also rediculous that most fans seem to be so dazed by his placekicking failings that they seem to refuse to understand the fact that he has done extraordinarily well as a kickoff performer. Like it or not, a kicker MIGHT be called upon any week to win or lose a game for you with a last minute kick. However, he DEFINITELY WILL be called upon each and every week to kickoff for your team and those kickoffs will do a lot to determine the fate of your team that week. Like it or not, Lindell was simply flawless in the kickoff game last year. Placekicking is high profile and success/failure is measured easily in you getting 3 points or not. However, simply because kickoff skill is more difficult to measure that does not mean that it is easy (this is particularly true in the dicey variable all-important winds at RWS. Tackling plays a lead role in the quality of the kickoff game. However, in order to cover kicks well it is critical that a kicker kicks the ball when, where and with the hangtime the tacklers expect every time in order for them to be in the right position to make the tackle. The Bills has no (by this I mean nada, zero, none, bupkus) TDs on KOs against them or even long returns last year. Luck was a major part of this as the difficult to predict RWS wins are quite likely to have the KO go off plan at least a couple of times per season. However, the fact is that the Bills were essentially flawless in this part of their game last year and Lindell deserves a big part of the credit (with tackling, luck, etc) for this achievement. Just because Lindell was great on KOs (an equally if not more important though less vexing part of his job as placekicking) does not mean he is also great at placekicking. In fact on the contrary. However, just because he did not produce placekicking does not nullify the fact he was incredibly valuable in the kickoff game. Am i satisfied with Lindell as our kicker? No! Am I willing to force myself to be comfortable with him as our kicker? Yes, unless there is a better alternative. I see none so far. The new kicker needs to excel at not only the placekicking game but also the kickoff game. Doug O'Brien has not even excelled at placekicking having missd a variety of PAT and other chipshots. the fact folks were interested in him speaks only to their level of desperation and not him being a better alternative than Lindell. Fair-haired rookies like Nugent or Payne are interesting but essentially unproven at mastering the pro kickoff game. Nugent interested me but mostly because I put such low value on draft picks that his long PK ability intrigued me enough that I endorsed taking what I see as taking a flyer on him in the 2nd round. However, we are probably better off that he was gone. We will see how Parrish does. Lindell should get competition and if he is beaten out fine. However, his improvement last year statistically from his horrendous production in 2003 gives us more hope than taking a flyer on some unproven replacement. His hitting two 45+ FGs taken off the scoreboard by Bills TOs does not count in reality but does provide some hope as well. I have no problem with trying to make it work with Lindell unless something better comes along. Folks do not need to make the case that Lindell sucks as a placekicer. We know that. They need to make the case that their proposed new kicker will make the grade as a placekicker, kickoff guys, and onside kick artist. I see no one where there is a good case made about that player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I seeyour point FFS, but keeping a bad PK for good kickoff skills is like keeping a poor passer because he hands the ball off well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I hate Rian Lindell. I f-cking HATE Rian Lindell! The only people I hate more than Rian Lindell are the people who stand up for him and say he's a good kicker. Give me a break! But i'll calm my bitching down because it looks to me like we're finally going to remedy our problems at kicker. Right now, we're rocking out with 3 kickers on our roster. Usually, we only have 2. So that raises a red flag to me. On top of that is all the reports from credible sources that we were chasing Doug Brien, trying to trade up for Mike Nugent, and are close to signing Matt Payne. But if Matt Payne doesn't get signed and Joe Rheem is just fodder, then the Chicago Bears will answer our problem. Let me explain...... The Bears recently signed Doug Brien to a fair deal. He will be their kicker in 2005. This made them release Paul Edinger. He's a good kicker and he would be an upgrade from Lindell. But not only was Edinger a casualty, famed Boise St. kicker Tyler Jones will be as well! The Bears signed him after the draft and now don't have a spot for him. They'll probably let him show his skills in the preseason and then cut him loose. So we have Edinger on the loose and Jones soon to follow in the coming months. But it doesn't stop there! The Bears also signed Nick Novak after the draft. Nick Novak was the kicker from Maryland who was rated higher than Payne and Rheem on draft boards. So the Bears are going to cut loose Edinger, Tyler Jones, and Nick Novak. One of them (Tyler Jones please!) should be our new kicker if Payne doesn't come into town. 342335[/snapback] Actually, we usually go into camp with three PK's with one getting cut in the first or second round of roster cuts. Further, if I read what you are saying right, we are going to end up with a kicker from the Bears who was not good enough to beat out Doug Brien. That doesn't fill me with confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marck Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Actually, no its not. Special Teams plays a crucial role in the determination of field position and would you like to review the statistics of teams having to go 75+ yards on drives to score touchdowns sometime. Lindell made over 85% of his FG attempts last year and two over 45+ be taken off the scoreboard. The people on this board talk about how many game winning FG's he has tried, but lets actually wait until he misses them before assuming he won't make them. God, people please relax. I seeyour point FFS, but keeping a bad PK for good kickoff skills is like keeping a poor passer because he hands the ball off well... 342491[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I am also amused/horrified at the cut and dried simplistic way folks seem to want to see the Bills kicker issue handled. I agree that Lindell's miss on a chipshot FG he should have made last year against Pitts simply validated a sense that the Bills could profit a lot from having someone even adequate as an FG threat. It emphasized that mostly we were probably lucky that by pure chance we have not needed him to kick a gamewinning FG during crunchtime the last two years. The fact that MM seems to have lost any confidence in him over 45 yards is simply not NFL acceptable performance for a kicker. This being said, it is also rediculous that most fans seem to be so dazed by his placekicking failings that they seem to refuse to understand the fact that he has done extraordinarily well as a kickoff performer. Like it or not, a kicker MIGHT be called upon any week to win or lose a game for you with a last minute kick. However, he DEFINITELY WILL be called upon each and every week to kickoff for your team and those kickoffs will do a lot to determine the fate of your team that week. Like it or not, Lindell was simply flawless in the kickoff game last year. Placekicking is high profile and success/failure is measured easily in you getting 3 points or not. However, simply because kickoff skill is more difficult to measure that does not mean that it is easy (this is particularly true in the dicey variable all-important winds at RWS. Tackling plays a lead role in the quality of the kickoff game. However, in order to cover kicks well it is critical that a kicker kicks the ball when, where and with the hangtime the tacklers expect every time in order for them to be in the right position to make the tackle. The Bills has no (by this I mean nada, zero, none, bupkus) TDs on KOs against them or even long returns last year. Luck was a major part of this as the difficult to predict RWS wins are quite likely to have the KO go off plan at least a couple of times per season. However, the fact is that the Bills were essentially flawless in this part of their game last year and Lindell deserves a big part of the credit (with tackling, luck, etc) for this achievement. Just because Lindell was great on KOs (an equally if not more important though less vexing part of his job as placekicking) does not mean he is also great at placekicking. In fact on the contrary. However, just because he did not produce placekicking does not nullify the fact he was incredibly valuable in the kickoff game. Am i satisfied with Lindell as our kicker? No! Am I willing to force myself to be comfortable with him as our kicker? Yes, unless there is a better alternative. I see none so far. The new kicker needs to excel at not only the placekicking game but also the kickoff game. Doug O'Brien has not even excelled at placekicking having missd a variety of PAT and other chipshots. the fact folks were interested in him speaks only to their level of desperation and not him being a better alternative than Lindell. Fair-haired rookies like Nugent or Payne are interesting but essentially unproven at mastering the pro kickoff game. Nugent interested me but mostly because I put such low value on draft picks that his long PK ability intrigued me enough that I endorsed taking what I see as taking a flyer on him in the 2nd round. However, we are probably better off that he was gone. We will see how Parrish does. Lindell should get competition and if he is beaten out fine. However, his improvement last year statistically from his horrendous production in 2003 gives us more hope than taking a flyer on some unproven replacement. His hitting two 45+ FGs taken off the scoreboard by Bills TOs does not count in reality but does provide some hope as well. I have no problem with trying to make it work with Lindell unless something better comes along. Folks do not need to make the case that Lindell sucks as a placekicer. We know that. They need to make the case that their proposed new kicker will make the grade as a placekicker, kickoff guys, and onside kick artist. I see no one where there is a good case made about that player. 342484[/snapback] I always enjoy a post from you, FFS. Such as this one. As I scroll down a thread and see your name, I've learned to do a couple of things before I proceed to read your posts. First, I hit the john. Second, I make a delicious sandwich and uncap a cold drink. I enjoy both your posts and my snack together, because I fear either hunger or a urinary tract infection will ensue due to "holding it" if I read your post prior to these actions. I say this with the utmost respect and admiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemhoff Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 How many years are left on Lindell's contract? 342345[/snapback] Who cares, let's take the hit and be done with the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 What is your problem with Rian Lindell. First of all he was 24 for 28 last year and missed only one kick of importance all season, which was the FG attempt in the Steeler game. He missed no extra points and his kickoffs led to the Bills special teams being able to shut down the opposition kick return game. Note true...He missed a important makeable FG in Week1 against the JAX. There is far more to the kicking game then just making FG's. Try looking at the overall package for the skill set required and before you lose the load in your pants over the availability of Paul Edinger, please remember he is being replaced by Doug (didn't he miss two extra points against the Bills inn 2003) Brien. Also wasn't Brien the kicker who allowed the Steelers to beat the Jets in last years playoffs? 342415[/snapback] Exactly. There is more than just making FGs...If you coach choses to punt at the opponents 32 yard line rather than go for a 50 yard field goal, then it says your coach has no confidence in your ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I see your point FFS 342491[/snapback] Could you explain it to me in 25 words or less, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Could you explain it to me in 25 words or less, then? 342617[/snapback] hehehe, here goes... lindell sucks on FG's. stop. great on kickoffs. stop. we need a kicker thats good at both. stop. Cant allow kick return TD's stop. there ya go, 24 words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 hehehe, here goes... lindell sucks on FG's. stop. great on kickoffs. stop. we need a kicker thats good at both. stop. Cant allow kick return TD's stop. there ya go, 24 words 342638[/snapback] Aha! That works for me, thanks! I didn't have time for the whole make-a-sandwich-and-hit-the-john routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 What is your problem with Rian Lindell. First of all he was 24 for 28 last year and missed only one kick of importance all season, which was the FG attempt in the Steeler game. He missed no extra points and his kickoffs led to the Bills special teams being able to shut down the opposition kick return game. There is far more to the kicking game then just making FG's. Try looking at the overall package for the skill set required and before you lose the load in your pants over the availability of Paul Edinger, please remember he is being replaced by Doug (didn't he miss two extra points against the Bills inn 2003) Brien. Also wasn't Brien the kicker who allowed the Steelers to beat the Jets in last years playoffs? Now, please settle down and let training camp performance allow the decision to be made based on all of the factors of place kicker performance. 342415[/snapback] His miss in the J'ville game was critical, we lost by three and the miss in the Steeler game was a killer. He was dead last among starters in kickoff distance, 20th in touchbacks and 9th in return average. I think based on those numbers that the decent ranking in return average is largely due to good coverage given that his distance was lame in the extreme. In 2003 he was 29th in distance on kickoffs and 20th in touchbacks. He was 11th in return average, again, I think, due to solid coverage. He was 2-4 against Oakland and we lost by 2. He also missed one against Indy and we lost that game 17-14. Arguably, he has lost us 4 games in the last two years and hasn't won us a single game. Compare that with what Hollis did in only one year here. He needs replacing but the problem is that we don't really have anyone who looks like a legitimate replacement for Lindell. That's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Who cares, let's take the hit and be done with the thing. 342528[/snapback] True, but that will be a factor. The Bills may not want to tkae a hit for a couple of years to get a kicker or may or may not be better then Lindell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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