Alaska Darin Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Darin, I respect you. However, friendly fire catastrophes can be avoided with great communication and execution. Neither, it seems, came into play that fateful day. I don't believe the military emphasizes these points enough. They seem pressured by the media for instant results which is a stupid thing, IMHO. 342814[/snapback] Is that based on your vast experience in training? Because if it isn't, let me be the first to tell you to STFU. Oh, and I mean that in a very respectful way. The guys on the ground could give a flying blzrul's ass about instant results. The big problem with combat is it's loud, dangerous, and confusing and there's only so much training that can be done - simulations are close but not the same. Hence the reason people tend to get dead doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 None of this is a surprise from a government that went to war over WMD's that never existed. PTR 342328[/snapback] Newsflash: Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan. Why let a little thing like that get in the way of mynah bird stupidity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 It's pretty obvious we are on different sides of the fence. You obviously want to believe in everything the Bush administration says and does. I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable. The right always reacts the same way to bad press...liberal bias...beating a dead horse...blah, blah. But they don't seem to care one bit whether it's true or not! That's because, frankly, the truth is the enemy of the right. The truth is inconvenient. The truth won't help to recruiting. The truth makes us question what is really going on. Sorry, bud...the truth is a B word. PTR 342834[/snapback] We are all so glad and astounded that you know the "truth". May the true story be told. I'm all ears. I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable. Well, tell us the truth then. We're waiting. I am, at least. OH...that's right. I'm being blinded by the right! Hey Dev? 5 4 3 2 . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerjamhead Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 May we never stop talking about Pat Tillman! 342731[/snapback] Why do you have such a boner for Tillman? Is he everything that you are not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerjamhead Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 We are all so glad and astounded that you know the "truth". May the true story be told. I'm all ears. I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable. Well, tell us the truth then. We're waiting. I am, at least. OH...that's right. I'm being blinded by the right! Hey Dev? 5 4 3 2 . . . 342880[/snapback] Don't even waste you time on a retard like Prohomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Don't even waste you time on a retard like Prohomo. 342928[/snapback] Fag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Why do you have such a boner for Tillman? Is he everything that you are not? 342927[/snapback] what the fug is wrong with you? Pat Tillman is role model. I talk about Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon too. I also talk about Jesus Christ, Gandhi, Lincoln, MLK, Mother Theresa. What the fug is your problem? Should we forget great people or should we learn from them? I will choose the later BTW I am a great citizen, friend, brother, son, etc but thanks for asking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerjamhead Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 what the fug is wrong with you? Pat Tillman is role model. I talk about Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon too. I also talk about Jesus Christ, Gandhi, Lincoln, MLK, Mother Theresa. What the fug is your problem? Should we forget great people or should we learn from them? I will choose the later BTW I am a great citizen, friend, brother, son, etc but thanks for asking 342992[/snapback] Ever heard of Kevin Tillman? How is Pat any much more of a hero than his brother? Lick balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I'm so sick of the right wing's attempts to spin this thing into some positive direction. If the Clinton administration had done the exact same thing the Bush admistration did the right wing would be lambasting them, but since its "their guy" the right finds any and every way to make excuses. Its why I'm sick of both the Dems and the Reps, they're so busy defending "their side" that they lose interest in any semblence of what's right. 342828[/snapback] Your argument might carry some weight if I were actually a Republican and if I actually were a Bush supporter. I am neither. PTR said WMD never existed. Facts prove otherwise, namely the people killed from Iraq's use of the stuff. Sorry if the truth is getting in the way of your agenda. You might want to do something about that. It hurts your credibility. As far as PTR's post, he complains about right-wing apologists, but it is pretty hypocritical of him to do the exact same thing for his side. It is pretty embarassing, if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 We are all so glad and astounded that you know the "truth". May the true story be told. I'm all ears. I find the dishonestly, coverups and lies from our current leaders indefensable. Well, tell us the truth then. We're waiting. I am, at least. OH...that's right. I'm being blinded by the right! Hey Dev? 5 4 3 2 . . . 342880[/snapback] What the hell would you know about this stuff? We need to pay attention to the MoveOn.org wackos. Only they know the truth. Seriously. They make it up on a regular basis. Just run along and go back to your job. You know, the one that deals with this stuff on a daily basis. You have absolutely NO qualifications to talk about this stuff. Let's have a left-wing hack enlighten us on the truth. Go ahead, Promo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Darin, I respect you. However, friendly fire catastrophes can be avoided with great communication and execution. Neither, it seems, came into play that fateful day. I don't believe the military emphasizes these points enough. They seem pressured by the media for instant results which is a stupid thing, IMHO. 342814[/snapback] Okay couple of things. First off friendly fire accidents occur all the time. Hell I had a friend get a 500 LB bomb dropped about 100 feet from his position in training by an F18. Blew his ear membranes out and he was basically deaf for a month, he was one of the lucky ines in his platoon. Again that was training. BTW that was about a month after they came back from Team Spirit in Korea where one of the choppers his platoon was on slammed into the side of a mountain and killed 27 guys instantly. I have seen two people shot on a rifle range during qualifications. Both were bad weapons, one went full auto when the sear snapped and the guy didn't know what to do so he swung the weapon around while finger was still on the trigger. Shot the Base Commanders son who was a 2nd Lieutenant. The other was a misfire by the range officer, shot someone foot when a .45 mischambered and discharged. I have seen an Ospry go in the drink at Quantico, 4 Marines died in that accident and it looked mild. Guess what accidents happen during control training, what do you think happens in real combat. sh-- happens and all the communications, which you can't really hear during a firefight, and execution, whatever that means, have no bearing when the bad guys don't do exactly what you want them to. Stop watching TV and thinking that is what it is like. It isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I have seen two people shot on a rifle range during qualifications. Both were bad weapons, one went full auto when the sear snapped and the guy didn't know what to do so he swung the weapon around while finger was still on the trigger. Shot the Base Commanders son who was a 2nd Lieutenant. The other was a misfire by the range officer, shot someone foot when a .45 mischambered and discharged. 343150[/snapback] Did you see the Jessica Simpson/Nick Whatever USO special on ABC last night? She was on the range with an M-16 and swung it over as she turned around; the person next to her said "Whoa!" and had to brush it back downrange. Some people do not have total respect for firearms. My brother was her security escort when she did a tour in Afghanistan, I think it was in '02. He's got an autograph on Stuff or Maxim. I quote: "Nice T&A but there's nothing there. And she sings like crap." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Did you see the Jessica Simpson/Nick Whatever USO special on ABC last night? She was on the range with an M-16 and swung it over as she turned around; the person next to her had to brush it back downrange. Some people do not have total respect for firearms. My brother was her security escort when she did a tour in Afghanistan, I think it was in '02. He's got an autograph on Stuff or Maxim. I quote: "Nice T&A but there's nothing there. And she sings like crap." 343211[/snapback] No I didn't see it. But exactly my point. All it takes is 2 seconds of someone not recognizing someone or having a brain fart on the battle field to get someone killed. Thanks for validating my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Ever heard of Kevin Tillman? How is Pat any much more of a hero than his brother? Lick balls. 343091[/snapback] Yes !@#$ I have heard or Pat Tillman. Someone thinks highly of Pat Tillman and you want to pick a fight because? Pick your battles man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 No I didn't see it. But exactly my point. All it takes is 2 seconds of someone not recognizing someone or having a brain fart on the battle field to get someone killed. 343214[/snapback] Or not even. The simple fact is that war is about the application of violence in what is at best barely controlled chaos. And when you start putting that much deadly sh-- in the air, some of it is bound to go where you didn't intend it to, regardless of your level of training or communications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 If we're going to talk about training accidents... I've had the joy of having friendly mortar rounds called in on my position. Just because some !@#$ can't read a map. A piece of shrapnel the size of a brick landed about 3 feet from my head. One time we were clearing a trench and I was the first man in. I low crawled up to the entrance, threw in a grenade and cleared the opening. The 2nd guy in had a star cluster that he was suppose to pop off once he was in. Well, when he jumped in he accidentally set off the star cluster. I was at the T intersection at the end of the hallway and looked back to see this thing bouncing off the walls heading right towards me. I tell you, my ass puckered up pretty tight as that thing flew right past me. For my 7th parachute jump we did a night time jump in Georgia. I exited out of the aircraft and had what is known as a cigarette roll. That's where your suspension lines get tangled and your parachute doesn't fully open. I couldn't get my reserve chute open in time and shattered part of my right ankle. I was lucky and didn't need surgery, but it took some time for my ankle to heal before I could jump again. But its all good... it's part of the risks you take by being in the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 But its all good... it's part of the risks you take by being in the military. 343437[/snapback] Which is something that a civilian would never understand. I'd like to see some of the linguini-types around here work on a gun battery for a day or two. MWAA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 But its all good... it's part of the risks you take by being in the military. 343437[/snapback] That and listening to frumpie moms and tree hugging liberals complain on how you must have been doing it wrong and Bush is bad for making you train so that you get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 That and listening to frumpie moms and tree hugging liberals complain on how you must have been doing it wrong and Bush is bad for making you train so that you get hurt. 343473[/snapback] "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." Do recruits at Parris Island still have the right to call "time out, I'm stressed" when the DI's yelling at them? Or did they finally ditch that BS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." Do recruits at Parris Island still have the right to call "time out, I'm stressed" when the DI's yelling at them? Or did they finally ditch that BS? 343479[/snapback] We used that saying at Ft. Sill. "The more sweat in training, the less blood in combat! Drive on Drill Sergeant!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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