Thoughts on the pass defense?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I hate Fraziers zone. Always have, always will.  It only works if you get pressure on the qb, which we didn't today. Our front 4 especially the DT's were bad today.  Blitzing lately has been ineffective.  And if we can't generate pressure on the upcoming qbs, our DB's will suffer.  Von was the missing piece to raise everyone else's game.  Now McD & Frazier will be called upon to stop Tua, Burrow or Mahomes.

I agree with the ineffectiveness of the blitz.

 
They’re obvious and our rushers get swallowed by the line. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Send the Jets our 1st pick to borrow Sauce for the playoffs

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

As bad as our secondary playing today, Trey actually gave me hope about returning to his former form. He was actually good today.

I watched him and I don’t remember many receptions.

 

There was one play that Meyers ran right past him, but Mac rolled to his left.

[Warriorspikes51]

20 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Disagree that Von's absence has some sort of major impact on the pass rush

 

He almost always lines up way outside on the D left side, and goes one-on-one against the right tackle...who man handles him nicely out of the way at which point Von quits on the play.  He does this many times per game...for the limited plays that he is actually on the field (he misses LOTS of plays).  Then he'll get a pressure or maybe a sack once and everyone says "Wow, Von Miller!  What an impact on the game!"

 

He then goes back to obscurity.

 

He's not like Bruce Smith routinely drawing double teams and making all the other D-llnemen better because of him.

 

 

 

this is a wildly inaccurate take. Von was right up there with Micah Parsons and Myles Garrett in pass rush win %. He was a huge factor. He single handedly won the KC game with 2 4th quarter sacks on Mahomes. He forced a fumble in the Jets game that would have been massive if not for Allen tossing a pick the next play. He Wrecked the Titans all game.  He got attention from offenses which freed up everyone else on Dline

Edited January 9, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[stevewin]

2 hours ago, Putin said:

We made Mac Jones look like a franchise QB today what else is there to say ? 

That was McD playing 5D chess - playing the long game so the Cheaters keep Jones as their QB

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

this is a wildly inaccurate take. Von was right up there with Micah Parsons and Myles Garrett in pass rush win %. He was a huge factor. He single handedly won the KC game with 2 4th quarter sacks on Mahomes. He forced a fumble in the Jets game that would have been massive if not for Allen tossing a pick the next play. He Wrecked the Titans all game.  He got attention from offenses which freed up everyone else on Dline

Von also wrecks a lot of run plays by crashing inside.

 

You see the difference (obvious) between Von and Epenesa.

 

Von can bend, Epenesa gets pushed past the QB constantly.

 

Also, you have to think Von’s snaps would have increased in the Playoffs.

[Billsfanatic8989]

Pass D is a huge issue. 

 

If Mac Jones & Brisset were able to do well against them, how in the world will we stop Mahomes, Burrow, or even Herbert if we faced LA?

[Governor]

1 hour ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

I’d expect McD to be super duper extremely heavily involved in both the game plan and defensive play calling from here on out. If we put forth great defensive game plans and play, Frazier probably gets his second chance to be a HC. My spidey senses tell me that McD wants Eric Washington to take the d-coordinator helm next season. But he can’t can LF, of course. 

No one is hiring Frazier as a HC. This dude will never stop torturing us. It was a terrible retread hire.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

What was concerning today was how fast the Pats receivers found an opening. If we’re going to run 5 DBs out there the majority of the time and sink 7 back into coverage, it has to hold up and afford our DL a little more time to get home. Mac was getting the ball out on time and in rhythm, the pass rush never had a chance. Passes were complete to the sideline and over the middle; wherever Mac wanted to go with the ball there was little resistance, until late, when he started pressing. 

Yes, I remember the plays to Hunter Henry the most.

 

He’s slow, but over the middle he was constantly open.

 

Marlowe was a mess today.

 

 

[Governor]

1 hour ago, DrPJax said:

Have to say those two offenses , esp kc , are really playing well and Reid with one less game to prep for , is seasoned, creative , and they look more diverse than they were when they had Hill.  Mahomes even stated he felt he was forcing things to Hill & Kelce esp in the Bengals game where they blew the lead last year.
 

 They dominated the Raiders this week and that game was never in doubt. I know Beane hoped Miller was the answer and hitting Mahomes was how to get past them.  Reid still looks slightly ahead , as he diversified the o even more , and put  more weapons around Mahomes. They are so diverse, it’s not just about stopping mahomes now.  We won’t see this year with Miller hurt , but I hope we figure them out and Dorsey gets more speed and a dependable group of supportive receivers with Diggs, or we may not catch up to kc.  We beat them early the past two years , but as the year goes on that KC O evolves.  
 

Time will tell , but it looks like you will have to outproduce them on offense to get beyond them. They appear to have options if you try rushing Mahomes more. Their run game is impressive with their diverse backs. We have a D really compromised with injuries so it’s hard to judge this year, but the Raiders rush never seemed to matter. Reid is just a really creative coach with a qb who can execute just about anything.  May have to win shootouts later in the year to get past them; it was the raiders tho so will see how we do. Going to be a real challenge. 

They also have D linemen that make big plays at the end to close out games.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

To heck with the Chiefs. Bengals are the real team to beat IMO. I’m way more confident in a match up against the Chiefs than I am the Bengals.

I’m happy the Bengals get to play another black and blue bruised game with the Ravens.

 

Ravens probably won’t win, but both being from the North, they beat each other up.

 

Higgins got rocked today and Cappa might be out with an ankle sprain. 
 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[What a Tuel]

3 hours ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

Fraizer sucks been saying it for 3 years 

 

Sucks so much it has 2nd lowest points allowed in the league (29 points less than 3rd lowest).

Edited January 9, 2023 by What a Tuel

[Toyo321]

2 hours ago, sven233 said:

Unfortunately, this is just the same Fraizer defense that we have been seeing since he got here.  Play a soft zone making sure you don't get beat over the top.  It makes for long, sustained drives but in the end, the screws tend to tighten a bit and the hope is to hold teams to 3 and not give up TDs. 

 

The thing is, it works fairly well against teams that don't have a good QB or weapons.  This is why over the course of a season, the stats look pretty good and we are always ranked high.  Where is becomes a major problem is when you go against better QBs and WRs that know how to get open and find the weak spots.  And where do you find these teams?  In the Playoffs, of course.  That is why it is so frustrating every year to go into the Playoffs against teams like the Chiefs knowing that no matter where the defense ranked during the season, that we know we will have to score 35+ to even have a chance because the defense can't get away with this soft coverage it played all season.  It's why 13 seconds happens.  It is infuriating and I expect nothing different this post season.

 

It also doesn't help to have the guy you brought into be your closer and try to shorten the time the QB has in the pocket go down, one of your stud safeties go out for the season at the very beginning of the year while the other one is being held together with duct tape at this point, and have your former top 3 CB still recovering from a devastating injury. 

 

Our secondary is so porous with so many backups and rookies that any team with experience at QB and WR is going to fillet us alive.  Sushi anyone..... yeah its that bad. Cinci gutted us in the first two drives on Monday night.  We are treading water in shark infested water and we are the predator any more.

 

Next week against the Phins if Tua starts I hate to say that this game does not look good.  We are down #3 at safety this time and we have a less than cohesive

team of guys back there now.  Frazier's ice age nickel D and his Tampa 2 D is toast,  that right now is seriously broken.  Too many key players being unavailable with subpar backups starting in their places.

 

This playoff run would be okay if we did not have Dorsey but now we have 3 handicaps.  Dorsey and the entire secondary and no consistent defensive pressure on the opposing QB. 

 

If we don't put up at least 30 points in every single game in the playoffs we are toast, early exit for sure.

 

No offense to anyone on the TBD.  I want to win as much as anyone.  But this teams O and D strategy are not sustainable with our current players and coaching staff & personnel.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Toyo321

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

His bend but don't break approach is what pisses me off. 49ers put out a blueprint on how to shut the Dolphins offense down and he refuses to use it

 

The 49ers didn't shut them down. The Dolphins had wide open receivers all over the field that Tua flat out missed.

[Reks Ryan]

3 hours ago, Putin said:

We made Mac Jones look like a franchise QB today what else is there to say ? 

That would be a pretty terrible franchise QB.  He threw 3 INTs in the 2nd half, and the Patriots only had 24 net yards of Offense in the 4th QTR with their season on the line.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

The problem we have this season is it’s been bend then break.

 

We are literally the best red zone defense in the NFL, giving up a TD just 44.44% of the time. So how can you honestly say this?

 

McDermott and Frazier run a defense that requires the opposing offense to be perfect. The thing that so many people on here want them to do, blitz more, burned them big time on the first drive against the Bengals and many other times throughout the year. Conservative defense isn't flashy but in the modern era it's the only thing that works. If you like blitz heavy defenses go ask Dolphins fans how they feel about their DC. Offenses have too many answers for that stuff these days.

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

I prefer shutting down the run, and hitting QBs. Yes you give up bigger plays, but you don’t give up time consuming drives and the QB takes hits as you send more than they can block. Make sure the QB hits the turf on every pass. The hits add up and the big plays given up don’t tax your defense.

 

Interesting way to look at it. Thank you.

[Beast]

3 hours ago, Putin said:

We made Mac Jones look like a franchise QB today what else is there to say ? 

Yes, the 3 INT’s clearly showed that.

[BRH]

3 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

First time it struck me this season was the Pittsburg game. D got lit up. 

What was the score of that game and who won?

[timekills17]

This defense is built on playing the teams we have to beat, and how our offense is designed.

If our offense is playing anywhere near their potential, they can score quickly. So another quick-strike offense is the most likely to cause us challenge.

If we give up time-consuming short/medium passes and runs - that's fine. Even if occasionally (~45% of the time) when they get to the red zone they score a TD. Because it usually took a long time to get there.

Tthe expectation - and the reality across the past three seasons - is that our offense will return fire, but faster.

That also means they take a few risks across the middle to try and make a turn-over, because they can afford to let the play be executed.

 

When they get into the red zone, they take less risks, and play tighter rather than taking guesses on plays vs. formation and scheme they've seen.

We see it in the results of the red zone defense. Not to mention our defense is lateral quickness rather than straight-line speed so as the field length compresses it plays into their hands.

 

It's frustrating watching teams make play after play, especially on 3rd and 7+. But if you understand that is how the defense is designed, it is a bit less stressful. You can actually get excited waiting for either the turnover, or the move into the Bills' side of the field past the 30-yard line - because then you know the heat is on, and it's playing into the defense's strength.

 

This isn't homerish; look at the long term results and play style rather than any single play. The risk is a player who can get that intermediate play and quickly - and repeatedly - turn it into TDs, especially on a day when our offense isn't playing well. But every team has to play a risk vs. reward game in the NFL.*

 

 

 

*It's the reason the playoffs often look so different. A scheme that works 75% of the time - including keeping players fresh and healthy - is successful across a season, but might not be in any one game. Teams talk "one game seasons" and players have to play that way, but coaches have to play the long game...

Until the playoffs.

Edited January 9, 2023 by timekills17