Thoughts on the pass defense?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Watched NFL Live and they were ripping the Bills defense. They said they can't win if they play like that. I guess I'm not the only one worried about the defense.  

 

Simply Josh Allen will need to do it all in the playoffs unless there's a huge change with the D and a lucky bounce here or there ( like on two INTs yesterday).

 

The D will need to be opportunistic, yes. Lucky bounces isn't quite fair but opportunistic, certainly. Because in the secondary they have one safety with a torn meniscus, another they brought back mid season for a 7th rounder, a former 7th rounder starting every game at corner, a corner still not fully right after an ACL tear and then a couple of rookies. That secondary isn't going to hold up.

 

They are not going to win this post season keeping teams to 20. Won't happen. But nor will it for KC or Cincy. For any of those teams to win they are going to have to rely on offense. 

1 hour ago, IndyMark said:

Phillips lasted only, what, 19 snaps and Oliver was truly invisible - and they ran right at him.

 

Oliver was certainly poor yesterday and had very little impact on the game. But where were the plays that the Patriots ran right at him? It actually looked like the opposite to me for the most part they made a concerted effort to run away from him.

[hondo in seattle]

Frazier's scheme is fine.  Just look at the defensive stats since he's been here.

 

This season, our D was decimated by key injuries.  Miller and Hyde out for of the year.  White out for much of the year and just now maybe rounding into form.  Milano, Poyer, and Edmunds have all missed games.   It feels like when a defensive player gets hurt, it's always one of our most-impactful, most-needed defenders.  

 

Even so, PFF has us with the 4th best defensive DVOA in the league.  We would have been #1 if our defensive stars could have stayed reasonably healthy.  

 

Given the injuries to Hyde and Miller and my doubts about White being fully recovered, I do worry about our D in the playoffs.  

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[Billsfan1972]

12 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Mac Jones carved this Bills defense up like knife thru butter and they have a putrid offense.

Chiefs or Bengals will absolutely annihilate this Bills defense. That's why I'm hoping Josh Allen and the offense will score a lot of points.

All the money and all the draft picks spent on defense and we are depending on the offense to win games.

I only watch Bills game when Josh Allen is on the field then change the channel when he's not because I know this

Bills defense cannot stop good offenses like Chiefs or Bengals.

Actually I do that a lot too, because the defense is hard to watch.  The Bills were lucky when you look at the QB's they faced during the year.  They played a lot of bad ones. 

 

Yes there are injuries, but schemes and play calling too has not been great on the defensive side.     

Edited January 10, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Thurman#1]

On 1/9/2023 at 11:53 AM, Bermuda Triangle said:

The number of (1) easy, stress-free completions and (2) receivers running open downfield, is alarming, to say the least.

 

I've never been a big fan of Frazier's style of defense, but even his staunchest defenders have to admit that the defense has played poorly of late.

 

Will Frazier be able to right the ship before next weekend?

 

 

Teams have managed an 80.1 passer rating against our defense this year. That's 4th best in the league.

 

Considering the injuries of Von Miller, Hyde and several CBs, they're playing exceptionally well. Hell, they're playing well even if you leave the injuries out of it.

 

The ship doesn't need to be righted, but adjusting the set of the sails just a bit is a good idea for nearly every team.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Mac Jones carved this Bills defense up like knife thru butter and they have a putrid offense.

Chiefs or Bengals will absolutely annihilate this Bills defense. That's why I'm hoping Josh Allen and the offense will score a lot of points.

All the money and all the draft picks spent on defense and we are depending on the offense to win games.

I only watch Bills game when Josh Allen is on the field then change the channel when he's not because I know this

Bills defense cannot stop good offenses like Chiefs or Bengals.

 

 

I know. Mac Jones carved us up like a knife through butter.

 

You know how those knives are always throwing 3 INTS as they cut through butter. 243 yards!!! WOW!! Joe Montana-esque!!! I thought he was Dan Marino and Pat Mahomes combined out there!!! 5.85 Yards per attempt in the passing game.

 

75.3 passer rating. That's how the passer ratings look when knives carve through butter, isn't it?

 

And 23 points scored!!!!!!!!! He was downright Peyton Manning-esque out there!!! It almost looked like they'd sneaked Brady into Mac's jersey!!!

 

 

 

You are delusional. Seriously.

[GunnerBill]

45 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Actually I do that a lot too, because the defense is hard to watch.  The Bills were lucky when you look at the QB's they faced during the year.  They played a lot of bad ones. 

 

Yes there are injuries, but schemes and play calling to has not been great on the defensive side.     

 

Wrong.

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I know. Mac Jones carved us up like a knife through butter.

 

You know how those knives are always throwing 3 INTS as they cut through butter. 243 yards!!! WOW!! Joe Montana-esque!!! I thought he was Dan Marino and Pat Mahomes combined out there!!! 5.85 Yards per attempt in the passing game.

 

75.3 passer rating. That's how the passer ratings look when knives carve through butter, isn't it?

 

And 23 points scored!!!!!!!!! He was downright Peyton Manning-esque out there!!! It almost looked like they'd sneaked Brady into Mac's jersey!!!

 

You are delusional. Seriously.

 

Mac had a good first half and seriously, Patricia had a nice plan. The Bills starting a new safety duo on a truncated practice week? He gave them lots of switch route combinations where it is all about communication defensively and took advantage. They got a beat on what the Patriots were doing second half and suddenly it was less easy. Even the touchdown catch they had from Parker was just a 50/50 ball thrown against good coverage that he came down with. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Wrong.

Fine the defence is great and will be the reason they win the SB.  Does that make you happy?

 

Let's hope they can contain Thompson & the phins this week.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Fine the defence is great and will be the reason they win the SB.  Does that make you happy?

 

Let's hope they can contain Thompson & the phins this week.

 

No, because that isn't true either. I know nuance isn't your thing but maybe give it a go. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 1/9/2023 at 4:58 AM, Bruffalo said:

The lack of pressure that we used to be getting with Miller is starting to expose our beat up secondary.  Since we play primarily zone, getting consistent pressure is really important to throw the timing of the QB off.  As decent as Rousseau has been, the other side is just filled with JAGs now.

Damn shame considering how much draft capital and money we spent on the position. Epenesa and Basham were horrible pks that never amounted to nothing. It seems to me a DE is drafted in the 2nd rd there usually jag type players. I know there’s later rd guys that’s become stars but the 2nd rd guys usually never good I don’t know why. 

[HOUSE]

It's a league trend with Great Quaterbacking and super talented Wide receivers. The key is to shut them down in the Red zone. 

If you don't have a pass rush, you are toast 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Damn shame considering how much draft capital and money we spent on the position. Epenesa and Basham were horrible pks that never amounted to nothing. It seems to me a DE is drafted in the 2nd rd there usually jag type players. I know there’s later rd guys that’s become stars but the 2nd rd guys usually never good I don’t know why. 

 

Little harsh on AJE who while certainly not justifying the draft capital expended on him through three years to this point... he does have 6.5 sacks as a situational player this year. That isn't amounting to nothing, but agree it isn't enough. 

 

But I really wanted to reflect on your wider point about second round edge rushers. There might be something in that and I think it is because that is where guys who have good college production but lack elite traits tend to go. That is EXACTLY the way I categorised Boogie coming out even before the Bills took him. He was a good college player, I just didn't see how he was going to "win" at the NFL level. 

2 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

It's a league trend with Great Quaterbacking and super talented Wide receivers. The key is to shut them down in the Red zone. 

If you don't have a pass rush, you are toast 

 

And the Bills have been second best in redzone defense. 

[Magox]

On those two first half drives that New England scored they did easily move the ball down field, but it wasn’t because the defenders were getting “beat” but because of missed assignments, defenders getting pulled in on play action and offensive schemes that were designed well against our defensive schemes on those particular plays.

 

Defenders getting beat is when they are beaten by a step or two and the catches are either contested or at the very least the defender is in the vicinity of the play.   Those two drives the receivers were wide open, defenders were 3-5 yards away.

 

 That was very uncharacteristic of this defense and they’l have to start games off better.   Aside from those two drives the defense played very well and were very opportunistic which is what they will need to be in the playoffs.

[BobbyC81]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:09 PM, John from Riverside said:

Still beating teams by multiple scores

If the Bills advance to the Super Bowl, and the opponent is one of Philly, Niners or Dallas, Josh is in for a long day.  He could get killed against those pass rushes.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Little harsh on AJE who while certainly not justifying the draft capital expended on him through three years to this point... he does have 6.5 sacks as a situational player this year. That isn't amounting to nothing, but agree it isn't enough. 

 

But I really wanted to reflect on your wider point about second round edge rushers. There might be something in that and I think it is because that is where guys who have good college production but lack elite traits tend to go. That is EXACTLY the way I categorised Boogie coming out even before the Bills took him. He was a good college player, I just didn't see how he was going to "win" at the NFL level. 

 

And the Bills have been second best in redzone defense. 

I agree and most likely after the 2nd rd is over they start looking at smaller school guys with athletic traits and scheme fit players. Guys like Maxx Crosby and Trey Hendrickson come to mind . On another note I think Best edge rushers come from the big 10 & big 12 conference especially in the later rds of draft. 

[newcam2012]

18 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I can agree with that, but it's not like KC's pass rush is a bunch of push overs. I'd rather have their's than ours. They actually have 1 more sack than NE does. KC's defense has only generated 20 turnovers this year, which is good for us, but turnovers can be a result of so many different factors, it's hard to say that's an advantage, since you don't know when or where they will happen.

 

What I see wrong with Cincy's D is almost like they let off the gas at times. They've had a tendency to let teams back into games, which is obviously problematic.

D Coordinator Lou Anarumo is very good at mixing up his defenses. He doesn't have the best talent but he's schemes, mixing it up, and game time adjustments are very good. Definelty a cat and mouse game when you go up against his defense. 

[Drew21PA]

Soooo I’ve been curious to see what people think

 

is it possible they go into a game and figure it out as they go?

 

seems like that’s been happening and they adjust really well to stop specific things

 

but I also feel Frazier and McDermott are too proud of their system they wouldn’t adopt San Fran and chargers game plan in defense against the dolphins 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I agree and most likely after the 2nd rd is over they start looking at smaller school guys with athletic traits and scheme fit players. Guys like Maxx Crosby and Trey Hendrickson come to mind . On another note I think Best edge rushers come from the big 10 & big 12 conference especially in the later rds of draft. 

 

Little project for me for the weekend I'll try and do a little breakdown of edge players selected in rounds 2 vs 3-5 over the last five years. My gut tells me you are onto something. 

[Drew21PA]

52 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I know. Mac Jones carved us up like a knife through butter.

 

You know how those knives are always throwing 3 INTS as they cut through butter. 243 yards!!! WOW!! Joe Montana-esque!!! I thought he was Dan Marino and Pat Mahomes combined out there!!! 5.85 Yards per attempt in the passing game.

 

75.3 passer rating. That's how the passer ratings look when knives carve through butter, isn't it?

 

And 23 points scored!!!!!!!!! He was downright Peyton Manning-esque out there!!! It almost looked like they'd sneaked Brady into Mac's jersey!!!

 

 

 

You are delusional. Seriously.

This was what I was referring to

 

like borrow carved us up the first drive - I think by 3rd quarter it would have stopped 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Drew21PA said:

Soooo I’ve been curious to see what people think

 

is it possible they go into a game and figure it out as they go?

 

seems like that’s been happening and they adjust really well to stop specific things

 

but I also feel Frazier and McDermott are too proud of their system they wouldn’t adopt San Fran and chargers game plan in defense against the dolphins 

 

Frazier and McDermott do make very good adjustments. They are the best 2nd half defense in the entire NFL in points given up in 2022 and they were second best in 2021. That is not coincidence. They adjust to what they see. 

 

On your last point I will repeat again, for about the 10th time, that the 49ers and the Chargers did NOT adopt the same game plans vs Miami. They defended them quite differently. 

[newcam2012]

18 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

Head to head though you like the Bills corners over Cincy's based on who they will be matching?   Of course we have Diggs, but outside of him, do any of our receivers scare them?

 

They've got Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and even Hurst.  All of those guys have caught more balls than any other receiver on the Bills not named Diggs.

The Bengals have a superior pass catching group when comparing it to the Bills. That's a major concern because Burrow will find the open receiver and spread it around. In the 5 min they played he found Hurst and a wide open Boyd for a TD. Their weapons pose a serious problem for the Bills D. Imho, the Bills D won't be able to stop the Bengals offense. The Bills will have to win in a shootout.