Thoughts on the pass defense?

[That's No Moon]

16 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Without the kick returns yesterday, that's a very different game since NE wouldn't have had to play the way they did later on.

 

Here's hoping we get more consistent play on offense and defense.

 

You can't say the offense wouldnt have scored on those possessions but yes, without those points you're correct which is why I said what I said.

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is because ultimately they remain undertalented. Especially at corner. They are just not very good there. Even with their inconsitencies and injuried and Tre not yet being Tre I'd take the Bills corners over the Bengals corners in an instant and when teams get down against them and are forced to go pass happy the corners just don't hold up.

Head to head though you like the Bills corners over Cincy's based on who they will be matching?   Of course we have Diggs, but outside of him, do any of our receivers scare them?

 

They've got Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and even Hurst.  All of those guys have caught more balls than any other receiver on the Bills not named Diggs.

[Einstein]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am saying the numbers are better and the eye test tells you the same. You want some specifics? Okay. The pass rush in New England is fierce which is a particularly bad match up for the Bills and they have versatile vets on the backend that enable them to be very multiple in what coverages they show and then play. There were plays yesterday where it is basically 4 safeties on the field on the back end and then Josh has to hold it an extra second while he figures out who goes where which allows the pass rush to get home. The weakness of the Patriots defense is their linebackers are not the most athletic but that isn't a bad weakness to have against these Bills because we are not a great team at getting it out quick to running backs and slot receivers to exploit the short area quickness. KC for example are much better at linebacker but that doesn't necessarily do much for you vs the Bills. So both raw numbers and matchup the Patriots D is a tougher out. The Bills showed in their one drive last week they can run on Cincy and they can expose their corners. I think Cincy's defense is very well coached. But it isn't super talented.

A+ post as usual.

 

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well look at the overall balance of those numbers that you gave and across just those 3 metrics who comes out the best? Numbers, eye test, the answer is the same. New England have a better D than Cincy and KC. 

 

They also have one of the best defensive minds of all time coaching them. Plus better defensive players.

[section122]

The Bills are down to their 3rd string FS.  That alone can cause some problems.  

 

They are missing their best pass rusher that contributes to longer times to cover.

 

All that and the Bills have still won 7 in a row.

 

The Bills finished with the 5th lowest ypa against which is a strong indicator imo of pass defense.

 

They were 14th against completion % so they are allowing short passes to be completed then rallying to the tackle.

 

They gave up the 9th least td passes and tied for the 4th most interceptions.

 

They aren't as bad as people think they are, it is just an emotional reaction as they are invested in the Bills success.

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Head to head though you like the Bills corners over Cincy's based on who they will be matching?   Of course we have Diggs, but outside of him, do any of our receivers scare them?

 

They've got Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and even Hurst.  All of those guys have caught more balls than any other receiver on the Bills not named Diggs.

 

They certainly have a big advantage at receiver. But I'd take the Bills receivers over Cincy's corners even allowing for the fact we don't have high end weapons around Stef. Cincy v Buffalo, if it happens, is a who posseses the ball last game IMO. 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, section122 said:

The Bills are down to their 3rd string FS.  That alone can cause some problems.  

 

They are missing their best pass rusher that contributes to longer times to cover.

 

All that and the Bills have still won 7 in a row.

 

The Bills finished with the 5th lowest ypa against which is a strong indicator imo of pass defense.

 

They were 14th against completion % so they are allowing short passes to be completed then rallying to the tackle.

 

They gave up the 9th least td passes and tied for the 4th most interceptions.

 

They aren't as bad as people think they are, it is just an emotional reaction as they are invested in the Bills success.

 

Excellent post. Interesting last night Poyer played a lot more free safety and they played brough Marlowe up into the box some. They mixed and matched a bit with Damar too. They are clearly still trying to work out how to get what they need at the safety spot which is understandable. In fact when Micah missed time in camp Leslie was asked whether having such good starters that barely come off the field impacted their ability to evaluate and / orr develop their depth. He conceded that it did and we have seen that play out this year. I actually think Damar while by no means perfect had done himself proud for a 2nd year 6th rounder before what happened on Monday. Safety feels very up in the air going into 2023.

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

So you're basing the better defense simply on turnovers?  Because PPG and yards/game doesn't support that.

 

NE went down to Cincy 22-0 in the first half AT HOME and was outgained 442 to 285 in total yards.

 

And for the record, NE has 6 more takeaways than Cincy does but Cincy played 1 less game.  That's what you're basing it on?

I was basing this on both your stats and mine. I just didn't feel like copying and pasting your stats. Also, like GunnerBill, the eye test helps me out a lot. I feel KC and Cincy would be even more scary with NE's defense as there's. That's coaching too, not just players.

[section122]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Excellent post. Interesting last night Poyer played a lot more free safety and they played brough Marlowe up into the box some. They mixed and matched a bit with Damar too. They are clearly still trying to work out how to get what they need at the safety spot which is understandable. In fact when Micah missed time in camp Leslie was asked whether having such good starters that barely come off the field impacted their ability to evaluate and / orr develop their depth. He conceded that it did and we have seen that play out this year. I actually think Damar while by no means perfect had done himself proud for a 2nd year 6th rounder before what happened on Monday. Safety feels very up in the air going into 2023.

 

I haven't done my mid week re-watch yet so it will be interesting to see about Poyer sliding over.  I was surprised to see Marlowe got 100% of the snaps.  I was wondering if we might see Siran Neal relive his college glory days but it was not meant to be lol.

 

That's a nice tidbit as well about Frazier too.  I too thought Hamlin was playing as good as could be expected for a 2nd year player drafted late.  It will be interesting to see how much draft capital will be spent on the secondary to the chagrin of many this April.

 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

PPG against

NE - 20.4

Cin - 20.1

KC - 21.7

 

Yds/g against

NE - 322

Cin - 335

KC - 328

 

Sacks

NE - 54

Cin - 30

KC - 55

 

Not really seeing anything there that shows NE is this defensive juggernaut compared to the other 2. Cincy doesn't have the sack numbers, but has a lower ppg.

 

These are out of context stats. By DVOA New England is 3rd, Cincy is 11th, KC is 17th. If you're trying to convince people that New England isn't the best of those three you're on your own.

[Chaos]

4 hours ago, Philly McButterpants said:

They won the track meet in last year's playoffs and the D still managed to "eff" it up. 

In other words we lost the track meet

[frostbitmic]

Thoughts on yesterdays defense ... We only gave up 23 points, though their Kicker missed a FG and XP, and we prevented a TD after motor coughed the ball up at the ten.. I saw receivers running free on every play throughout the first three quarters. It didn't appear on most plays like our guys were getting beat but more that they were sitting way back in a prevent type defense. All prevent does is prevent you from winning, think :13 seconds. We made MacCorkle look like a future Hall of Famer.

 

I'm still not sure whose defense this is, Frazier or McDermott. So I don't know where to put praise or who to rag on.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

I think everyone is obviously excited for the playoffs coming up and the recovery of Damar Hamlin, but the elephant in the room (thank you for bringing it up) is the pass defense for sure. Mac Jones was looking like Drew Brees out there hitting everything for most of the game. Without Hines returning those TDs, the game could’ve ended up different. But to answer your question I am very concerned. 

[IndyMark]

20 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The interior D-line needs to step it up or Allen is going to have to win in shootouts.

 And if Phillips and Oliver are as injured as it appears, then it may be better to sit them and suit up Bryant and whomever else is a PS DL.  Truly, the phrase "A 60% healthy Phillips/Oliver is better than a 100% healthy back up" is simply not true. Neither Phillips or Oliver are elite, yet at least Phillips has size. 

 

Their play yesterday suggests they are injured and if so we need to sit them; we need healthy (and preferably) large interior DL. Phillips lasted only, what, 19 snaps and Oliver was truly invisible - and they ran right at him. It is negligent to play someone that injured.

 

Clearly interior DL play is a key part of keeping our linebackers clean on run plays and pressure on the QB on passing plays, if we are unsuccessful with that, then the whole notion of our defensive scheme becomes unstable.

[Billsfan1972]

Watched NFL Live and they were ripping the Bills defense. They said they can't win if they play like that. I guess I'm not the only one worried about the defense.  

 

Simply Josh Allen will need to do it all in the playoffs unless there's a huge change with the D and a lucky bounce here or there ( like on two INTs yesterday).

[Livinginthepast]

16 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Watched NFL Live and they were ripping the Bills defense. They said they can't win if they play like that. I guess I'm not the only one worried about the defense.  

 

Simply Josh Allen will need to do it all in the playoffs unless there's a huge change with the D and a lucky bounce here or there ( like on two INTs yesterday).

I agree. We are going to be in a track meet each game if our defense keeps spotting teams easy TDs and long drives and Josh and the O will have to be close to perfect. 

[Mat68]

Yesterday was Buffalos worst passing defense effort this season imo.  Now they did make plays to offset what they gave up.  I attribute the majority of the issues on limited preparation.  The last week was a blur and a haze for the team.  That was a game won on emotion and heart.  They didnt really do any out scheming.  Just a shorter drop here and alignment here or there and now they have big passing windows.  I expect the defense to play more buttoned up moving forward.

[SirAndrew]

Our greatest hope was always Allen to carrying us to a title. The defense has become a bigger concern than expected however. The situation at safety has been nothing short of catastrophic, but the corner position shouldn’t come as a shock. We started the season with Jackson and Benford on the outside, hoping Elam could become reliable, and for Tre to return. Tre returning to form was always a question mark, and Elam is a rookie. We didn’t go into the season very stable at cornerback, and it shows. 

[stlbills13]

The secondary is not playing well. The front 4/front 7 is not generating enough pressure either. 

 

I would actually go as far to say that Rousseau is the most important player not named Josh Allen this postseason for us. I think you'll see a lot of 4 man rushes so he's gotta get to the QB. Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert, Chase, Higgins, Kelce, Keenan, Williams. Even if you drop 7 back, those guys are gonna make plays if the QB has time in the pocket.

 

A coach once told me 5 is a magic number for defense. If you get a combined 5+ sacks/turnovers, you have done your job

[Joe Ferguson]

Mac Jones carved this Bills defense up like knife thru butter and they have a putrid offense.

Chiefs or Bengals will absolutely annihilate this Bills defense. That's why I'm hoping Josh Allen and the offense will score a lot of points.

All the money and all the draft picks spent on defense and we are depending on the offense to win games.

I only watch Bills game when Josh Allen is on the field then change the channel when he's not because I know this

Bills defense cannot stop good offenses like Chiefs or Bengals.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson

[balln]

18 minutes ago, stlbills13 said:

The secondary is not playing well. The front 4/front 7 is not generating enough pressure either. 

 

I would actually go as far to say that Rousseau is the most important player not named Josh Allen this postseason for us. I think you'll see a lot of 4 man rushes so he's gotta get to the QB. Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert, Chase, Higgins, Kelce, Keenan, Williams. Even if you drop 7 back, those guys are gonna make plays if the QB has time in the pocket.

 

A coach once told me 5 is a magic number for defense. If you get a combined 5+ sacks/turnovers, you have done your job

I actually think they should start rushing 3 and dropping 8. They’re front 4 don’t win. Better having quicker guys out there that can clog / flood zones or spy and chase down mahommes scrambling/ screens / flat throws