Thoughts on the pass defense?

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Yeah, I don’t know how we don’t draft a safety given the uncertainty of Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer doesn’t have a contract yet. I just don’t know that it will be the first round pick.

I think our early picks have to be O-line & WR.  We have to give the face of our franchise protection and weapons.

[balln]

19 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

PPG against

NE - 20.4

Cin - 20.1

KC - 21.7

 

Yds/g against

NE - 322

Cin - 335

KC - 328

 

Sacks

NE - 54

Cin - 30

KC - 55

 

Not really seeing anything there that shows NE is this defensive juggernaut compared to the other 2. Cincy doesn't have the sack numbers, but has a lower ppg.

Cin and kc don’t play against good qbs minus Herbert. Ne has Allen / tua and wr / jets Breece hall / g Wilson 

[Billsfan1972]

34 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Do they?

 

The knock on the Bengals is the O disappears for stretches.  When it is humming it looks unstoppable but then it hits a rut - like yesterday and last week vs NE and you wonder what the heck happened.  

And that's been the problem with the Bills offense.  Just not looking very good.  They are okay and certainly will score 20+ points, but that seems to be it of late. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

These are my thoughts and I’m sure it will be met with negativity 

 

-Dane sucks. Something changed with him and now he just isn’t the same. Please stop playing him and please start Elam. Elam needs to be on the field, even on the TD he gave up he was all over it. He’s probably our best cover CB…he’s big and he’s athletic. That’s the guy we need on the outside.

 

-It’s obvious Tre White has lost at least 1 step. It’s nice to have him out there but the injury changed him. I think at this stage I want Elam on their 1 and Tre on the 2. WRs with speed are going to torch this guy. Love him and thankful for all he did but he’s probably a #2 CB.

 

-I hate the passive approach. This is Fraizers identity. Sit back and let you force death by 1000 cuts. We aren’t getting any pressure sending 4 with Von out. QBs are way too comfortable on 3rd down and our CBS aren’t good enough to hold up. Please start sending pressure on 3rd down. The other team has way too much time to let routes develop 

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, balln said:

Cin and kc don’t play against good qbs minus Herbert. Ne has Allen / tua and wr / jets Breece hall / g Wilson 

We didn't play against Breece Hall and Tua is the only other QB in the Division that can be considered somewhat good.  Mac Jones and whoever the Jets are throwing out there are average at best.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Billz4ever

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

PPG against

NE - 20.4

Cin - 20.1

KC - 21.7

 

Yds/g against

NE - 322

Cin - 335

KC - 328

 

Sacks

NE - 54

Cin - 30

KC - 55

 

Not really seeing anything there that shows NE is this defensive juggernaut compared to the other 2. Cincy doesn't have the sack numbers, but has a lower ppg.

 

Ahhh... so you don't like numbers when it is the Bills defense, but everyone else's defense is just about numbers? Got ya. 

[Billz4ever]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Ahhh... so you don't like numbers when it is the Bills defense, but everyone else's defense is just about numbers? Got ya. 

You're the one that made the claim KC and Cincy aren't on the same D level as NE.  What are you basing that on?

[PrimeTime101]

24 minutes ago, Sargent Hulka said:

If this defense plays in the playoffs like it did yesterday, and the Bills get bounced from the playoffs, I can only hope that it would provide the impetus for Beane to decide to replace Frazier.

this is a horrible take. Mac Jones and NE played a tough game. You act like we are not missing crucial pieces on defense... you know... like we have most of the year?

 

You want to see how good our defense is? go to the first 3 games pre injury.

 

Enough said. HORRIBLE take.

[Wayne Cubed]

22 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

KC averages more points in away games than they do home.

 

KC only averages 25.1 at Arrowhead and 32.8 on the road.

 

Bills average 31.9 at Highmark and only 25.8 on the road.

 

Neutral site AFCCG may play into KC's favor.

 

 

That doesn't answer any thing I put, I see you are just ignoring points that don't agree with your take. What they average home or away has nothing to do with me pointing out that you are making claims and then ignoring when Cincy or KC match those same claims.

[Billz4ever]

10 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

That doesn't answer any thing I put, I see you are just ignoring points that don't agree with your take. What they average home or away has nothing to do with me pointing out that you are making claims and then ignoring when Cincy or KC match those same claims.

And anything I put, you will just do the same, which is why I just made a point about KC and Bills at home vs road.

 

Cincy was up AT NE 22-6 going into the 4th quarter. Outgained NE 442-285 yds.

 

If it weren't for special teams, we probably don't win that game.  This great Bills O was outgained 341 - 327 and outscored 23-21.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Billz4ever

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

You're the one that made the claim KC and Cincy aren't on the same D level as NE.  What are you basing that on?

 

Well look at the overall balance of those numbers that you gave and across just those 3 metrics who comes out the best? Numbers, eye test, the answer is the same. New England have a better D than Cincy and KC. 

 

The one with the logical inconsistency here is you.

[Dopey]

40 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

PPG against

NE - 20.4

Cin - 20.1

KC - 21.7

 

Yds/g against

NE - 322

Cin - 335

KC - 328

 

Sacks

NE - 54

Cin - 30

KC - 55

 

Not really seeing anything there that shows NE is this defensive juggernaut compared to the other 2. Cincy doesn't have the sack numbers, but has a lower ppg.

I watch NE quite a bit and that defense is head and shoulders better than Cin and KC. JMO.

 

INTs 

NE -19 Ints

Cin -13 Ints

KC - 11 Ints

 

TD INTs

NE- 5

Cin - 0

KC - 2

 

 

[Billz4ever]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Well look at the overall balance of those numbers that you gave and across just those 3 metrics who comes out the best? Numbers, eye test, the answer is the same. New England have a better D than Cincy and KC. 

 

The one with the logical inconsistency here is you.

So what you're saying is you can't tell me why NE has a better D.  Gotcha.

[freddyjj]

23 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

These are my thoughts and I’m sure it will be met with negativity 

 

-Dane sucks. Something changed with him and now he just isn’t the same. Please stop playing him and please start Elam. Elam needs to be on the field, even on the TD he gave up he was all over it. He’s probably our best cover CB…he’s big and he’s athletic. That’s the guy we need on the outside.

 

-It’s obvious Tre White has lost at least 1 step. It’s nice to have him out there but the injury changed him. I think at this stage I want Elam on their 1 and Tre on the 2. WRs with speed are going to torch this guy. Love him and thankful for all he did but he’s probably a #2 CB.

 

-I hate the passive approach. This is Fraizers identity. Sit back and let you force death by 1000 cuts. We aren’t getting any pressure sending 4 with Von out. QBs are way too comfortable on 3rd down and our CBS aren’t good enough to hold up. Please start sending pressure on 3rd down. The other team has way too much time to let routes develop 

Bills blitzed on last long TD to Parker albeit was 1st down.  

[Billz4ever]

17 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I watch NE quite a bit and that defense is head and shoulders better than Cin and KC. JMO.

 

INTs 

NE -19 Ints

Cin -13 Ints

KC - 11 Ints

 

TD INTs

NE- 5

Cin - 0

KC - 2

 

 

So you're basing the better defense simply on turnovers?  Because PPG and yards/game doesn't support that.

 

NE went down to Cincy 22-0 in the first half AT HOME and was outgained 442 to 285 in total yards.

 

And for the record, NE has 6 more takeaways than Cincy does but Cincy played 1 less game.  That's what you're basing it on?

Edited January 9, 2023 by Billz4ever

[That's No Moon]

Thoughts? In short? I hate it. It's the antithesis of how I like to play defense, but conceptually you are trying to force the other team to be perfect to beat you. It pairs well with a strong offense like ours because our offense puts pressure on the other team to score touchdowns, not FGs and that forces them to stop taking the check down you are giving them at some point. We saw that yesterday. Eventually Jones had to put the ball in harm's way and it went badly. The issue is, against good QBs, they can put the ball in harm's way and get away with it.

 

I've decided to stop complaining about the defense. It is what it's going to be and having our 3rd safety on the field who is a fringe NFL player at best isn't helping. If the Bills are going to win, they are going to need to score. 40 is the goal every week from here out.

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, That's No Moon said:

Thoughts? In short? I hate it. It's the antithesis of how I like to play defense, but conceptually you are trying to force the other team to be perfect to beat you. It pairs well with a strong offense like ours because our offense puts pressure on the other team to score touchdowns, not FGs and that forces them to stop taking the check down you are giving them at some point. We saw that yesterday. Eventually Jones had to put the ball in harm's way and it went badly. The issue is, against good QBs, they can put the ball in harm's way and get away with it.

 

I've decided to stop complaining about the defense. It is what it's going to be and having our 3rd safety on the field who is a fringe NFL player at best isn't helping. If the Bills are going to win, they are going to need to score. 40 is the goal every week from here out.

Without the kick returns yesterday, that's a very different game since NE wouldn't have had to play the way they did later on.

 

Here's hoping we get more consistent play on offense and defense.

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

So what you're saying is you can't tell me why NE has a better D.  Gotcha.

 

I am saying the numbers are better and the eye test tells you the same. You want some specifics? Okay. The pass rush in New England is fierce which is a particularly bad match up for the Bills and they have versatile vets on the backend that enable them to be very multiple in what coverages they show and then play. There were plays yesterday where it is basically 4 safeties on the field on the back end and then Josh has to hold it an extra second while he figures out who goes where which allows the pass rush to get home. The weakness of the Patriots defense is their linebackers are not the most athletic but that isn't a bad weakness to have against these Bills because we are not a great team at getting it out quick to running backs and slot receivers to exploit the short area quickness. KC for example are much better at linebacker but that doesn't necessarily do much for you vs the Bills. So both raw numbers and matchup the Patriots D is a tougher out. The Bills showed in their one drive last week they can run on Cincy and they can expose their corners. I think Cincy's defense is very well coached. But it isn't super talented.

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am saying the numbers are better and the eye test tells you the same. You want some specifics? Okay. The pass rush in New England is fierce which is a particularly bad match up for the Bills and they have versatile vets on the backend that enable them to be very multiple in what coverages they show and then play. There were plays yesterday where it is basically 4 safeties on the field on the back end and then Josh has to hold it an extra second while he figures out who goes where which allows the pass rush to get home. The weakness of the Patriots defense is their linebackers are not the most athletic but that isn't a bad weakness to have against these Bills because we are not a great team at getting it out quick to running backs and slot receivers to exploit the short area quickness. KC for example are much better at linebacker but that doesn't necessarily do much for you vs the Bills. So both raw numbers and matchup the Patriots D is a tougher out. The Bills showed in their one drive last week they can run on Cincy and they can expose their corners. I think Cincy's defense is very well coached. But it isn't super talented.

I can agree with that, but it's not like KC's pass rush is a bunch of push overs. I'd rather have their's than ours. They actually have 1 more sack than NE does. KC's defense has only generated 20 turnovers this year, which is good for us, but turnovers can be a result of so many different factors, it's hard to say that's an advantage, since you don't know when or where they will happen.

 

What I see wrong with Cincy's D is almost like they let off the gas at times. They've had a tendency to let teams back into games, which is obviously problematic.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

 

What I see wrong with Cincy's D is almost like they let off the gas at times. They've had a tendency to let teams back into games, which is obviously problematic.

 

That is because ultimately they remain undertalented. Especially at corner. They are just not very good there. Even with their inconsitencies and injuried and Tre not yet being Tre I'd take the Bills corners over the Bengals corners in an instant and when teams get down against them and are forced to go pass happy the corners just don't hold up.