NFL Week #18 - Patriots* @ Bills - Post Game Thread

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I just can't understand folks wanting to put blinders on JA17, my god his ability to improvise is the greatest strength this team has.

[fan_in_tx]

1 hour ago, RunTheBall said:

I’m always of the opinion that any W is a good W and this team knows how to win gritty. That’s going to help a lot in the playoffs.

 

I went back and watched the game, obviously not the All-22

 

It’s no surprise to say as Josh goes, so goes the team. I’ve been a big Dorsey critic this season, but my opinion of him has changed these last 4-5 weeks. Dorsey has adjusted to what teams are doing. Yeah I’d like to run a bit more when it’s working, and I’d love to know how many run plays Josh checks out of. But here’s the thing and it’s probably no surprise to anyone - Josh is leaving so much meat on the bone constantly looking for kill shots. This game especially, there were guys open for easy short gains that could turn into big ones and Josh is just refusing to even look that way. That’s why this offense is looking disjointed, Josh is looking for kill shots constantly. If he would just take the short stuff a few times a game it would open up so much more deep. Cook especially is open in the flat almost every time he goes out for easy gains. If Josh even looks his way, it’s way too late in the down. Shakir is getting open at times too, Josh’s doesn’t even look his way. It’s Diggs/Davis/Knox in that order unless it’s a scramble drill.

 

So we are going as far as Josh can take us which is no big revelation. Idk if it’s going to happen but if he just started taking what the defense is giving instead of always trying to impose his will on the opposing defense I think this offense is a jaggarnaut and unstoppable. We still are consistently putting up Mid 20s-30s a game with a disjointed offense so it’s a bit of a hollow complaint but it’s the playoffs now so I think it’s ok to expect better production when it’s being schemed open.

One other note... Josh does not do a good job (nor has he progressed in 3+yrs) of anticipating throw windows.  His arm is strong enough that he can be late on a throw and get it to a spot but how many times have you seen Josh release a in route throw prior to receiver making a cut?   Deep balls, yes, slants , sometimes, Ins/Outs very view. 

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, fan_in_tx said:

One other note... Josh does not do a good job (nor has he progressed in 3+yrs) of anticipating throw windows.  His arm is strong enough that he can be late on a throw and get it to a spot but how many times have you seen Josh release a in route throw prior to receiver making a cut?   Deep balls, yes, slants , sometimes, Ins/Outs very view. 

 This is wrong.  He has definitely improved on anticipations and I have seen quite a few throws where Josh throws the ball before the receiver breaks.  Mostly those were to Diggs.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, fan_in_tx said:

One other note... Josh does not do a good job (nor has he progressed in 3+yrs) of anticipating throw windows.  His arm is strong enough that he can be late on a throw and get it to a spot but how many times have you seen Josh release a in route throw prior to receiver making a cut?   Deep balls, yes, slants , sometimes, Ins/Outs very view. 

He made a pretty good back shoulder throw to Diggs yesterday. Something he's done a few times this year.

 

 

[RunTheBall]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 This is wrong.  He has definitely improved on anticipations and I have seen quite a few throws where Josh throws the ball before the receiver breaks.  Mostly those were to Diggs.

I agree. He had that perfect back shoulder to Diggs, a thing of beauty

[JerseyBills]

This is wild!

I knew 3 years and 3 months but the 2nd return came at 3:03 

😲

 

[Einstein's Dog]

59 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

If you look at my post history, I was calling for Josh Allen to check the ball down more as little as 2 weeks ago but yesterday's game changed my position. If Josh starts checking the ball down and stops trying to extend plays, we lose plays like the TD pass to Knox. On that play, Josh pump-faked to the RB in the flat before pulling the ball down and firing a laser to Knox in the back of the EZ. Josh Allen is not a pocket passer and he doesn't pass the "Tom Brady eye test." He's a Brett Favre or Ben Rothlesburger with much better wheels. The risk taking is part of the Josh Allen experience just like the QB runs.

Not only that but the check down plays themselves do not have the same percentage of completion as other teams or the same level of effectiveness. 

 

For completions i think back to the opening drive of the Jets game, a simple swing pass to Singletary who isn't looking, the play where J Cook stops, the 3 yarder to McKenzie where it bounces off his hands in the Miami game.  And somewhat recently the nonconnection with Beas in Cincy.

For effectiveness, I think back to when Josh, maybe concerned with the catchers would float the ball out.  The hang time of a floated pass was a contributing factor in the play getting very few yards.

 

Now add to that the Bills have on their team one of arguably the top five best ever 20 yard laser throwing QBs and you should be able to understand the opponents strategy of trying to bait the Bills into a dink and dunk contest with the likes of Mac and Cheese or Tua, or anyone really.

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I'm sure this has probably been mentioned in here at some point, in one of the threads, but Mac Jones is definitely a c*nt. The videos are out there of his dirty tactics, the rants on the sideline, the pouting on and off the field, and his stomping around like a pissed off eight year old who didn't get his way. Yesterday, when he tried the QB draw and Lawson popped him at the 2 yd line, he tried to shove Lawson off of him. He is quickly becoming the most unlikeable tw*t in the NFL. 

When he tried to take out Eli Apple's knees earlier this year Florio/Simms actually literally called it a "punk-ass move" - for mainstream media to say things like that about a player tells you something.  I think the reputation is recognized now by players in the league - I saw one play where Taron gave him a little extra taking him down yesterday.  I said yesterday QB is one factor in trying to sign top level FAs - I can't imagine any player wanting to choose to play with that guy - both because of his limited ability and his personality and punchable face.

[Bob in STL]

If there is any player that can put the team on his back and carry them to victory it is Josh Allen.  

 

Yesterday's stats: 

 

Comp ATT   PCT   YDS   TD   INT   QBR  

 

  19       31    61.3    254    3      1    114.8

 

What is wrong with that?   Add in a TD pass that was dropped.   He was hit hard on his pick - probably should have eaten the ball - that was one mistake.   Did he miss a few checkdowns, probably.  He threw three TDs.   We have waited over 20 years for a guy that can do this. 

 

You want to worry about something related to the Bills? 

 

    Think about our depleted secondary helping Mac Jones look like Joe Montana.  

    Or maybe our pass rush without Von Miller.

[RichRiderBills]

51 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It's unfortunately going to take time to ween Josh off the hero ball/ gunslinger mentality. I'm not suggesting we take a large chunk of that out of his game. But he will have to mature and realize the overall value of taking wide open checkdowns for the good of the offense. 

 

Honestly, he did a pretty good job during the bulk of this streak. We ran the ball very well and had some good balance to play calling. 

 

This game was kind of a regression. Most of my blame goes on the playcalling, but Josh deferred on a few noticable easy completions. 

[finn]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The throw to Davis was also spectacular and should have been another TD.

 

 

Allen would be back in the MVP discussion if Davis had done his job and caught the ball in his chest. Four TDs, including three bombs? No one else does that. Davis also dropped the bomb in his chest at the end of the Jets game. Catch those two balls alone, and Allen might be the MVP. 

[Joe Ferguson]

3 Josh Allen Touchdowns.

3 Interceptions.

3 Years and 3 Months since the last #Bills kick-return for a touchdown.

3 more games until the Buffalo Bills make it to the Super Bowl..

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, finn said:

Allen would be back in the MVP discussion if Davis had done his job and caught the ball in his chest. Four TDs, including three bombs? No one else does that. Davis also dropped the bomb in his chest at the end of the Jets game. Catch those two balls alone, and Allen might be the MVP. 

 

One pass is in week 18 is not the difference between winning and losing the MVP.

Come on....

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

59 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But were they really wide open? No matter the game I'm watching the RB's often look wide open. Yet if they get the ball it's a 3 or 4 yard gain on 2nd & 10.  My guess is that defenses often organize themselves in such a way that they want the QB to take the check down and then they rally to the ball.  That's why McCaffrey is so valuable in the check down passing game - he makes the first guy miss and turns a 4 yard gain into an 8 yard gain. Our RB's haven't show the ability to consistently to do that.

 

 

It’s a lot of this, and some ‘the rb sneaks out on a delayed route after a block when the qb is already throwing the ball’

19 minutes ago, finn said:

Allen would be back in the MVP discussion if Davis had done his job and caught the ball in his chest. Four TDs, including three bombs? No one else does that. Davis also dropped the bomb in his chest at the end of the Jets game. Catch those two balls alone, and Allen might be the MVP. 

He would’ve needed like 10 passing tds today lol it’s gonna be tough for him to win mvp if we kept getting unlucky with the weather.  Seems like the weather was bad for a big chunk of games two years in a row now especially in away games

[WideNine]

44 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But were they really wide open? No matter the game I'm watching the RB's often look wide open. Yet if they get the ball it's a 3 or 4 yard gain on 2nd & 10.  My guess is that defenses often organize themselves in such a way that they want the QB to take the check down and then they rally to the ball.  That's why McCaffrey is so valuable in the check down passing game - he makes the first guy miss and turns a 4 yard gain into an 8 yard gain. Our RB's haven't show the ability to consistently to do that.

 

 

 

Has Josh checked it down enough to make this kind of evaluation about our RBs?

 

I honestly don't think so.

 

A runningback who is open in the flat is honestly the last place Allen looks if he looks there at all.

 

The Bills FO targeted a running back like Cook and went after RBs with hands in the offseason (Washington  RB) and acquired Hines because they think this is a gap in our game.

 

Hines is also rather good at kickoff returns.

 

But I think the gap of throwing to a RB is with Allen's habits and processing, not the ability of the players we have.

 

This is not the same as hating on Allen. We have a good if not great offense, and Allen is a engine that makes it run.

 

Utilizing all his weapons though will make it that much harder for teams to defend him the way they do.

 

I think at this point if Dorsey wants to get Cook or our other running backs involved that way he has to simply design plays where throwing to them is Allen's primary read on schedule.

 

So kind of funny, but design the check down plays to isolate our RBs against defenders in the flats at the 2nd level.

 

 

[chongli]

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

10 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Has Josh checked it down enough to make this kind of evaluation about our RBs?

 

I honestly don't think so.

 

A runningback who is open in the flat is honestly the last place Allen looks if he looks there at all.

 

The Bills FO targeted a running back like Cook and went after RBs with hands in the offseason (Washington  RB) and acquired Hines because they think this is a gap in our game.

 

Hines is also rather good at kickoff returns.

 

But I think the gap of throwing to a RB is with Allen's habits and processing, not the ability of the players we have.

 

This is not the same as hating on Allen. We have a good if not great offense, and Allen is a engine that makes it run.

 

Utilizing all his weapons though will make it that much harder for teams to defend him the way they do.

 

I think at this point if Dorsey wants to get Cook or our other running backs involved that way he has to simply design plays where throwing to them is Allen's primary read on schedule.

 

So kind of funny, but design the check down plays to isolate our RBs against defenders in the flats at the 2nd level.

 

 

I’d have to see what specific plays people are talkin about but speaking in general terms a lot of times a receiver looks open on tv because of the broadcast angle but if they switch to the view behind the qb you see a whole bunch of linemen’s hands in the passing lanes.  If the oline is getting steamrolled like ours often is and those defensive linemen get their hands up, those short underneath throws could potentially be a lot more difficult than they look.  

Edited January 9, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[finn]

24 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

One pass is in week 18 is not the difference between winning and losing the MVP.

Come on....

I said two passes, not one. 

 

I think you're underestimating the power of optics and narrative. If Davis catches the bomb in the Jets game, the Bills probably win, and the narrative changes 180 degrees, from "What is wrong with Allen?" to "Still MORE godlike throws from Allen!" And yesterday's performance goes from "Nice job from Allen" to "Did you see Allen throw THREE of the longest TDs this season--in ONE game?" 

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’d have to see what specific plays people are talkin about but speaking in general terms a lot of times a receiver looks open on tv because of the broadcast angle but if they switch to the view behind the qb you see a whole bunch of linemen’s hands in the passing lanes.  If the oline is getting steamrolled like ours often is and those defensive linemen get their hands up, those short underneath throws could potentially be a lot more difficult than they look.  

 

Agree on one point for sure...

 

I think those shorter throws with more touch and predictive accuracy ARE the hardest throws for Allen.

 

Give him a 30 yard out on the opposite side of the field, being chased and on the run, where the ball has to travel 50 yards, and Allen throws it on a frozen rope on time before a defender gets there.

 

Give him an easy swing pass and it often leaves you scratching your head asking where was he throwing that. So he has the 3 point shots down and just needs some work on the layups.

 

And yes, defenders will try to get their hands up to block quick short throws. So throwing lanes around DL players is a thing.

 

With the way our OL can get rolled one would think that screens could be executed better, but we don't try a lot of them and they have a low success rate when we do.

 

Some of that may be how most teams are rushing 4 and 3 defenders against us most times so there are plenty of defenders at the second level that can smother those.

 

Yesterday, NE got home with a 3-man rush. Morse got beat (sucks for OL players because they are usually only noticed when something negative happens), but Allen started to flee the pocket a bit early too and just about ran into the arms of the defender.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by WideNine

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

every bills player goes in to every game, believing they will win. I'll agree the fins can be a challenge, like every team they faced this past season has been a challenge, but they only lost 3 games. I believe they will win and it wont be all on allen just as it wasn't this past game. allen did have a big hand in it, the td pass to digs was phenomenal but the defense played as big a part as well as special teams, which was extra special.

 

some here thought the patsies had a chance, even picked them to win. not to be. 

 

count me in the not too premature to believe they win crowd. I believe they win out. playing the next three games at home. with the finale in Glendale.

 

that's my hot take and I'm sticking to it!

 

GO BILLS!!!

I like your optimism. I am not so confident that they will beat the Bengals if they meet. That's a possible discussion for another time.