NFL Week #18 - Patriots* @ Bills - Post Game Thread

[Fan in Chicago]

25 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Some of those passes were the best I have ever seen, particularly the TD to #16. 

 

Josh imo is now easily the best QB in the NFL.

The Brown catch was fantastic as well, as was the one by Diggs. But the throws were top tier. Long gone are the days when I would see opponents do that and think "we cant we have such shiny things"

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

The Brown catch was fantastic as well, as was the one by Diggs. But the throws were top tier. Long gone are the days when I would see opponents do that and think "we cant we have such shiny things"

The throw to Davis was also spectacular and should have been another TD.

 

 

[JerseyBills]

14 hours ago, Simon said:

He's only turned the ball over twice in the last two years despite leading the team in touches.

It's not an issue for him. 👍

And he was a half second away from securing the fumble . Had the ball and NE guy ripped it away. 

That was a great defensive play. Sometimes you just gotta tip your hat to the opponent 

I personally love the Motor Cook duo

[CincyBillsFan]

27 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I’m always of the opinion that any W is a good W and this team knows how to win gritty. That’s going to help a lot in the playoffs.

 

I went back and watched the game, obviously not the All-22

 

It’s no surprise to say as Josh goes, so goes the team. I’ve been a big Dorsey critic this season, but my opinion of him has changed these last 4-5 weeks. Dorsey has adjusted to what teams are doing. Yeah I’d like to run a bit more when it’s working, and I’d love to know how many run plays Josh checks out of. But here’s the thing and it’s probably no surprise to anyone - Josh is leaving so much meat on the bone constantly looking for kill shots. This game especially, there were guys open for easy short gains that could turn into big ones and Josh is just refusing to even look that way. That’s why this offense is looking disjointed, Josh is looking for kill shots constantly. If he would just take the short stuff a few times a game it would open up so much more deep. Cook especially is open in the flat almost every time he goes out for easy gains. If Josh even looks his way, it’s way too late in the down. Shakir is getting open at times too, Josh’s doesn’t even look his way. It’s Diggs/Davis/Knox in that order unless it’s a scramble drill.

 

So we are going as far as Josh can take us which is no big revelation. Idk if it’s going to happen but if he just started taking what the defense is giving instead of always trying to impose his will on the opposing defense I think this offense is a jaggarnaut and unstoppable. We still are consistently putting up Mid 20s-30s a game with a disjointed offense so it’s a bit of a hollow complaint but it’s the playoffs now so I think it’s ok to expect better production when it’s being schemed open.

I don't think the short passes are as effective as you believe and we're talking about 5 yards NOT 10 yards.  I've seen a lot of check down offenses the last few weeks and they're boring & not very potent.  It works early in a game but over time the defenses adjust and they squeeze those initial 7 yard gains down to 3 yard gains. 

 

IMO the Bills offense looked disjointed for four main reasons yesterday:

 

*  Two KO TD returns meant two less offensive possessions.

 

*  The Pats are a very good defense and a lot of offenses look disjointed against them.

 

*  A couple of dropped asses which stalled out drives.

 

*  Uneven O-line play, particularly with almost immediate pressure up the middle.

 

 

 

 

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't think the short passes are as effective as you believe and we're talking about 5 yards NOT 10 yards.  I've seen a lot of check down offenses the last few weeks and they're boring & not very potent.  It works early in a game but over time the defenses adjust and they squeeze those initial 7 yard gains down to 3 yard gains. 

 

IMO the Bills offense looked disjointed for four main reasons yesterday:

 

*  Two KO TD returns meant two less offensive possessions.

 

*  The Pats are a very good defense and a lot of offenses look disjointed against them.

 

*  A couple of dropped asses which stalled out drives.

 

*  Uneven O-line play, particularly with almost immediate pressure up the middle.

 

 

 

 

Agreed but the Pats are quietly 2nd in the league in sacks

[VaMilBill]

38 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Really proud of the 22 Bills. Brutal schedule , tons of adversity and we're 13-3

 

We need Hines to have a role on offense.  He's such an x factor in space. What happened to the Cook/Hines backfield duo? That could cause defenses nightmares.  Either way he needs to be involved more in some way

There were multiple plays I was frustrated Josh didn't hit the rb underneath.  Looked their way but decided to force it  intermediate. He has to start taking those easy 10+ yards underneath.  Mahomes does that all day. It just adds another element to the O

Not to mention Brady made a living on dump offs. Josh is a smart player, but sometimes he needs to take little victories realizing it will open up the entire offense for him later in the game

[H2o]

I'm sure this has probably been mentioned in here at some point, in one of the threads, but Mac Jones is definitely a c*nt. The videos are out there of his dirty tactics, the rants on the sideline, the pouting on and off the field, and his stomping around like a pissed off eight year old who didn't get his way. Yesterday, when he tried the QB draw and Lawson popped him at the 2 yd line, he tried to shove Lawson off of him. He is quickly becoming the most unlikeable tw*t in the NFL. 

[JerseyBills]

4 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

Not to mention Brady made a living on dump offs. Josh is a smart player, but sometimes he needs to take little victories realizing it will open up the entire offense for him later in the game

Definitely.  I was in the GD thread for the 1st half and was very upset. He had at least 3 incompletions where Motor or Cook was wide open and he saw them, still refused to throw.

 

I been saying this for years actually.  It's my biggest knock against him but I guess that's part of the Allen experience but the coaches need to get in his ear and take them easy yards

[RunTheBall]

13 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't think the short passes are as effective as you believe and we're talking about 5 yards NOT 10 yards.  I've seen a lot of check down offenses the last few weeks and they're boring & not very potent.  It works early in a game but over time the defenses adjust and they squeeze those initial 7 yard gains down to 3 yard gains. 

 

IMO the Bills offense looked disjointed for four main reasons yesterday:

 

*  Two KO TD returns meant two less offensive possessions.

 

*  The Pats are a very good defense and a lot of offenses look disjointed against them.

 

*  A couple of dropped asses which stalled out drives.

 

*  Uneven O-line play, particularly with almost immediate pressure up the middle.

 

 

 

 

That’s the entire point of the post Cinci, if Josh takes those easy gains early it forces NE to adjust by clamping down and opens up more intermediate/deep stuff.

 

And it’s a minimum 5 yards with most of these throws. Then you have Cook out in space with the ball one on one with a LB or Shakir open for YAC.

 

You can argue that taking the short stuff won’t be as effective but you can’t argue that the plays are there to be made and Josh isn’t even looking that way let alone taking them.

[Low Positive]

If you look at my post history, I was calling for Josh Allen to check the ball down more as little as 2 weeks ago but yesterday's game changed my position. If Josh starts checking the ball down and stops trying to extend plays, we lose plays like the TD pass to Knox. On that play, Josh pump-faked to the RB in the flat before pulling the ball down and firing a laser to Knox in the back of the EZ. Josh Allen is not a pocket passer and he doesn't pass the "Tom Brady eye test." He's a Brett Favre or Ben Rothlesburger with much better wheels. The risk taking is part of the Josh Allen experience just like the QB runs.

Edited January 9, 2023 by FrenchConnection

[Wraith]

13 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't think the short passes are as effective as you believe and we're talking about 5 yards NOT 10 yards.  I've seen a lot of check down offenses the last few weeks and they're boring & not very potent.  It works early in a game but over time the defenses adjust and they squeeze those initial 7 yard gains down to 3 yard gains. 

 

IMO the Bills offense looked disjointed for four main reasons yesterday:

 

*  Two KO TD returns meant two less offensive possessions.

 

*  The Pats are a very good defense and a lot of offenses look disjointed against them.

 

*  A couple of dropped asses which stalled out drives.

 

*  Uneven O-line play, particularly with almost immediate pressure up the middle.

 

 

 

 

The calls for more check downs from some today is so bizarre to me. Here is the Bills passing in the first half by drive:

 

1) 3/4, 14 yards, 4.6 yards/completion, Punt

2) 5/8, 64 yards, 12.8 yards/completion, Touchdown

3) 3/4, 12 yards, 4.0 yards/completion, Punt

4) 1/4, 6 yards, 6.0 yards/completion, Interception

 

Second half total:

 

7/11, 158 yards, 22.5 yards/completion

 

The Bills were throwing short a ton and it was clearly not working well. In the one good drive in the first half, they opened it up and had receptions of 16, 9, 16, and 19 before the TD pass of 4 yards. 

[Low Positive]

9 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The calls for more check downs from some today is so bizarre to me. Here is the Bills passing in the first half by drive:

 

1) 3/4, 14 yards, 4.6 yards/completion, Punt

2) 5/8, 64 yards, 12.8 yards/completion, Touchdown

3) 3/4, 12 yards, 4.0 yards/completion, Punt

4) 1/4, 6 yards, 6.0 yards/completion, Interception

 

Second half total:

 

7/11, 158 yards, 22.5 yards/completion

 

The Bills were throwing short a ton and it was clearly not working well. In the one good drive in the first half, they opened it up and had receptions of 16, 9, 16, and 19 before the TD pass of 4 yards. 

Fans want the offense to do whatever they are not doing.

• Not running a lot? RUN THE BALL, DABOLL!
• Running a lot? STOP WITH THE RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT HACKETT!
• Taking a lot of deep shots? CHECK THE BALL DOWN, DORSEY!
• Checking down a lot? THROW THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD, TYROD!

[Billz4ever]

29 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

If you look at my post history, I was calling for Josh Allen to check the ball down more as little as 2 weeks ago but yesterday's game changed my position. If Josh starts checking the ball down and stops trying to extend plays, we lose plays like the TD pass to Knox. On that play, Josh pump-faked to the RB in the flat before pulling the ball down and firing a laser to Knox in the back of the EZ. Josh Allen is not a pocket passer and he doesn't pass the "Tom Brady eye test." He's a Brett Favre or Ben Rothlesburger with much better wheels. The risk taking is part of the Josh Allen experience just like the QB runs.

There's definitely a time and place for the checkdowns.  I have no problem with Josh creating and putting the ball where only the receiver can get it like on the TD to Smoke. Josh gets himself into trouble when he starts forcing the ball into double coverage, where the defenders have a better play on the ball than the receiver does.  Those are the plays where the checkdowns are the correct answer.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Not at the table Karlos]

11 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

For a team that relies heavily on communication from their safeties, disguising looks/etc...it just looked out of sync today.

 

But that's understandable given what went down this week and Marlowes 1st game out there.   

 

I fully expect they will get things cleaned up for Miami, and be playing faster/in position

I noticed Tre and Marlowe going back and forth on a few calls. Tre seemed to be correcting Dean. Right up to the snap at times. I think Milano corrected both of them on one play. 

[Since1981]

36 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Josh is a smart player, but sometimes he needs to take little victories realizing it will open up the entire offense for him later in the game

I agree, then I realize, ummm 12-3.

On all the TDs, I saw RB in the flat "wide open"--I yelled a couple times!

BUT, I'll keep my JA17 blinders on while we are #2 seed. If we lose in playoffs, it is our secondary--Just like last year. Hyde/Poyer healthy...dreams do come true

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Being reckless and dumb we don't need. Not being who we are and staying aggressive is also dumb. Every opponent is trying to stop Josh from making chunk plays- I wonder why? We know the answer. His ability to go off script and make plays like the Brown play yesterday is our greatest strength!

Edited January 9, 2023 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[LABILLBACKER]

43 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Definitely.  I was in the GD thread for the 1st half and was very upset. He had at least 3 incompletions where Motor or Cook was wide open and he saw them, still refused to throw.

 

I been saying this for years actually.  It's my biggest knock against him but I guess that's part of the Allen experience but the coaches need to get in his ear and take them easy yards

It's unfortunately going to take time to ween Josh off the hero ball/ gunslinger mentality. I'm not suggesting we take a large chunk of that out of his game. But he will have to mature and realize the overall value of taking wide open checkdowns for the good of the offense. 

[AlfaBill]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It's unfortunately going to take time to ween Josh off the hero ball/ gunslinger mentality. I'm not suggesting we take a large chunk of that out of his game. But he will have to mature and realize the overall value of taking wide open checkdowns for the good of the offense. 

Meanwhile 3 AFCE titles later, 5000 yards of offense, 40ish tds, numerous bills passing records, and aGabe Davis TD bomb drop from a real blow out and people here want to change Josh’s game. 
 

oy vey. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't think the short passes are as effective as you believe and we're talking about 5 yards NOT 10 yards.  I've seen a lot of check down offenses the last few weeks and they're boring & not very potent.  It works early in a game but over time the defenses adjust and they squeeze those initial 7 yard gains down to 3 yard gains. 

 

IMO the Bills offense looked disjointed for four main reasons yesterday:

 

*  Two KO TD returns meant two less offensive possessions.

 

*  The Pats are a very good defense and a lot of offenses look disjointed against them.

 

*  A couple of dropped asses which stalled out drives.

 

*  Uneven O-line play, particularly with almost immediate pressure up the middle.

 

 

 

 

Also I don’t think josh really trusts singletary to catch the ball

[CincyBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

I agree, then I realize, ummm 12-3.

On all the TDs, I saw RB in the flat "wide open"--I yelled a couple times!

BUT, I'll keep my JA17 blinders on while we are #2 seed. If we lose in playoffs, it is our secondary--Just like last year. Hyde/Poyer healthy...dreams do come true

But were they really wide open? No matter the game I'm watching the RB's often look wide open. Yet if they get the ball it's a 3 or 4 yard gain on 2nd & 10.  My guess is that defenses often organize themselves in such a way that they want the QB to take the check down and then they rally to the ball.  That's why McCaffrey is so valuable in the check down passing game - he makes the first guy miss and turns a 4 yard gain into an 8 yard gain. Our RB's haven't show the ability to consistently to do that.