Mahomes vs Allen or Mahomes vs Burrow

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 You didn't mention Cam reaching the Super Bowl or MVP u like Josh up thread in your response to me? Yeah, ok, act as though you were only talking longevity.

 

 Josh is simply telling the media exactly what's being told to him, has he changed his game? Don't you think he would if he thought that was the case. Actions always speak louder than words. If you noticed all the talk about him running has gone way down over the course of the last 2 seasons, why because he doesn't get hurt when he runs. On all 537 attempts. Besides 1 concussion in early 2019, he's only been hurt when he's been in the pocket. That's a fact.

 

 

 

So what’s your point? You’re  saying allen can play qb like he does now for 15 years?

[Lfod]

I thought it was already established that Josh was a Unicorn the puppy talk is very strange. 

 

Josh doesn't have the SB win or even the appearance so that kind of hurts him in the great QB debate.

 

He's good enough to be in the discussion that good enough for me. He has put the team in a position to advance in the playoffs with literal seconds left. 

 

Sure he runs around but let's not act like he doesn't shred defenses with the passing game. He has some sloppy games but the team record is fantastic and he basically carries the team on his shoulders. 

 

It's one thing for the media to catch feelings for all these great QBs when they debate the best but as a Bills fan I don't know how you have Josh Allen as your QB but you still dreaming of Mahomes and Burrow. 

 

Josh is a puppy and you are a Bengals fan. Better order that Burrow jersey and don't want to hear you ever say Josh is the greatest only after he gets that SB ring. 

 

The best fans represent before the great stuff happens the rest we call bandwagon fans. We all have Josh Allen but some of you really deserve to have Tua.

 

Then again if he didn't run around and threw the ball away or took sacks the same people bothered by him running around would be mad because that's one less positive play every time he doesn't super man it. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Lfod

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

9 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So what’s your point? You’re  saying allen can play qb like he does now for 15 years?

 

 

 At no point did I say that, he's young and can play that way for as long as he sees fit. All that time on Cam and heck we haven't even got to your 2nd analogy yet.😂

 

 So let's move to Big Ben, shall we. What you say is a detriment to Josh are some of the same exact things Ben did for the first 10 years of his career. He always was trying to by time to throw the deep pass, hardly ever checking it down. You see one as playing "hero ball" while the other you talk of longevity and Canton.

 

 Ben in the 1st half of his career I would argue took more hits and more big hits than Josh ever has thought of taking. The hits Ben took were just different in nature, one takes extra hits running the ball, the other took a ton of extra hits trying to buy time in and outside the pocket. He constantly had defenders hanging on him while other defenders were just teeing off on him. Do you not remember this? It's literally what he was known for, buying time and taking the big hit to get a big play downfield. The hits were just coming on the opposite sides of the line of scrimmage.

 

  I will still say Cam and Ben took far more big hits than Josh has to this point of their careers, I don't think it's close. Yet 1 out of those 2 played alot longer than the other & is going to Canton, while the other isn't. Which was my original point, human bodies can take various amounts of punishment. Some wear out far earlier than others.

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 

 At no point did I say that, he's young and can play that way for as long as he sees fit. All that time on Cam and heck we haven't even got to your 2nd analogy yet.😂

 

 So let's move to Big Ben, shall we. What you say is a detriment to Josh are some of the same exact things Ben did for the first 10 years of his career. He always was trying to by time to throw the deep pass, hardly ever checking it down. You see one as playing "hero ball" while the other you talk of longevity and Canton.

 

 Ben in the 1st half of his career I would argue took more hits and more big hits than Josh ever has thought of taking. The hits Ben took were just different in nature, one takes extra hits running the ball, the other took a ton of extra hits trying to buy time in and outside the pocket. He constantly had defenders hanging on him while other defenders were just teeing off on him. Do you not remember this? It's literally what he was known for, buying time and taking the big hit to get a big play downfield. The hits were just coming on the opposite sides of the line of scrimmage.

 

  I will still say Cam and Ben took far more big hits than Josh has to this point of their careers, I don't think it's close. Yet 1 out of those 2 played alot longer than the other & is going to Canton, while the other isn't. Which was my original point, human bodies can take various amounts of punishment. Some wear out far earlier than others.

 

 

 

So your point is josh doesn’t take many hits based on his play style and won’t get hurt anyway?

Edited January 8, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, Kiva said:

Both burrow and Mahomes are over rated. Josh could be the best if he’d play consistently. 

They are hardly over rated

 Both are excellent players, albeit different sorts.
and the Josh if thing.
Allen leads the Bills in so many ways . But yep he does get overwound at times. That will work itself out i feel.
 

Burrow

This kid can play football. Super efficient and smart. he scares me as much as Mahomies does lol
But its not Josh vs any of them
Its our Mcd and Frazier and our Defense against either of them. Thats where we should be focused perhaps ?

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

51 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So your point is josh doesn’t take many hits based on his play style and won’t get hurt anyway?

 

 

I love passive aggressive people, who have nothing to offer except the above. You're a peach!!!

 

 No, I'm saying if you're going to present examples during an argument, don't provide garbage examples. It's lazy, like a sloth. 😉

 

  I am saying that you trying to say Josh's career is either going to be like Cam's or Ben's based purely on hits taken and checking the ball down is ludicrous using those 3 examples. All 3 took a lot hits their 1st 5 years(And beyond for the former QBs). And Big Ben's game wasn't checking the ball down until late into his career.

 

 He was always a guy looking to push the ball downfield, heroball as you called it and took alot of punishment for doing. Last 2 years of his career that's all they talked about was he was so beat up because he had taken so many big hits playing that way. Any Pitts game last year, that's all they talked about while Pitt was on offense.

 

 All that makes your Josh can't make Canton cause he runs and doesn't check down argument moot. Ben playing so long also shoots down your argument that Josh can't play a long successful career if he takes hits. And you're the one who gave the examples. I'm starting to question what you've retained during your over 29 years fanhood, because you seemed to forgotten these things. I really don't understand your examples and/or argument because they just don't jive.😂

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Mikie2times]

2 hours ago, Lfod said:

I thought it was already established that Josh was a Unicorn the puppy talk is very strange. 

 

Josh doesn't have the SB win or even the appearance so that kind of hurts him in the great QB debate.

 

He's good enough to be in the discussion that good enough for me. He has put the team in a position to advance in the playoffs with literal seconds left. 

 

Sure he runs around but let's not act like he doesn't shred defenses with the passing game. He has some sloppy games but the team record is fantastic and he basically carries the team on his shoulders. 

 

It's one thing for the media to catch feelings for all these great QBs when they debate the best but as a Bills fan I don't know how you have Josh Allen as your QB but you still dreaming of Mahomes and Burrow. 

 

Josh is a puppy and you are a Bengals fan. Better order that Burrow jersey and don't want to hear you ever say Josh is the greatest only after he gets that SB ring. 

 

The best fans represent before the great stuff happens the rest we call bandwagon fans. We all have Josh Allen but some of you really deserve to have Tua.

 

Then again if he didn't run around and threw the ball away or took sacks the same people bothered by him running around would be mad because that's one less positive play every time he doesn't super man it. 

😄 I've been a a fan since 1991 when I was 9 years old. Real bandwagon type.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

i don’t  know how much football you watched but Cam was widely considered one of the best QBs in football for several years. It’s not a slight to Josh. 
 

if you homers would just settle down for a minute;

 

1) Josh is great, but he takes a ton of hits because the ball rarely comes out quickly and he runs a lot

2) even he says he is not sure how long he’ll play because of how he plays. 

3) cam was a top QB in the league for several years

4) he fell of a cliff quickly around 30

5) he played a physical style of football and was most of his teams offense until he wasn’t 

If it’s possible to park the histrionics for a minute, and have a little objectivity… consider that if Allen would add some quick short passing and check downs to his repertoire it would be good.
 

It’s often there and wide open and would distribute to hits to the rest of the roster a bit. 

but sure just go on believing Josh will be hurdling safeties  when he is 32 and rushing for 80 yards a game. 

 

Cam was a top QB for one year IMO, his MVP year. Beyond that year he was probably top 15-8 any given year. But Josh has been top 5 three years running now. Cam never had that consistency at that high a level. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Josh Allen has 175 touchdowns and is the same age as Burrow. One is a terrific QB… the other can carry a team on his back by himself.  Draw your own conclusions which is  which. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

22 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 

I love passive aggressive people, who have nothing to offer except the above. You're a peach!!!

 

 No, I'm saying if you're going to present examples during an argument, don't provide garbage examples. It's lazy, like a sloth. 😉

 

  I am saying that you trying to say Josh's career is either going to be like Cam's or Ben's based purely on hits taken and checking the ball down is ludicrous using those 3 examples. All 3 took a lot hits their 1st 5 years(And beyond for the former QBs). And Big Ben's game wasn't checking the ball down until late into his career.

 

 He was always a guy looking to push the ball downfield, heroball as you called it and took alot of punishment for doing. Last 2 years of his career that's all they talked about was he was so beat up because he had taken so many big hits playing that way. Any Pitts game last year, that's all they talked about while Pitt was on offense.

 

 All that makes your Josh can't make Canton cause he runs and doesn't check down argument moot. Ben playing so long also shoots down your argument that Josh can't play a long successful career if he takes hits. And you're the one who gave the examples. I'm starting to question what you've retained during your over 29 years fanhood, because you seemed to forgotten these things. I really don't understand your examples and/or argument because they just don't jive.😂

 

 

 

You’re not really arguing any point other than putting your fingers in your ears and saying “wrong wrong wrong”. 
 

one more time nice and slow….
 

Cam Newton

Ben Roethlesberger

 

two examples of QBs similar in stature, with different playing styles.
 

One lasted a lot longer than the other, I suggest foremost because of their playing style. 

 

I suggest Allen plays the game more like Cam than Ben and believe if he adjusted it would extend his career. 
 

along the way you got all contorted into handwringing that it was suggesting cam and Josh we’re equivalently skilled and apparently you have some visceral fear of that comparison.  I just pointed out their per game averages are similar, with data, and suggested he even had some achievements so it’s not belittling Allen. 
 

you: Josh is better lalalala

 

um ok. 
 

Also from Josh Allen himself- paraphrasing… the way I play that game I probably won’t have a Brady long type career 

 

Or just argue with this article making almost the same point.., 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/9/30/20890975/josh-allens-play-style-needs-to-develop-for-him-to-have-longevity

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

48 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

You’re not really arguing any point other than putting your fingers in your ears and saying “wrong wrong wrong”. 
 

one more time nice and slow….
 

Cam Newton

Ben Roethlesberger

 

two examples of QBs similar in stature, with different playing styles.
 

One lasted a lot longer than the other, I suggest foremost because of their playing style. 

 

I suggest Allen plays the game more like Cam than Ben and believe if he adjusted it would extend his career. 
 

along the way you got all contorted into handwringing that it was suggesting cam and Josh we’re equivalently skilled and apparently you have some visceral fear of that comparison.  I just pointed out their per game averages are similar, with data, and suggested he even had some achievements so it’s not belittling Allen. 
 

you: Josh is better lalalala

 

um ok. 
 

Also from Josh Allen himself- paraphrasing… the way I play that game I probably won’t have a Brady long type career 

 

Or just argue with this article making almost the same point.., 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/9/30/20890975/josh-allens-play-style-needs-to-develop-for-him-to-have-longevity

 

 

 No one has a Brady long type career, except Brady. Way to use a one off as your example.

 

 And as I said in my last post, while they MAY have different playing styles Cam, Ben and Josh have/had taken alot of hits in their 1st 5 years. You can’t deny that, it's 100% true. It doesn't matter what style of play you have, it the hits you take and how well your body takes them. Of your examples one played alot longer than the other, but not because he wasn't getting hit alot or taking big hits, Ben's career was predicated on taking those hits to hit big plays. That's 100% factual as well. So if that was all you were discussing, where did the checking down come in. Which also was not Ben's game until the last part of his career. You are the one putting fingers in their ears. Never had a more frustrating conversation in here in 10 years.  Now go ahead and respond with some more of your passive aggressive bullsh!t.

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

16 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

…It doesn't matter what style of play you have…

 

Finally we got to the point…. 
 

Yes it abosofuggenlutely does matter what style of play you have. 
 

Ben and Cam took same hits/abuse? Prove that- I don’t believe it

Edited January 8, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Finally we got to the point…. 
 

Yes it abosofuggenlutely does matter what style of play you have. 
 

Ben and Cam took same hits/abuse? Prove that- I don’t believe it

 

 I don't have to prove anything to you. He was well known for buying time and taking hits, with defenders already draped on him to hit the long ball. Not good enough for ya, too bad. You still haven't addressed the fact of out of the 3 injuries( 2 elbow injuries, 1 separated shoulder) Allen has had, all 3 have occurred in the pocket, attempting to throw the ball, not while running it. Blows your whole argument right out of the water.🤯

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

27 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 I don't have to prove anything to you. He was well known for buying time and taking hits, with defenders already draped on him to hit the long ball. Not good enough for ya, too bad. You still haven't addressed the fact of out of the 3 injuries( 2 elbow injuries, 1 separated shoulder) Allen has had, all 3 have occurred in the pocket, attempting to throw the ball, not while running it. Blows your whole argument right out of the water.🤯

 

 

 

🙄 

shoulder was not in pocket- don’t forget the concussion.  

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[TampaBillsJunkie]

On 1/6/2023 at 9:35 PM, Kiva said:

Both burrow and Mahomes are over rated. Josh could be the best if he’d play consistently. 

could, just isn't right now. Too many mistakes.

[LanderPoke]

Has anyone mentioned Josh has played with a injury to his THROWING ARM most of the year? 
 

The only other qb in Josh’s stratosphere is mahomes.  When you factor in Josh’s legs he’s a much better QB than burrow. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by LanderPoke

[JaCrispy]

Honestly, you can’t go wrong with either matchup…

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

You’re not really arguing any point other than putting your fingers in your ears and saying “wrong wrong wrong”. 
 

one more time nice and slow….
 

Cam Newton

Ben Roethlesberger

 

two examples of QBs similar in stature, with different playing styles.

 

Cam never had the ability to win games consistently with his arm like Allen can. Allen’s had three consecutive seasons before the age of 27 that were all basically as good as Cam’s best season. 
 

Allen isn’t Cam and he’s not Big Ben. He has different parts of both and then some others. I wouldn’t bet against Allen being a top 5 QB for the next 5 years. That’s good enough for me. If he wants to hang it up after year 10 no problem. But he will have about 8 consecutive years of top 5 QB play at that point while Newton will have one such year out of his entire 11 year career.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

🙄 

shoulder was not in pocket- don’t forget the concussion.  

 

 

 The shoulder injury occurred behind the line of scrimmage on a pass attempt though, not a run. A short pass to Diggs. A single concussion in a 5 year span will have no impact on the length of his career. You're reaching here.

 

 

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

🙄 

shoulder was not in pocket- don’t forget the concussion.  

 

the shoulder was scrambling to throw. AKA picture perfect Big Ben play so your whole Big Ben argument is shot to pieces. Fact is all of Allen’s most serious injuries that would effect his ability to throw have been from plays where he was in fact throwing. 
 

1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 The shoulder injury occurred behind the line of scrimmage on a pass attempt though, not a run. A short pass to Diggs. A single concussion in a 5 year span will have no impact on the length of his career. You're reaching here.

 

 

 

 

I just don’t understand this fanhood poster. He’s basically hoping Allen has a short career at this point so he can be proven right for some sick reason.