Mahomes vs Allen or Mahomes vs Burrow

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Alright, you just lost 100% credibility with the Cam Newton line.😂😂😂😂😂Talk about going way over the top just to try and prove a point. Josh's last 3 years have all been better than Cam's best year and it'll keep going like that for another 10-15 years. Their careers are exactly alike except for the completion percentage(sub 60), yards(only 32,000 in 11 seasons, 218 ypg) and td to int ration(194 tds, 123 ints). Yup besides all those things(Basically everything to do QB play) they'll be identical. Cam Newton career, damn I ain't heard something that funny in awhile.😂😂😂😂😂

 

 

 

not sure what you ‘ain’t’ or have heard. When I speak of Cam v Ben Its in reference to longevity and Canton. 
 

But if you want to talk about accolades, league mvps and first team all pro? Super Bowl appearances, Which one??

 

And since it was brought up, check it out, Josh career stats are nearly identical to Cam on average… and his career totals are right around the half way point of cams in just about every category. Didn’t even think of it but his stats are more cam like than

imagined. 

 

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=AlleJo02&player_id1=NewtCa00&sum=0&request=1

Edited January 7, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Low Positive]

Bills fans are the most miserable fans of a successful team in NFL history. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

You watch Allen and Mahomes play and you instantly see and know why they are special QB's. You watch Burrow play and you don't know why he is so great but he is. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

not sure what you ‘ain’t’ or have heard. When I speak of Cam v Ben Its in reference to longevity and Canton. 
 

But if you want to talk about accolades, league mvps and first team all pro? Super Bowl appearances, Which one??

 

And since it was brought up, check it out, Josh career stats are nearly identical to Cam on average… and his career totals are right around the half way point of cams in just about every category. Didn’t even think of it but his stats are more cam like than

imagined. 

 

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=AlleJo02&player_id1=NewtCa00&sum=0&request=1

 

Allen career numbers and averages dwarfs Cam in pretty much every single category. And that doesn't even take into the fact that Allen's first two seasons were by far his worst, while Cam's first two seasons in the league were a couple of his better seasons overall. As Allen continues to play longer his first two seasons hold less weight in his overall numbers.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

Bills fans are the most miserable fans of a successful team in NFL history. 

 

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

You watch Allen and Mahomes play and you instantly see and know why they are special QB's. You watch Burrow play and you don't know why he is so great but he is. 

 

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Allen career numbers and averages dwarfs Cam in pretty much every single category. And that doesn't even take into the fact that Allen's first two seasons were by far his worst, while Cam's first two seasons in the league were a couple of his better seasons overall. As Allen continues to play longer his first two seasons hold less weight in his overall numbers.

i don’t  know how much football you watched but Cam was widely considered one of the best QBs in football for several years. It’s not a slight to Josh. 
 

if you homers would just settle down for a minute;

 

1) Josh is great, but he takes a ton of hits because the ball rarely comes out quickly and he runs a lot

2) even he says he is not sure how long he’ll play because of how he plays. 

3) cam was a top QB in the league for several years

4) he fell of a cliff quickly around 30

5) he played a physical style of football and was most of his teams offense until he wasn’t 

If it’s possible to park the histrionics for a minute, and have a little objectivity… consider that if Allen would add some quick short passing and check downs to his repertoire it would be good.
 

It’s often there and wide open and would distribute to hits to the rest of the roster a bit. 

but sure just go on believing Josh will be hurdling safeties  when he is 32 and rushing for 80 yards a game. 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Einstein]

I don’t know what OP was, but Burrow was definitely impressive in the little we saw of him.

[Low Positive]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I don’t know what OP was, but Burrow was definitely impressive in the little we saw of him.

Would you trade Josh for him? 

[Utah John]

Comparisons of top players are fun but they resolve nothing.  It's the results on the field that matter.  Mahomes and Allen take turns beating each other.  Burrow so far always beats Mahomes.  We have a sample size of 0.03 for Allen v Burrows so the jury's still out. 

 

There are four excellent QBs in the AFC -- Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert.  Lawrence is just outside that group but could join soon.  That's a lot of great competition.  They're all different people and have different strengths as QBs.  I think Burrow and Herbert are the best pure passers. Allen and Mahomes are the best runners but have the strongest arms and can still be really good passers.  Allen is the most emotional.  Allen is also the most likely to be inconsistent for large parts of games -- but when he's on, Good Lord it's amazing. They're all great leaders.  All of them are good enough to win on any given Sunday, even against the other group members, and no one would think it was a fluke or an upset.  They all have GMs building teams around them, but Mahomes and Allen have been around the longest which means they're the most expensive for their team's salary cap.  Possibly as a result, Mahomes and Allen have the weakest receiver groups to throw to.  Allen has Diggs, Mahomes has Kelce, and then there's a bunch of JAGs on both teams.  For the other two, there are multiple top-level threats.  The Bills have focused their investments more on defense than the other three, and except for the jinx of the DB room (reminds me of Spinal Tap's drummers) have the best defense of the four.  I think the Bills have the most complete team, and we have a better shot than any of the others at the SB, but our chances are still less than 50%.  Maybe Bills 35%, Bengals and Chiefs at 25% each, and Chargers at 15%.  I will be shocked if any other team makes it this year.  

[Airseven]

Mahomes is the best overall and most accomplished by any measure. Allen is an athletic powerhouse but book-ended two incredible playoff games with two incredibly inconsistent seasons. He’s still erratic. Burrow is the best pure passer with a Super Bowl appearance under his belt. 
 

Rank order is tough. Fair arguments can be made for Burrow and Allen in either order behind Mahomes - followed by a third tier including Hurts, Herbert, Jackson, and Prescott. Vets like Brady, Rodgers, and Stafford are a unique category difficult to intermix with the ascenders.

 

Lawrence will earn his place in all this soon.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Airseven

[SRQ_BillsFan]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

i don’t  know how much football you watched but Cam was widely considered one of the best QBs in football for several years. It’s not a slight to Josh. 
 

if you homers would just settle down for a minute;

 

1) Josh is great, but he takes a ton of hits because the ball rarely comes out quickly and he runs a lot

2) even he says he is not sure how long he’ll play because of how he plays. 

3) cam was a top QB in the league for several years

4) he fell of a cliff quickly around 30

5) he played a physical style of football and was most of his teams offense until he wasn’t 

If it’s possible to park the histrionics for a minute, and have a little objectivity… consider that if Allen would add some quick short passing and check downs to his repertoire it would be good.
 

It’s often there and wide open and would distribute to hits to the rest of the roster a bit. 

but sure just go on believing Josh will be hurdling safeties  when he is 32 and rushing for 80 yards a game. 

 

Josh is Josh Allen, he isn’t Cam that’s a lazy analogy started by the media. 
 

Josh is not a clone or a copy of Cam. He is much better. 

[Mikie2times]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

It sounds like you just live under a rock. Nobody is talking about Burrow? Uh, yes they are. He is viewed as a top QB in the NFL. He gets plenty of respect from fans and media.

The rock I live under is this forum, as this forum is about the only place I go for sports entertainment outside of gameday. The point of this thread was not to debate if Josh Allen is a puppy, while I made the analogy, so be it if people feel it is off. He has indeed acted like Cujo at times if we wish to keep this on the dog references, but again, in my eyes his disposition is still excitable and erratic and somewhat child like and I love him for all these reasons just as much as I find these reasons some cause for concern.

 

In the end why I posted this was a half bottle of Weller Antique, which was delightful. Along with an overwhelming feeling I got when I watched the video I posted on Joe B. As far as going oh Sh!t, this guy is a stone cold killer. Myself, along with this forum, have chronically failed to recognize the threat that is Joe B along with the Bengals. When in fact him and that team have already been further than our team ever has. Which makes me even more concerned as our team has never had the benefit of playing with a chip on our shoulder but for some reason, the Bengals are allowed to do so. Then, in the only snap of time we have ever seen these guys/teams tangle, it felt very Colt like. We would have scored our fair share, but we were getting smacked until the incident with Hamlin occurred. I couldn't possibly take anybody over Josh but we are in for a real crapshoot for a long time here. Herbert hasn't even fully risen, Burrow and his cast ARE just as good as KC. Lawrence is sort of just waving asking for some press.

 

How any team could ever be an overwhelming favorite as ours was anointed in this sea of QB excellence is beyond me. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

not sure what you ‘ain’t’ or have heard. When I speak of Cam v Ben Its in reference to longevity and Canton. 
 

But if you want to talk about accolades, league mvps and first team all pro? Super Bowl appearances, Which one??

 

And since it was brought up, check it out, Josh career stats are nearly identical to Cam on average… and his career totals are right around the half way point of cams in just about every category. Didn’t even think of it but his stats are more cam like than

imagined. 

 

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=AlleJo02&player_id1=NewtCa00&sum=0&request=1

 

 If you watched Cam play and Josh play and can't see the difference in quality of QB play, I don't know what to tell you. As you can see, you're the only one who believes or agrees with what you are saying. How exactly is Josh's career 135 tds  59 ints anywhere near an identical average at the halfway point than Cam's 194/123? That's not even remotely close. And that's with Josh starting his career with 13 tds & 18 ints in his 1st 16 games, it's been 122 tds & 41 ints, since Josh's 3 int game against NE in early 2019.

 

Cam did win MVP and as I said, Josh's passing stats in 3 different years have been as good or better than that. Cam had Brady & Rodgers to beat out, there's a whole lot more competition at QB for MVP nowadays. Super Bowl vs no Super Bowl I never count because it has more to do with team, players and coaching vs what 1 player did. Couple of questions, statically who has the best playoff season ever by a QB? Who has the highest QB Rating in the playoffs for a career? Who has the best td to int ratio ever in a playoff career? 

Remind me again who holds the record for most tds in 1st 5 years in the league, that's right it was Cam, no it was Big Ben, no Tom Brady, no Mahomes, no Lamar, no Rodgers, no definitely Marino. Damn, I forgot who that was.

 

 Is it Josh's fault whatsoever we didn't win a Super Bowl last year? 48/62  637 yards, 77.4%,  9 tds  0 ints  QB Rating of 148.99 in just 2 games(Cam only has 10 passing tds combined in 7 career playoff games). Burrow only threw for 5 tds in 4 playoff games last year. Cam's career playoff QB Rating is a full 20 points lower than Josh's at 87.7 and Josh has already thrown more tds and 6 less ints than Cam's playoff career. Josh led Buffalo to 12 tds on 16 total drives last year in the playoffs. Scoring tds on 75% of ALL drives in the playoffs, a td percent that's never been seen before by a team in the postseason. But yup let's blame Josh for being superhuman and putting up passing numbers, that even the greatest of the greats have never accomplished, even when talking playoff careers. 

 

 As far as longevity is concerned, again I question just how much you watched Cam's games back in the day or rememberwhat happened. The difference in hits he took vs the hits Josh has taken are night and day. Adter the first year or 2 in the league Cam consistently got blown up all over the field, whether in the open field or in the pocket. So much so he started having meetings with the NFL higher ups and Goodell about it. Josh is a big strong farmer of a QB. Living in farming country I can simply say people who grew up farmers are just built differently than others. Just because Cam's body broke down doesn't mean Josh's will, every human body can take different amounts of punishment. Josh also tends to give out the hits just as much as taking them, unlike Cam who would got destroyed over and over again. Below are some links on the subject. 

 

 Go ask any NFL executive if they want a 5th year Cam going forward at QB or a 5th year Josh and see what you get for an answer. No one is saying Cam. 

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/10/30/cam-newton-wants-to-talk-to-roger-goodell-about-horsecrap-hits/amp/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/larrybrownsports.com/football/nfl-under-scrutiny-hits-cam-newton-head/321473%3famp

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/video/2016/10/31/carolina-panthers-cam-newton-roger-goodell-officials-hit

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, SRQ_BillsFan said:

Josh is Josh Allen, he isn’t Cam that’s a lazy analogy started by the media. 
 

Josh is not a clone or a copy of Cam. He is much better. 

 

 Far better passer than Cam.

 

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

Would you trade Josh for him? 

 

Probably not.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 minutes ago, SRQ_BillsFan said:

Josh is Josh Allen, he isn’t Cam that’s a lazy analogy started by the media. 
 

Josh is not a clone or a copy of Cam. He is much better. 

Who said clone? 
 

And btw… one thing that is even lazier than a cam analogy is saying ‘that cam analogy is lazy, he’s one of a kind, nobody ever has been him”.  😂 

 

That’s some not changing the tv channel because the remote is too far away kind of sloth. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 If you watched Cam play and Josh play and can't see the difference in quality of QB play, I don't know what to tell you. As you can see, you're the only one who believes or agrees with what you are saying. How exactly is Josh's career 135 tds  59 ints anywhere near an identical average at the halfway point than Cam's 194/123? That's not even remotely close. And that's with Josh starting his career with 13 tds & 18 ints in his 1st 16 games, it's been 122 tds & 41 ints, since Josh's 3 int game against NE in early 2019.

 

Cam did win MVP and as I said, Josh's passing stats in 3 different years have been as good or better than that. Cam had Brady & Rodgers to beat out, there's a whole lot more competition at QB for MVP nowadays. Super Bowl vs no Super Bowl I never count because it has more to do with team, players and coaching vs what 1 player did. Couple of questions, statically who has the best playoff season ever by a QB? Who has the highest QB Rating in the playoffs for a career? Who has the best td to int ratio ever in a playoff career? 

Remind me again who holds the record for most tds in 1st 5 years in the league, that's right it was Cam, no it was Big Ben, no Tom Brady, no Mahomes, no Lamar, no Rodgers, no definitely Marino. Damn, I forgot who that was.

 

 Is it Josh's fault whatsoever we didn't win a Super Bowl last year? 48/62  637 yards, 77.4%,  9 tds  0 ints  QB Rating of 148.99 in just 2 games(Cam only has 10 passing tds combined in 7 career playoff games). Burrow only threw for 5 tds in 4 playoff games last year. Cam's career playoff QB Rating is a full 20 points lower than Josh's at 87.7 and Josh has already thrown more tds and 6 less ints than Cam's playoff career. Josh led Buffalo to 12 tds on 16 total drives last year in the playoffs. Scoring tds on 75% of ALL drives in the playoffs, a td percent that's never been seen before by a team in the postseason. But yup let's blame Josh for being superhuman and putting up passing numbers, that even the greatest of the greats have never accomplished, even when talking playoff careers. 

 

 As far as longevity is concerned, again I question just how much you watched Cam's games back in the day or rememberwhat happened. The difference in hits he took vs the hits Josh has taken are night and day. Adter the first year or 2 in the league Cam consistently got blown up all over the field, whether in the open field or in the pocket. So much so he started having meetings with the NFL higher ups and Goodell about it. Josh is a big strong farmer of a QB. Living in farming country I can simply say people who grew up farmers are just built differently than others. Just because Cam's body broke down doesn't mean Josh's will, every human body can take different amounts of punishment. Josh also tends to give out the hits just as much as taking them, unlike Cam who would got destroyed over and over again. Below are some links on the subject. 

 

 Go ask any NFL executive if they want a 5th year Cam going forward at QB or a 5th year Josh and see what you get for an answer. No one is saying Cam. 

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/10/30/cam-newton-wants-to-talk-to-roger-goodell-about-horsecrap-hits/amp/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/larrybrownsports.com/football/nfl-under-scrutiny-hits-cam-newton-head/321473%3famp

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/video/2016/10/31/carolina-panthers-cam-newton-roger-goodell-officials-hit

 

 

 

 

 Far better passer than Cam.

 

 

again the point is sailing so far over your head you can not see it.

 

Allen’s PLAYING STYLE is similar to Newton’s… average pass attempts, py per game, completions, rush attempts, and yard per game bear that out..  and that playing style has a longevity challenge.

 

JOSH ALLEN himself said this. So argue with him. What does he know. 
 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

10 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

again the point is sailing so far over your head you can not see it.

 

Allen’s PLAYING STYLE is similar to Newton’s… average pass attempts, py per game, completions, rush attempts, and yard per game bear that out..  and that playing style has a longevity challenge.

 

JOSH ALLEN himself said this. So argue with him. What does he know. 
 

 

 You didn't mention Cam reaching the Super Bowl or MVP u like Josh up thread in your response to me? Yeah, ok, act as though you were only talking longevity.

 

 Josh is simply telling the media exactly what's being told to him, has he changed his game? Don't you think he would if he thought that was the case. Actions always speak louder than words. If you noticed all the talk about him running has gone way down over the course of the last 2 seasons, why because he doesn't get hurt when he runs. On all 537 attempts. Besides 1 concussion in early 2019, he's only been hurt when he's been in the pocket. That's a fact.

 

 

 

[BigDingus]

Look, I've never thought Allen was as good as Mahomes. I know, kill me, I'm evil. 

 

But this is what is so annoyingly stupid about the NFL narrative & even the way fans talk- QB'S DO NOT PLAY AGAINST EACH OTHER!

 

It's Mahomes vs Bills Defense. Allen vs Chiefs defense.

 

Does Allen need to put up better numbers than Mahomes to win a game? NO! He needs to beat the Chiefs defense more than Mahomes beats the Bills defense!

 

Aside from the coin flip or post game, they will never be on the field at the same time!

 

So who cares if Mahomes is the best QB jn the league? The whole "3 phases" clichés exist for a reason. Allen or Burrow don't need to be the best ever, just better than opposing defenses on any given day.

 

/rant 😅

 

[Buffalo Junction]

19 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That puppy is going to piss all over Belichick this Sunday. I guess the biggest fear I have with Joe is the ages of his top 2 wrs. At 22 & 23, Chase and Higgins are going to be a problem. 

It’s all good for the Bengals until those guys have to get paid and Mike Brown has put all the guaranteed money in escrow.  

[Mikie2times]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

It’s all good for the Bengals until those guys have to get paid and Mike Brown has put all the guaranteed money in escrow.  

 

It really doesn't matter/ cash over cap

Edited January 7, 2023 by KzooMike

[PatsFanNH]

20 hours ago, KzooMike said:

The narrative is Mahomes and Allen, but only Burrow and Mahomes have reached a Super Bowl. Burrow has never lost to Mahomes. 

 

I stumbled across this video on Burrow and it really made me think.

 

 

One, I have eaten at the restaurant this is being filmed in. More importantly. Joe "Kool", he's not really Joe ____ . He just doesn't give that many F's. Which made me think of this video on you tube 

 

 

It's not that he's an elite leader, he's just indifferent to the noise because he knows its all just WWE and holy hell that has to matter in clutch moments.

 

Josh on the other hand is a puppy and that is not an insult. Outside of two-three countries we all love puppies. They're pure energy and enthusiasm but puppies will get too excited and piss on the carpet. Puppies have higher swings. They burn brighter and fade quicker. 

 

The video is intimidating, this guy actually makes me more nervous than Mahomes and the start of that game we didn't finish didn't ease my concerns.  

Mahomes — the #1 QB to many in the NFL, until last year the only person ever to beat him in the playoffs was Tom Brady.

 

Allen — Great QB and most have him as either 2 or 3 for QBs.  The team and Allen seem to get a little bit better each year but has a tough bill climb as he deals with #1 QB in Mahomes.

 

Burrows — Top 5 perhaps 3 or 2 depending on the “expert”. Seems to have that Clutch Jean come threw when needed.. made the SB in his 2nd year..  

 

if you think about it this could be the new trio in the AFC. We had Brady, Peyton, Big Ben with the Ravens popping up every so often lol. Maybe now we have Mahomes, Allen, Burrows who will be more successful? Only time will tell.