Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I've read it, but I don't believe that all of the people who are detained there were members of an unorganized force that the Convention claims are exempt from the protections provided within it. Seriously...I don't know where you're getting that from. I just reread the third and fourth Conventions last night, and it looked pretty clear to me. Members of a civilian militia of a signatory of the Convention regularly and openly carrying arms are covered. Al Qaeda doesn't fit that definition, as they are extra-national (hence not represented by a signator), and the Taleban arguably aren't covered because they never signed the damned thing (though I'll admit, I don't know if the Afghan government previous to the Soviet invasion signed or not, and I don't know that that commitment would or should carry over to the Taleban if they did.) In any event, as a taxpayer, I don't take issue with the gov't buying Quarans for Muslim detainees, and that's where I (think I) differ from some others here who seem to make it out to be a much more charitable act that it really is. 343458[/snapback] I don't take issue with that, either. Strikes me as a smart thing to do, and a very small investment for potentially great returns in demonstrating that the war is against terrorism and not Islam. Of course, for some here the war IS against Islam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Having said this, Newsweek was far too quick to cry wolf. The evidence for liberal bias in the mainstream press is irrefutable. It's been well documented by Bernard Goldberg in his book Bias. 343102[/snapback] Rather than taking the bias copout, my take on the Newsweek piece is that it is another expample of *LAZY* journalism that has unfortunately become the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Rather than taking the bias copout, my take on the Newsweek piece is that it is another expample of *LAZY* journalism that has unfortunately become the norm. 343502[/snapback] They usually end up being lazy when the stories are what they want them to be - i.e. anything to make the current administration and military look bad. Meanwhile, they'll jump through endless hoops not to offend terroris-, ERRRRRR, "militants." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Meanwhile, they'll jump through endless hoops not to offend terroris-, ERRRRRR, "militants." 343510[/snapback] "Freedom Fighters." Please get it straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I'd be interested in seeing the "bios" or "resumes" on all these abused prisoners. I don't doubt for a second that there are people there who maybe don't belong, but I bet the majority do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Yes, it is. 343015[/snapback] And is the US REALLY not maintaining minimal human standards? Are they breathing? Are they fed? Do they have clothes? Clean water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 And is the US REALLY not maintaining minimal human standards? Are they breathing? Are they fed? Do they have clothes? Clean water? 343740[/snapback] If they are being detained as POWs shouldn't they be treated as POWs under the Geneva Convention? If they are not POWs, is it not illegal for the US government to hold them and deny due process? Afterall, the Supreme Court has opined that the right to due process does indeed extend to any person, citizen or otherwise, who is detained by the government provided he is not a prisoner of war. IMO there's a glaring inconsistency going on there, and I don't see how it can be justified under the law of the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 If they are being detained as POWs shouldn't they be treated as POWs under the Geneva Convention? If they are not POWs, is it not illegal for the US government to hold them and deny due process? Afterall, the Supreme Court has opined that the right to due process does indeed extend to any person, citizen or otherwise, who is detained by the government provided he is not a prisoner of war. IMO there's a glaring inconsistency going on there, and I don't see how it can be justified under the law of the land. 343803[/snapback] What I personally think is happening, Chris...JMO, is that the conventions and the rules of land warfare were written for another time and another set of wars. 21st century warfare is incredibly more complex, and currently is more global than either of the two world wars. Just because people don't see it (past things like Iraq) doesn't mean it's not happening. What this means, to me-(the bizarre big picture guy) is that it is time to replace certain rules, guidelines, conventions, etc-with a set of policies that more reflect the times and situation we now live in. That has been happening "under the table" for quite sometime-often, to the benefit of all concerned-including our enemies. The problems are, as usual perceptions as advanced by a mass media looking for a buck-not truth, and too many politicians and hanger onners willing to exploit it. The simple fact of the matter is that for the most part, people are doing things a certain way for certain reasons with specific goals in mind. There are abuses, probably plenty. But, look up a few sites on prison rape, and see how conditions in American prisons-manned by union guards allow far more attrocities on a daily basis than anything going on within the military system. It's not a flavor of the week media subject, so it doesn't exist. You expect a machine the size of the US government to be perfect, and perfect by your rules? I hazzard to guess the VA Beach PD has had it's moments. but an entire National system has to always be perfect TO EVERYBODY in this polarized land to be worth a crap. I'm sorry in a way, but for the most part I'm not. I do wish that America, as a people would just back up, take a deep breath, stay away from the TV for one friggen week and think about what is truly important to them, and those they love. Then think about the impediments that those who are trying to provide that for them have to face...every...single...friggen....day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I'm sorry in a way, but for the most part I'm not. I do wish that America, as a people would just back up, take a deep breath, stay away from the TV for one friggen week and think about what is truly important to them, and those they love. Then think about the impediments that those who are trying to provide that for them have to face...every...single...friggen....day. 343827[/snapback] Great, great post. I do think the impediments that are faced in providing us with whatever we feel is important is very worthwhile, especially if the alternative is hypocritically trampling upon the same or similar things in people whose only crime is that they weren't born American. I have a real problem with that. I'm not naive enough to believe that it hasn't happened in the past, that it doesn't happen now, or that it won't happen in the future, but that doesn't mean I have to tolerate it based upon the fact it's my countrymen doing the trampling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Great, great post. I do think the impediments that are faced in providing us with whatever we feel is important is very worthwhile, especially if the alternative is hypocritically trampling upon the same or similar things in people whose only crime is that they weren't born American. I have a real problem with that. I'm not naive enough to believe that it hasn't happened in the past, that it doesn't happen now, or that it won't happen in the future, but that doesn't mean I have to tolerate it based upon the fact it's my countrymen doing the trampling. 343857[/snapback] I go back to my original mantra. We wouldn't have to do that to the degree we do, if "Government" were allowed to just make things work. You know I'm not talking out my ass, Chris. All I can hope for is that maybe a few folks here think about what we are writing today. But, we wil also trample...and sometimes being the big bully, we get taken down a notch. I'm just SO SICK AND TIRED of seeing the simplistic crap spewed by both sides. I find it incredible-yes, incredible that we haven't been taken over by "!@#$istan" thanks to our lack of understanding of most anything. Collectively. Crap, this is why I quit posting the last time. JA is going to be on me again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 What this means, to me-(the bizarre big picture guy) is that it is time to replace certain rules, guidelines, conventions, etc-with a set of policies that more reflect the times and situation we now live in. That has been happening "under the table" for quite sometime-often, to the benefit of all concerned-including our enemies. The problems are, as usual perceptions as advanced by a mass media looking for a buck-not truth, and too many politicians and hanger onners willing to exploit it. 343827[/snapback] And lest anyone try to argue "But these rules have worked for years! Why change them?": the Geneva Convention currently in effect is the Fourth Geneva Convention. There is a long tradition of changing the Convention to fit new situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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